booboosean

I'm in the process of installing a BB Chevy in my 89 Camaro.

I'm starting a new string because I haven't seen anyone try this combination yet. I got so disgusted looking for swap headers, I started looking for other applications to fit. I bought a set of Patriot H8012s (raw in case I had to modify $175.00) and was surprised to see they are going to fit a lot easier than I thought. The main interference problem I've encountered is on the passenger side (of all things) with the collector flange, but appears to be something I can fix with a BFH. The driver's side practically dropped right in. Next week I'll post some pictures of the minor mods I'm making to get these headers to work.
I was surprised, for the money, this is a pretty high quality set of headers.
Pictures soon.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That is interesting. Usually 1st-2nd gen stuff doesn't cut it for use in 3rd gens. I've been considering a set of theirs for the '57, but they don't have anything (yet) 3rd gen specific.

Pics would be appreciated.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

any more info on the headers?

booboosean

I've taken the motor back out of the car in order to access the engine bay better to make the mods. One of the mods I had to make so far was an interference with the driver's side upper piece of the engine mount. This baffled me, because I had a 77 Camaro with a big block and could have sworn the mounts were the same. Nevertheless, one of the tubes hit the mount. No big deal though, I was able to grind away part of the mount and make the clearance adjustment (took about 10 minutes). I will include pics of this too. Been working 60 hours a week and have not had a chance to take the pics or work on the car for that matter. Hopefully this weekend. I am documenting each mod and tracking the time to complete so I can pass on some accurate info. to anyone who wants to go this route.

V12Camaro

Just adding my interest to this post.I'm gonna be doing a 454/T-56 swap into my 89. I really need to see pics of the header situation. That's one of my points of contention. Have you gotten as far as trying to close the hood on the motor? I really hate the 4" cowl hoods, but if I have to use one, I guess I will.
I'll be using a tube K member, and I'm already planning on ripping out the A/C box, as well as going to rack and pinion steering and Manual brakes.

booboosean

I agree on the 4 inch cowl hood, they are a bit much. It all depends on the intake manifold you use. If you use a stock type dual plane, the stock hood should work. But, if you plan on running a tall single plane (Dart, Brodix, etc.) you'll end up using a taller hood.
With that tubular k-member, your header choices will grow. Those things free up all kinds of space. There's a guy on this forum, I think he goes by "greezemonkey" that has that tubular crossmember installed in his car with a BBC. He has supplied good pics in the past. I'm having trouble getting my pic files small enough to attach. I have a few pics ready to post but have to work with them. Hopefully soon I can post them.

V12Camaro

Would you feel like emailing them to me? Camarogenius@yahoo.com I just want to see some good pics of the headers, because I want to make some decisions while I'm still tearing down. Like, Should I just forget about the stock motor mounts all together and go with block plates?

booboosean

Yes, I will e-mail you some pics. Give me a day to get on a faster computer to upload.
I don't know about your motor mounts with that tubular k-member. In my situation (stock k-member), I used the small block mounts and installed some poly inserts on the frame mounts. Everything worked out great.

V12Camaro

Also, I was wondering, how does the extra weight of the big block affect handling? Any understeer problems in hard cornering? Or does it cause oversteer? I'd rather have oversteer, so at least I hit the wall with the rear, rather than head on.

booboosean

It depends on how much weight you are going to remove off the front end. In my case, I will not gain any weight with the big block because I removed the entire A/C and Heater system, and moved the battery to the back. If you do not remove anything, you will gain between 150 and 170 lbs depending on your combo.

booboosean

Pass Side. Note the flange location. This is where it's hitting the fire wall a little.

booboosean

This is the driver's side motor mount after a little grinding and repainting.

booboosean

This shows the header installed and where the tube runs next to (through) the modified motor mount.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I think you've come up with something here. Considering the modifications required just to put headers on a small block, grinding away that much of the engine mount is nothing. And, considering the amount of hammering I did to the transmission hump of that '75 Vega just to get a V6 in, the passenger side interference seems insignificant.

The Exhaust forum should see this, too.

(Wonder if they'd fit in the '57...)

booboosean

Yeah. I think I've got the driver's side licked. I'm going to work on the pass side this weekend and put the motor back in for a test fit. I don't think it's going to take that much hammering. Probably a lot less if i'd cut off the bolt-up flange and just weld or slip on a 3-inch collector. I'm not the kind of person that likes to modify things with a hammer, but in this case, I think it's ok. You won't be able to see it from the top anyway. Most of it will be out of sight.

zNucleaRz

So hows the passenger side coming?

Daz

iTrader: (1)

You were probably using BBC mounts..I used all BBC stuff and its a flush

edit: I missed the part where you were using a non-stock k-member..Which K-member is that? Cause I already made an offer on a K-member/coil over conversion from PA racing.I am using Hooker swap headers though

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I dont even notice the difference versus when I had the small block..I have an 87 IROC with Bilstein shocks and cut BZX springs(half coil)..

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

now which headers are those exzactly? if those take minimal mods to put in. i think ill dump the money for those for my 496 project bbc i got in my garage. also do u know the size of the primary tubes?

those look almost the same as the Sanderson big block shorty headers they have for the 2nd gens.

SSC

Ive got the same set of Patriot headers for my Malibu but mine are coated. I did think they looked like they might work on the bird but havet botherd to check, now I know.

ckeene502

booboo sean...glad to see someone from north AL on here.. i live in elkmont. i am also in the process in putting a big block in my 89. i went with the hooker headers that are coated . wish i saw your set up first or i would have gone that direction.

keene

booboosean

You were probably using BBC mounts..I used all BBC stuff and its a flush

No, the mounts are the ones that came off the 305 I pulled out of the car.

The Pass side is coming. I took the time while the motor was back out to install the Energy Suspension poly motor mount inserts. That was a bear, but it's done (fun fishing the nuts through the K-member). I'm thinking about cutting the bolt-on flange off in favor of a slip-on. This would clear up almost all the room I need (minimal hammering).

The Part number is H8012 Patriot (in first post).

zNucleaRz

I read on Patriots Site these headers are 1 3/4? is this right?

booboosean

I haven't put a dial caliper on the tubes to double check, but you are right, they are listed as 1 3/4. They look bigger than that though. The primary size didn't concern me as long as it was at least 1 3/4. The biggest impression I got from the headers is the thickness of the flange. You can see by the photos, it's very thick. Very well made (especially for the price).

booboosean

Hey ckeene502, sorry I didn't reply earlier.

We'll have to talk on the side and exchange "war stories" about our projects. When we're done, we can meet at Huntsville Dragway and kick some import butt!!

FaSStcars

Are these headers you can buy from Summit or Jegs? Were can I find the information on what accesory brackets I can use. I am converting a 92 camaro and the car already has a 6spd. My 454 is a late 80's model so I need to update the accessories drives, get a flywheel, and exhaust.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Understeer all the way if you use iron heads..I would think that using aluminum heads would keep the handling you have now with a small block, but I can`t tell you for sure- because my first born has not sold yet so that I can afford to buy the aluminum heads.

Good job on the headers though! I`m glad to see someone experimented..I know I went with the "fool proof" way... to you! although shorties on a BBC might be less than "optimium" but hey- it`s better than cast iron on it!

Hookers are 1 7/8 and those are tiny for a good 550-600 pony motor....

zrotten

I spent the big bucks and went with the big tube
LEMONS HEADERS. I do have to mention that you have to cut the wheel wells open for two tubes to run down and under to the slip on 4 inch collectors. It took about two hours to make the opennings look show quality(even and deburred). After fitting and double checking all was good , off to JET-HOT!
If any onewants some pics send me your email

OH the best part about these headers, each pipe is seperate and can be installed while the BBC is in the car!!!!

MCas7

I used the Hooker BBC headers for my swap. They are 1-7/8" primaries by the way. I am running into a bit of a clearance problem with mine though because my heads have exhaust ports that are raised a bit. I'm just going to have to do some massaging of the passenger's side frame rail. It also hits on the steering shaft a little, but nothing too major.

FaSStcars

Anyone running a serpentine belt set up on a big block? I want to use my stock accesories.

zrotten

I do run stock water pump and pulley ,PS , ALt (not serpentine)
1/2spacer Flex-a-Lite SS fan ALUM Summit rad I also have 8" x 2'' deep fan shroud on my trans and engine cooler that pulls loads of air.
Engine never goes over 195 street on long hauls. (685HP) No Nos
Rotten

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I tried one from a 90SS454 its the brackets/pulleys are hitting everything on the sides

FaSStcars

So Daz the 90 ss truck stuck does not work then? Is that what your saying. Just curious will the crank and water pump pulley work off the truck. I can weld new brackets for everything else. Sorry I wasn't clear rotten I wanted to run my serp belt accesories from the camaro on the 454. I still want to run my AC and all that stuff and don't want to replace the accesories with v-belt style unless I have to.

FaSStcars

So Daz the 90 ss truck stuck does not work then?

So Daz the 90 ss truck stuff does not work then? Is what I meant to say........

Daz

iTrader: (1)

Now it doesnt.The serpentine brackets for the accesories sits too wide.Its hitting the frame rails.It also sits higher than the stock.Yes you can use the crank I dunno about the waterpump.IIRC the waterpump is just the type that sits behind the groove of the pulley so the belt really has nothing to hold on to.IMO youre better off selling the serpentine set if you have it the old BBC guys pay good money for them. I sold mine.

german-motorsport

MCas7 what did you pay for the manual brake kit?

booboosean

Ok, I finally got time to work on my car this weekend. I ended up putting the motor in and taking it out a couple of times. The first pic is one of the dent under the firewall on the pass side after about 10 minutes of "careful" metalwork (hammering).

booboosean

Here it is painted (paint still wet). in case anyone was wondering, you can't see it from the top.

booboosean

I put the motor back in and put the header in from the top. Very easy without the spark plugs. Just drops right in.

booboosean

Here's a shot from underneath without the transmission installed.

booboosean

Here's a shot of the driver's side. The only mod here was to the motor mount (in an earlier pic). As you can see, there is plenty of clearance for everything. The lower control arm mount has about an inch and the steering shaft about the same. It slid up from the bottom.

booboosean

For anyone who hasn't had experience with them before, I installed some poly motor mounts while I had the motor out, and they raised the motor about a half inch. The directions in the package said to check hood clearance before closing the hood. I didn't think much of it, then realized as I work on this car, every half inch counts. I don't need the "duhs"!!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

wow, so no modifications to the headers themselves?

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

WOW that looks great i know which headers i get for my bbc when i finish it. that just made my decistion about which ones to get and yet ill still be able to do what i wnat with my car now. sweet.

booboosean

No, I haven't had to change the headers at all. I bought them "raw" in case I had to cut them and it turned out that I didn't have to. Of course you've noticed that I do not have an A/C box, so I don't know about clearance in that instance. All Patriot would have to do to make these fit is turn down the exit on the pass side. I think I'll send them pics too. Maybe they'll take it seriously (especially since I've already made mine work) who knows.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

good info!!..Did you measure the clearance between the firewall and the flange.Also the clearance on the frame reails/tubes.Im thinking what would happen once it settles,engine shake/vibrations or body twist..

zrotten

Are those poly mounts? If they are, that clearence is to close.
You might want to use a set of Moroso solid SBC mounts.
Thats what I used for BBC. Also take the torches to the k-member and cut a small slot for a box wrench to slip right in there, makes the job go real fast.
Rotten

booboosean

Yes they are poly "inserts" and I have no concerns about the tubes being too close to them. The pics are kinda deceiving, there's more clearance there than you think and they are protected by the metal housing they reside in.
I had solid mounts in a street car once------once and never again.

There's enough room to get your fingers between the flange and the subframe rails. The flange can also be turned to the optimum position. Unless the engine settles up, the tubes aren't in any danger of hitting the firewall. Also, the engine torque should be the opposite direction lifting the driver's side up. If this turns out to be an issue, I guess I'll get my hammer back out. Hey, it can be as tight or loose as you want it. I noticed that after I dented the subframe rail and installed the header, it wasn't really necessary. The firewall/floorpan were the real issue.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

i think this should be sticky'd so who ever wants/is goin to do a bbc swap and dont want long tubes they can go this route and make things easier.

FaSStcars

Those headers worked out great. So all you had to do is massage the floor on the passenger side and trim the motor mounts right? I never heard you mention were you could get these headers.