was drivin down the road when my car just died on me, got it towed back to my house and checked a few things, i have got the fuel filter replaced 6 months ago, i can hear my fuel pump turn on when i turn the key a little bit, also checked the fuel pressure valve and was getting about 8psi, i think i might have very dirty fuel injectors??? sound right, was wondering if ne one had an opinion as to what to do, and how to dismantle my fuel injectors to clean, i would be greatful for any help, thanks


1991 v6 firebird, electronic fuel injection

 

8 psi is way to low for that engine. Your gonna need a new fuel pump.

 

opps must have missed a key not 8psi, i beleive it waseighter 18 or 28 one of the 2 but remember comparing the psi i got to my haynes manual and it was about adverage, so im pretty sure thats not my problem

 

When I went to look at (and buy) my 86 IROC about 3 yrs. back it would start up and idle for a few seconds before shutting down. The owner told me the fuel injectors needed to be cleaned (it had been sitting in the garage for a couple of years prior to me buying it. Anyway, I put a couple of bottle of fuel injector cleaner in it when I filled it up to come home and then a bottle every tank for 4 or 5 more fill ups and the problem went away. The only time the problem has popped up in the last year was when I was trying some Mobil 93 octane gas. After a couple of tankfulls the car would die at stoplights, stop signs, when you let off the gas, etc. It would take a couple of tanks of my old brand with fuel injector cleaner in each one to clear up the stalling problem. I run a can of fuel injector cleaner through it 3 or 4 times a year.

 

i did fill up my tank and put in 2 bottles of fuel injection cleaner, but only made it up the road befor it decided to crap out, but it dosnt matter if i did because i cant even keep my car started for more then a second, i dont think that would be enough time for the cleaner to cycle through and do and good, i guess the only thing i can do is take it apart and fix it, have never done this befor, ne one know where a walkthrough of it is?

 

I just replaced the fuel pump in my 2.8L MPFI '89 Camaro.
It would start up 'fine and dandy' and I could hear the fuel pump kicking in each time I hit the ignition.

I was getting 22# at the Schrader valve, which is just enough for it to: 1) run like crap, 2) stall and sputter, 3) make me believe that it wasn't a fuel pump issue.

I replaced my fuel pump w/ a MSD inline fuel pump and have NO more fuel management issues.

You've definitely got a fuel pump issue if you're getting under 35# fuel pressure at the valve.

Just my $.03 though.

 

ok lets just say its not my fuel pump, what do i have to do to clean the fuel injectors??? besides dumping cleaner into my tank?

 

Forget the injecters your not getting the fuel delivery you need. Get the delivery solved before you start thinking about plugged injecters.

 

well i checked my fuel pressure today again, was at 43 PSI, what should i do next?

 

Find out why it's fluctuating between 18 or 28 and 43.

 

fuel pump is good tested several time, except for the first time they werer between 40-43psi, must have messed up that first time, now that i have found that it is not my fuel pump is there anyone out there who get help me on as to what to check next,??????????

 

hey man did you ever thing that it may not be fuel related at all

i had a problem like that and it turned out to be my coil

go figure

 

by coil u mean ignition coil correct, going to go and pick up one today see if it solves my problems

 

well bad news, i put in a new ignition coil still has not solved my problem anymore suggestions??? i am desperate

 

Fuel Pressure Regulator... ???? You said the pressure was erratic at best. Just a shot in the dark....

 

I take it it died while it was in motion, not at a light or something of that matter? If it were in motion (like I'm assuming it is), what did it do before it died? Did it just up and die without warning? Or did it kind of sputter, choke, and die off?

And like above, make sure your regulator is fully functional.

 

yeah i was driving and it diddnt just stop dead, happened while i was driving not at a stop, it sputtered and what not then died, and how would i check my fuel pressure regulator???

 

take the vac line off and smell it

if it smells like gas then it is shot

but i dont thing that would cause your problem

 

Module in bottom of distributor. Disconnect and take to parts store, say Autozone, and they can test it. Sounds like maybe that's the problem if not fuel related.

 

well now i have also tryed replacing my cap and rotor, and my ignition modual, still not working, its sounds like it want to stay on, cause now that i replaced those things it stays started longer but still sputters and dies, i also checked my plugs and i am getting spark, i dont know what to do next, someone please help, thanks

P.S. also the second i give it gas, it dies immediatly, and if i try to start it with my foot on the gas it wont turn over at all, but the moment i let my foot off the gas it starts, then sputters and dies

 

If you havent driven your car in like a year or something, your gas could possibly be bad...

It is definetly fuel related from the sound of how it "sputtered" and died. If it was electronically related then your car would have just shut down.

I'm sure you have probably done this already, but incase you havent... have you changed your fuel filter? It could be clogged or messed somehow that it lets the car prime gas when key is turned, but not when car is actually started.

I think it's your fuel pump man. Maybe the electronic portion of the fuel pump, could be a semi-grounded wire or something that will prime, but not run when ran from the alternator.

 

ok heres a list of what ive done so far, igniftion coil, ignition modulator, plugs and wire check, checked injectors with light, also tore them out and had em cleaned, maf sensor replaced, fuel pressure checked, at 44 PSI, replaced fuel filter ne how just for kicks, replaced cap and rotor, i am about out of idea's, but now when i start her she sputters for like 30 seconds like she wants to stay on but then eventually dies, any ideas im desperate, someone please help!!!!!!!!!!

 

ohh yeah, i dont think it would be my fuel pump, seeing as how im getting 44-45 PSI, during start up, and shile it sputters and stalls it stays between 44-45, one of my friends was saying something about a valve of somesort at the fuel pump, ne one know what that might be???

 

Probably talking about the pulsator. Just a diaphram deal that smoothes out the fuel flow. If it goes bad the pressure will drop quickly, but since your're getting good pressure it's not the problem. Mine does this too, but restarts and runs great when it gets its mind made up. I suspect something is out of sync, maybe too much air through the IAC and since the ECM is running off the factory program in open loop, it just leans out. Think GM technology was way behind their applications in these years. Probably still is today.

 

so what could i do about that, anything i can do to check my pressure??? if not do i have to replace the ECM??? cause i am getting 2 codes, 34 and 53, and the 2 of them point to the ECM, and if i do have to replace my computer, any reccomendations????

 

Doubt it's the computer, but if you replace it don't go near Autozone. Think their's has a rebuilt sticker put on them and out they go, had a couple that were trash and once you trade in your old one ($90 core charge) it's gone. You checked into the security system on your car? Could be shutting it down, the Vats deal actually shuts off the injectors if something isn't right.

 

well sometimes i do have a problem with my vats, but when that happens i usually dont get anything, car wont even try to start, but at this point im willing to try anything, so how woul i go about disableing my vats??

P.S. checks the price on ECM's at auto zone they upped there core to 160$$

 

well car still isnt working, just replaced my TPS, also exchanged my maf sensor that i bought for another one, thought i might have had a bum one, also checked all my vacume hoses they are all getting good vacume, running out of options, getting a new ECM this week will let yall know if it works

 

I've had similar (though less extreme) problems myself caused by tons of things (mostly mentioned above), but the Cat convertor (if blocked) or even muffler (depends what it's made from) could cause it to start and stall (depends how badly blocked) - but you'd probably be able to hear it as it'd "sound" a bit bunged up. You could try temporarily by-passing the cat with a bit of exhaust pipe to test that theory...

 

well i got a new ECM, wasnt it made no difference, so im shooting blindly, figure illgo out and get a new starts for s**ts and giggels, figure ive wasted enough money on this problem why not go wate some more, will give you another update soon

 

Sounds like you've gotten yourself stuck firmly in the "maybe it's this, maybe it's that" rut; and it'll just keep taking all your money, until you accidentally replace the bad part. Which, if you put off changing the fuel pump, could be quite a while; you might end up replacing ¾ of the car one piece at a time, instead of the ½ of the car that most people go through before they figure out that trying to fix a car that way doesn't work.

Put your fuel pressure gauge on it such that you can see it while the motor is running; and watch the pressure while it's doing its "sputtering" thing. Reading the pressure while it's behaving isn't going to tell you anything. You need to catch it in the act.

If I was the betting kind, I'd bet that you'd see the FP start to drop off, and when it gets down a few pounds, it'll start doing its thing.

Use logic and common sense to troubelshoot a probelm like that (or any problem, for that matter). It'll get you alot farther than troubleshooting with a shotgun like you're doing now.

In the meantime, I don't see the fuel filter mentioned anywhere; I'd suggest replacing it anyway, as it's part of normal maintenance that's supposed to be done regularly. And of course, even as "maybe it's this, maybe it's that" parts go, it's a pretty cheap and easy one to swap.

 

to answer your question RB, yes, yes someone has

If you're willing to replace your ECM, atleast spend the 15 dollars or less for a fuel pressure gauge and do like RB said. We're all here to help you man, but over half of us have said fuel pump already and you've shrugged it off. Please, just to appease to all of us... test to see how your fuel pump is acting when this sputtering occurs, it cant hurt anything, even your wallet lol

 

i have checked my fuel pressure multiple times, from the second i turn the key to when it dies it stays between 42-45 PSI, and i did replace my fuel filter just for s**ts and gigels, today ima but my new starter and battery in, i had my battery testes, wouldnt hold a charge, that could be my problem, a very good friend of mine said that hes 99% sure it is my EGR valve, anyone also have the same opinion, cause they arnt cheap, dnot wanna go blow the money on that if its not needed, also wanted to know if it is could i use one out of a 88 chevy s-10 pickup, v6 4.3 liter carb

 

well guys i replaced my started and battery, not my problem, figured it wasnt, but its a good thing cause the starter whas shot, but i did take off my EGM sensor valve, got it tested at a shop, guy said my selenoid (s) were shot, ne one know where i could get a cheaper digital EGM sensor for a 91 Bird V6 3.1???

 

My car used to do something similar. It wasn't near as bad as what you describe, but sometimes while driving, I could hear a change in the engine sound, then if I tried to hit the gas, the car would just fall to maybe 250 RPM's, but wouldn't die. If I stopped, let it sit for 30 secs or so it would start to go ok again. This was also related to my hard start condition. What did it end up being? Crap gas from the previous owner clogged the fuel filter and injectors. It was fairly obvious when I put the fuel pressure guage on the thing, pressurized the system, then watched it fall to ~5psi within about 7 minutes. Leaking made it hard to start the next time, and sometimes a bad spray pattern, i.e. not spraying at all, more like dripping, caused it to not get any power. Sent the injectors out to cruizenperformance who cleaned, and flow matched the injectors, replaced the fuel filter, and replaced the fuel pressure regulator, tested by blocking off the line that returns to the fuel tank, you should expect >50psi with that....I think I still have the Helm Service manual page for testing the system....anyways, after all of that, I never had a problem. I have since sold that motor and switched to an LT1


Getting the injectors off is a snap. Pull the plenum and intake runners, I think its a total of ~12 bolts, all of them Torx bolts (The star pattern driver). Disconnect the fuel lines from the fuel rails. There is 1 on each side, are aluminum, and if you looked at them head on, you would see a hole with a star pattern around it. Disconnect the injector wires from the injectors. Pull the clips out, save the clips! the injectors will pop right out of the rails now. Dry them, wrap them in paper towels, bok them up, with some peanuts and ship them off. While they're away, if the regulator needs to be replaced, now is the time to do it, and might as well get an adjustable one from somewhere. I think it was 8 or 9 bolts around the top of the regulator, pop the old one off, and the new one on. You might need some pentrating oil to get the bolts out. I stripped a head and had to get some bolt removers to get the last one out....I also took the time to polish the outside of my plenum and TB just for an extra shine 2 weeks later, I was back on the road doing fine, no problems, no codes. Before that I had replaed the O2 sensor, knock sensor, cap and rotor, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember, so I know how you feel!

 

well i got a new EGR, i think i have somewhat fixed my problem, not the car stays started a little longer, really hard sputtering, and i am getting backfires from my throttle body, migth that have something to do with my timing, or perhaps because i got a new TPS, i dont know if it has to be tweaked, or how to do it, if any one can plase help, also how do i go about checking my timing, i think itll be hard figureing as my car wont stay started, i ran a diag on it, getting codes 15, 43, 53, and 46, thanks for the help

 

I had almost the same problem, backfires and the like. I eventually checked my spark off the coil with a timing light and it would spark while it was turning over and then the sparking would become intermittant and then nothing. I replaced the pickup coil on the dist because the resistance changed as I rolled the wires in my fingers (as per factory service manual). I also replaced the ignition coil at the same time for good luck. Problem solved.

Of course I had changed the cheaper stuff like plugs, wires, cap and rotor and ignition module already.

 

i have also replaced, cap rotor, wires, plugs, ignition module, ignition coil, i beleive its my timing, i just went and got a light, so ima check it right now, ne one know what the factory specs are for timing?? and where the cap hold down bolt is located????

 

I have heard of a clogged catalytic converter causing the symptoms you're describing. Don't know of an easy way to test though.

 

well hrmmmm, i did check my timing, at least i think i did it right, but the notchs that appear when timing light is flashing arnt even near the notches that they would need to line up with, but the problem is i cant rotate my cap, the hold down bolt is so buried that i cant get to it with the tools i have, dose anyone know of a special tool they make for this cause otherwise im stranded again, ohh and i am getting addiquit exhaust flow, already checked that, took off my caddy and ran a straight pipe, same response

 

No special tools needed, just a 15mm socket, a universal joint (swivel adapter), a 7" extension, and a ratchet.

First bring the #1 cylinder up to top dead center of the compression stroke. For your V6, the #1 cylinder is the frontmost PASSENGER SIDE cylinder. That's just for the 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6's!! Remove the #1 plug with engine cold. Remove the igntion coil wire between the spark coil and distributor cap. Put a rag (not paper towel) or your finger over the #1 plug hole. Turn the crankshaft clockwise with a breaker bar until either the rag blows out, or you feel pressure on your finger.

Then put a phillips head screwdriver straight into the spark plug hole so you touch the piston. Turn the crankshaft slowly clockwise. When the screwdriver stops raising, stop turning the crankshaft. Now look at your balancer. The cut in the balancer SHOULD be lined up with 0 degrees on your timing indicator. If it's not, then you need a new balancer! [edit] Our balancers are composed of a center steel hub, a rubber isolation ring, and an outer metal ring. The rubber can deteriorate, and that causes the outer metal ring to slip- and that can cause you to set the timing wrong because the timing mark is stamped on the outer metal ring of the balancer.

The spec for timing is 10 degrees advanced (BTDC). If you still have an emission sticker on your hood, it's listed there. Remember to disconnect the EST (electronic spark timing) bypass connector. This is buried in the plastic wire loom that runs in front of your heater motor (passenger side firewall), and it's a tan wire with a black stripe. Ignition off, disconnect the wire. Now start the car (it'll be rough to start up and rough when it runs) and check your timing. When you're done setting your timing, turn the car off and plug the EST bypass connector back together. NOTE: If you check timing with the EST still connected, yes, the timing will be way off the scale.

Other things...

You don't need to adjust your TPS. Your 3.1 computer self-adjusts the TPS.

Wiggle test: Start the motor. Wiggle the harness wires (NOT the coil-to-cap wire) at the ignition coil, see if the motor stalls. If not, wiggle the wire from your fuel pump/computer fuse. This is under the hood, on the passenger side's upper frame rail, near the front of the engine bay. It's a weatherproof fuse holder just bolted with a single 7mm screw to the upper frame rail. Just separate the fuse holder from the upper frame rail (single clip) and shake it around. This connects to the positive junction block on the passenger side of the radiator support. If the connection at the junction block goes bad or gets corroded, the 12 volts to your computer will be intermittant, and can cause you to stall out. This happened to me, all I had to do was change the ring connector (crimp-on) and I was good to go.

Yes a bad EGR could cause stalling, especially if it was sticking. Scenario goes something like this: Motor cold, runs great as you drive around down. If you stay under 45 mph, the car runs great all day. As soon as you go above 45 with the engine warm, the EGR kicks in. When you slow down, the EGR should shut off- but although the computer turns off the EGR, the EGR valve itself is sticking, so it stays open. When you come to a stop, the car stalls. It's hard to start until the vibration makes the EGR snap shut.

I don't have my book handy to look up those codes; they're not familiar to me so I don't remember 'em. Maybe someone's got their GM manual next to 'em, and can help you out.

Oh, and make sure you are using the correct cylinder for your timing light! #1 is front passenger side for a 3.1 V6! That's opposite of all the V8's!

 

any suggestions for getting space to use rag and finger to the #1 spark plug, theres a mounting bracket right in the way whitch would make it very hard to do these suggestions, i just dont wanna take off ne thing i dont need to, thanks for suggestions as wel , ill will try em all out once this dang rain stops

 

well i went and replaced my coolant temp sensor, was getting code 15, it really help my car, i actually got her started, she ran fine for a few minutes, regular idle, a little smoke from the exhaust, but otherwise i had thought she was fixed, but nope, after i let her idle for 10-15 minutes, started her back up and bam im back at square one, starts, sputters, then stalls, RPM bounced from 500-600 for about 15-30 seconds, then she dies, i dont know what would have casue it to go from running, back to taht within 30 minutes, ne ideas or suggestions, thanks, o yeah reset mycodes, now shes poppingup with a code 33, MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor voltage low - pressure low/vacuum high OR MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor signal low - flow high, i have replaced the map sensor2 times already, and i am getting perfect vacume, i have tryed disconnecting it (vacume and power) and it dosnt change ne thing with idle, so im heading out and get something to check the power to my MAP sensor...............o yeah and im getting backfires from my intake manifold, i just used a test light on my map sonsor clip, no lights..............

 

yet another update, i have gone out and exchanged my tps sendor, was getting TPS code, i have now gotten rid of that code, and have got my car to the point where it will start, surge to 1100 rpm, then drop and bounce 500-600 extremly rough idle, it will stay that way as long as i dont touch the gas, but the second i give it any gas she will stall, i still think it is my MAP sensor, got a test light , and my ground is good getting a light on with that, but when i test the pulse and constant, nothing, i tryed following the wire, but cannot , its like a jungle with those wires, so i guess my question is, where do both the constant and pulse lead to???
a pic would be great, do have a pic but its not of my year/engine so it diddnt help much, thanks, o yeah also getting codes 33 and 35