Hey guys...

My '85 T/A LG4 5-speed is my first carbeurated automobile... Been using EFI cars since i started driving.

Was wondering if it's normal for the car to take 3 or 4 trys to start every time. I ran the car for the first month in Massachusetts, it was starting on the 2nd try every time. I drove it down to florida (dramatic change in heat & humidity) and now it takes 3, 4, and sometimes even 5 times to start.

What gives?

 

Do you pump the gas once before you turn the key?

 

yep

 

Loosen the fuel line and see if it pees out a bit. If so you have good pressure. Also how good is your cap, rotor, and wires? A tuneup would be a good idea if you haven't done it yet.

 

Had a tune up last month, shortly after i picked up the car.... I'll check the fuel line, don't know 'bout the rest.

My inclination is to think it has something to do with this heat & humidity, like a sticky choke plate or something--- i was having no problem whatsoever gettin her to start in cold Massachusetts... this sound feasable to you guys?>

 

Any black smoke out the tail pipe while you try to start it? That will tell us if it too much fuel or not enough. First thing in the morning with the engine cold, remove the air cleaner and look at the choke. If you pump the throttle once, it should shut. Have someone start the car and the choke should open just a little bit and the idle should be fairly high(don't look straight down into the carb). I would guess the choke is sticking shut or sticking open. If you aren't getting any smoke, you might try 2 or 3 pumps before starting it.

 

SO i have no black smoke, and the choke plate is working fine. Sound feasable that fuel could be leaking back into the tank rather than staying primed? After it starts once in the morning it will run fine all day long thereafter, even one minute after it starts in the AM.

 

Shouldn't matter that much about the fuel in the line. The carb will hold enough to idle for quite a while. The first couple of times when it dies in the morning, how long does it run before it dies? A few seconds or just barely even starts to run? Do you have a fast idle when you get it going?

 

It DOESN"T start in the morning... Up around the 4th time, it sputters for a second and dies, then kicks up on the 5th try just like normal...

 

TA,

Try pumping the pedal SLOWLY to set the choke and stroke the accel pump. Pump it TWICE, and see if that makes any difference.

Lemme know in the morning.

 

Vader, didn't get your message till now, i'll try that 2morrow...


So the events of today:

Pulled spark plug # 8, looks just fine... Took the air cleaner off and manually pumped the throttle looking in to see if any gas squirted in. No gas squirted in, but i did hear a sucking noise-- as if it was trying to suck gas but not doing a very good job.

SO just for kicks i continued to pump it... A LOT.. at least 30 times. Never saw any gas go in. So i got in the car, pumped it a couple more times with the petal, turned the key, and it caught for a second.. Pumped it a few more times, turned the key, pumped it while the engine was turning over and it caught on the 2nd try!

So is there an in-line fuel filter in b/t the pump and the carbeurator that i might check for a clog or any other suggestions? Luckily it turns out to be a good old fashion not getting gas problem rather than igntion

 

i know nothing about carbs yet but i know that if you worked the throttle for that long it should have flooded it bad...a buddy of mine has a truck with a 350 and carb and when you work the throttle it squirts out a good stream...might want to check the fuel filter than possibly the pump

 

That's what I expected... It's now starting the 2nd try every time, after i pump the gas w/the pedal extensively... 15-20 times (continuing to pump while turning the key..)

 

You might have a bad excellarator pump. It should be flooded after 10 pumps if it works right.

 

It may be leaking fuel from the carb down into the intake overnight and evaporating. You would end up with a dry carb in the morning. First thing in the morning, look down in the carb(hold the choke open) and pump it like..well just pump it a bunch of times. You should see a whole lot of fuel dumping into the carb. Then get it started and run it for a few minutes, then again pump and see if it dumps a bunch of fuel--if it still doesn't squirt fuel now the accelerator pump isn't working. If it does pump a bunch of fuel after you run it for a few minutes, and it doesn't pump right away--you may have an empty carb in the morning.

 

OR, the check valve in the filter in the carb is gone. Don't know for sure if that will or won't allow the carb to drain back into the fuel line, but it's a quick check and fix if it is. All it is is a little flap in the filter I believe.
The accelerator pump being bad would cause drivability problems too, like a bad lean stumble.

Later,
Jeremy

 

So....

Where are we at now?

 

Where are we at now? Well, we're kinda at a stand still as i have not had the time or money to do any work on it....

I have it starting first time every morning now--- But i'm still pumping it litterally 20 times. I'm going to start by changing the fuel filter... if that doesn't do anything it's on to the pump.

 

Welll, i replaced the fuel filter today.. Old one was completely un-obstructed; However, The tiny check-valve type thing right at the front of the new filter was not on the old filter... We will check 2morrow morning to see if this was allowing the carb to drain back down over night...

 

That seems to have done it! Only takes 5 pumps or so to start up in the morning now.. I guess that little check-valve type thing was allowing gas to drain out of the carb overnight.

on to the next project!

 

I'm assumin' your LG4 has the mechanical fuel pump like mine... I was having starting problems JUST like yours... and I took about the same route. After I replaced my fuel filter, the car started, but it still has this stumble. Give it anywhere near full throttle and the engine bogs down.. So I had the bright idea to replace my fuel pump.

No brainer... except now the car won't start at all. The point being, when I loosen the fuel line off the carb, gas should leak out right? Is that only after I pump the accelerator or is that any time no matter what?

With the original filter, I had no gas leaking out when I disconnected the line. After I replaced the filter (before I replaced the pump), I disconnected the line again and I did have fuel leak out. Now I've replaced the pump and I'm back to no fuel leaking out.

Now if I hold the choke plate open and manually pump the throttle (on the carb so I can watch) I should see gas squirting in? Is there any other way I can check to see if the pump is working if I cant start the car?

When I installed the pump the only thing I could've possibly done wrong is not have the push rod properly seated on the rocker arm on the pump, but it matched up and I think it's fine...

I want to drive my car! AHH!

James

 

Will your car run after it starts for the first time in the morning? (and start on a regular basis thereafter?) I ask because that's what's happening with me-- it's just a morning thing, as if fuel is draining out of the carb over night & i need to re-prime it. After the first start (of pumping the gas 6-12 times) she'll start on the first hit all day long.
The fuel pump replacement wound up really just being a partial fix-- It somewhat solved the problem; i don't have to pump it 15-20 times to make her start; now it's just 6-12. But that is still too many. I'm thinking accelerator pump next.

dps8315, have you replaced your accelerator pump?

 

6-12 times is still too much. Not sure what kind of carb you have but there is more than likely another filter where the fuel line goes to the carb. Check that as well. After 4 you should start to have a problem with flooding. What kind of carb are you using? I would check to see if your fuel bowls are tight, holley that is. Q-jet I would make sure that the topis is tight to the carb. I know nothing about eld. It is hard to say without being there. still sounds like your fuel bowls are empty, but not the line to the carb.

 

I'm running just the stock q-jet carb. The in-line fuel filter in b/t the pump & the carb is the one that I replaced... if there is another one, i'm unaware of it. I'll go buy the proper torx bit (why do they use so much g*dd*mn torx? did someone @ GM have something in their religion against philips head?) and make sure the carb is tightened up.

 

TA,

When the car did start, it didn't really make it any better later on during the day, so we've probably got a different problem. That inline filter is the only one I'm aware of, and I think it's the one 88Bravo is talking about. And personally, I like Torx... just not the HUGE ones for the seat-belt bolts...those are a PITA.

I've actually got no fuel to my bowls right now so I'm assuming I messed up the fuel pump install somehow... going to re-install it later. Haven't touched the accelerator...

Have you gotten any SES codes through any of this TA? I got some advice on another thread that I might (probably) have a float problem... Just something else to consider.

James

 

Dps, are the lines hooked up backwards? The inlet and return? When was the last time you changed it?

Ta, there is a fuel filter in the carb its self. If it is like my other cars carb, where the fuel line goes into the carb there is a line nut. And on the carb there is another. The fuel filter is a small one, cylinder shape. There is a spring on the end of it. The torx is nice because they are harder to strip. That is why they are used. My other car is a 74 Nova.

 

Yea, i'm getting code 24 and 32-- circut fault with Vehicle Speed Sensor and then that notorious 3-2.... Vader said that if i fix the 24 the 32 will prob go away. (just haven't got around to fixing the $60 VSS that's not really causing me problems... the only thing it's doing right now is turning my check engine light on)

88Bravo - Yea, that's the filter i changed. Helped somewhat, but didn't fix it.