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Old 09-17-2002, 01:10 AM   #1
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corvette brakes on a thirdgen

How different are corvette brakes from 1le brakes? Is there any way to mount them to a stock spindle with a special spindle adapter bracket like the 1LE brake conversion does? I know a guy who works in a machine shop and can make anything I give him measurements on. I have read some stuff saying you probably need 17 inch wheels with corvette rotors. What if I use the corvette caliper with 1LE rotors. The reason I say this is because I can get corvette calipers for cheap.
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Old 09-17-2002, 06:05 AM   #2
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The answer to your question is contained within this old post by me; http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...threadid=59878

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Old 09-17-2002, 10:48 AM   #3
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Alright I read your post and the post about the corvette calipers in:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...threadid=78112

Well I was thinking that I could go to a junk yard and get the 12 inch corvette calipers and rotors of a corvette with 12inch brakes setup. This would eliminate the 1LE rotor issue. If I got the 12 inch corvette brakes they would also fit inside my 16 inch IROC wheels.

Then the only thing I would need to find would be a hub to mount the rotors on. Could I use a hub off a corvette? If not I can take a brake rotor of a b-body and lathe it down until it is the size I need, like this guy did:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kiszka/C5_brake_upgrade.htm

If anyone sees something in this post that they donít think will work let me know?

I think it can be done. Does anyone have 12 inch C4 brakes sitting around that they would like to sell to me? How many different options were there in C4 brakes? I was wondering how many different types of C4 calipers there are. Did the C4 only come with 2 brake options, 12 or 13 inch brakes?

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Old 09-17-2002, 11:22 AM   #4
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There was a topic somewhere about taking a regular thirdgen hub/rotor and having a machine shop turn it down until the rotor part was gone, and then you'd have a hub. If I remember correctly, the one person who did this reported strange noises during stops at greater than 40mph. There is no reason you couldn't do that and have a custom bracket made that would mount corvette calipers. However, if you were going to do that, why not go with C5 calipers/rotors? Many of the C4 guys are retrofitting C5 brakes. The C5 rotors are 13" and the bad is substantially bigger than the C4. As to your question about the corvette hub, the answer is no. The corvette hub and bearing are attached to a "tube" that is bolted to the spindle, and I really don't think that would lend itself well to adaptation, though anything is possible. Here are some other links:
http://www.superchevyperformance.com/misc/c5brakes.asp
http://www.electro-dynamics.com/

This picture is from the electro-dynamics site, and is a pic of a C4 spindle with the C5 brakes installed. You can sort of see that the hub is attached to the "tube" that is bolted to the rest of the spindle.
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Old 09-17-2002, 11:42 AM   #5
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The main reason I would want to go with C4 12 inch brakes is I don't think C4 13 inch or C5 13 inch brakes will fit in my stock 16 inch IROC rims. Does anyone know?? Another reason I would go with C4 brakes over the C5 brakes is C4 brakes are cheaper. Thanks for the very good information about the hub. I think I will I just may have to try this. I think this is a good less pricy alterative to the 1LE conversion.

Does anyone have C4 brakes for sale?

Can anyone tell me the different brake options the C4 came with?

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Old 09-17-2002, 12:25 PM   #6
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The C5 caliper will not fit 16" rims. You would need 17" rims. Here a coupe of pics on my C4
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 09-17-2002, 04:27 PM   #7
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Thatís what I thought. I can use the C4 12 inch brakes though. Can anyone tell what year and model C4 corvette I can get the 12 inch brakes off of? Also does the C4 corvette only come with 1 type of calipers or are there are different calipers on different models?
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Old 09-17-2002, 04:46 PM   #8
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The ZR-1 and Grand Sport (J55) caliper (13") will not work. Standard stock brakes (12") on 88-96 will work. Not sure on 84-87. Post a message on the Corvette Forum
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Old 09-17-2002, 05:09 PM   #9
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The non-HD 12 inch corvette brake calipers are still 2 piston calipers like the 1LE right? Also will the 1LE adapter bracket work with this caliper or am I going to have to have a special one made for the corvette calipers?

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Old 09-17-2002, 05:53 PM   #10
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The "Vette" rotors are much thinner than the 1LE setup, and the calipers are too narrow to fit over the 1LE rotor.

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Old 09-17-2002, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANDYZ28
The "Vette" rotors are much thinner than the 1LE setup, and the calipers are too narrow to fit over the 1LE rotor.

Thanx,ANDYZ28
Yes that is true, that is why I am using vette rotors and vette calipers and making a hub as described above, then I won't have that problem. What i was asking is if you could use the 1LE mounting bracket to mount the corvette calipers.

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Old 09-17-2002, 09:19 PM   #12
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I don't see any reason why not.

But it seem to "me" to be a whole lot of work.

Not to mention the fact that the 1LE rotor uses much larger outer wheel bearings for increased durability.

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Old 09-17-2002, 10:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANDYZ28
I don't see any reason why not.

But it seem to "me" to be a whole lot of work.

Not to mention the fact that the 1LE rotor uses much larger outer wheel bearings for increased durability.

Thanx,ANDYZ28
The bearings are the same size as stock, if I use a G-body rotor to make a hub. I can get the calipers for 35 bucks a piece (remanufactured) and the rotors for $60 for both (used). Itís a lot better then stock brakes in every way and a couple hundred cheaper then the 1LE brakes. Yes I guess technically it's not as good as 1LE brakes but I think there about the same braking power when it comes down to it.
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Old 09-18-2002, 05:52 AM   #14
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Keep us posted on the progress of this interesting conversion.

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Old 09-18-2002, 11:06 PM   #15
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Ooohhhh.... This C5 mod looks very interesting to me..... I love the idea of turning the rotor off the hub assembly and having a seperate rotor that can be replaced easily..... Seems like the way to go to me. So has anybody found any new information on if that guy has created that bracket that will adapt a C5 caliper saddle to our stock caliper bolt pattern?

Hmmmmmmm
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Old 09-20-2002, 03:38 PM   #16
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I Emailed the guy that is doing that C5 mod to his Monte Carlo (name's Tony) and got a response from him saying that he has gone to the B-body spindles on his Monte Carlo so he can use some B-body specific Hotchkis upper control arms. So the brackets that he is developing will not work on G or F body setups. He did say that he may work on some G/F body bracket adapters after he finishes the ones for his car. I told him that I think he could easily find a decent sized market for them from us thirdgenners......

I did some checking and there is pretty much no reason that a guy couldn't do this swap for under $700 if the bracket is out there and for a reasonable price. The C5 rotors run about $55 each and the calipers are in the $165 area (That's GM prices with my employee discount, not sure what full list is on those parts is - that is also the red powdercoated Z06 caliper part #s, you could get by with plain metal C5 ones for a bit cheaper I would imagine). So (conservatively) figure another $150 on saddles, bolts, and pins and probably another $75 in machine work on the rotors to convert them to plain hubs and cutting the ears off the spindles (could easily be done on your own with a good sawzall or cutoff tool).

And like Tony (guy with the Monte) says, the best part is that you can now use any brake parts that are designed for a C5!!! And no more packin bearings every time you do a brake job!
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Old 09-21-2002, 12:41 PM   #17
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Do 4'th gens have hubs, or do the have the hubs build into the rotor like the thirdgens ?
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Old 09-21-2002, 01:01 PM   #18
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fourthgen's have a hub. not built in like thirdgens.
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Old 09-21-2002, 02:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z
The bearings are the same size as stock, if I use a G-body rotor to make a hub.
My concern with turning down a rotor to make a hub is that the "hub" will be kind of heavy won't it? Also, what about wheel offset? How much farther will the front wheels stick out with your homemade hub?

This sounds like a lot of work and in the end I have a feeling it will be just as, if not more, expensive than the 1LE upgrade. Just my $.02
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Old 09-21-2002, 06:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by BretD 88GTA
My concern with turning down a rotor to make a hub is that the "hub" will be kind of heavy won't it? Also, what about wheel offset? How much farther will the front wheels stick out with your homemade hub?

This sounds like a lot of work and in the end I have a feeling it will be just as, if not more, expensive than the 1LE upgrade. Just my $.02

I thought about the offset but I am sure I can find a rotor with the right width spec. If not I will find a rotor from a car that is thinner then stock and use spacers. I havenít bought anything yet but I will go to an auto parts store and measure some rotors when I go home from college on Oct 15.

As far as price here's what I got calculated:
- Some guy will sell me Corvette Rotors, Calipers, Caliper Carriers all for $125
- I have new corvette brake pads lying around from my broís Camaro that has bear brakes.
- Brake lines $95
- Used rotors to use as hub about $35
- Bearings $35
- Bolts $10 at the most
- Miscellaneous stuff I will need along the way $50


This is what I can get for free because I know a guy in a machine shop:
- Custom spindle adaptor plate
- Machining down a rotor to make a hub
- Spindle modification (probably can just do it myself)

Total:
125+95+35+35+10+50= $350 (corvette brakes)

If I bought the Spohn's 1LE kit it would cost me $850

Money saved:
$850 - $350 = $500!!

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Old 09-21-2002, 09:31 PM   #21
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Old 09-22-2002, 02:18 AM   #22
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If you look at Tony's site he states that the thickness of the C5 rotor flange is .300" so that would widen the front track width by that amount on each side (or an overall widening of the front track width of .600" ). I really don't see much of a problem with that for most of us. It might change the way the car performs in the turns (may push a bit more with a wider front track), but I seriously doubt most of us will be out on the track pushing our cars to the point where it would be noticeable and become a true problem.

Machining the rotor - creating a hub that is too heavy? How is that? You are using the same thing that was on the car to begin with - sans the rotor section - and adding a rotor to replace that part of it..... Seems like a wash on the weight to me aside from the fact that the rotor is now 13" x 1.25" and not 10.5" x 1" and thus will weigh more due to the added mass of the rotor (kind of the point of the swap).

And as for prices, it is somewhat true that you aren't saving much money on this over Spohn's 1LE setup, but than again you will end up with a superior brake setup. The C5 rotors are much larger (13" x 1.25" ) and the pistons in the calipers and size of the swept area of the pads is also larger. Plus, one can very easily find used C5 brake stuff out of boneyards and the like and cut a solid $200 out of the prices I listed. That means it would cost you more around what 89 Iroc Z is stating - which is about half of what the 1LE setup will cost you, depending on how resourcefull you are and what the adapters will end up running if they get produced (hint: need to show enough interest to get somebody to commit to making these things ). And there is virtually no more work required for the C5 swap over the 1LE swap...... The only difference is machining down the rotor yourself, or paying to have that done. Just like the C5 swap, the 1LE setups will require having the stock caliper ears removed as well, or pay for the exhange of spindles that are already machined which brings the Spohn 1LE setup to $925 plus shipping (shipping spindles back and forth probably isn't gonna be cheap).

And let us not forget about the clear benefits to the C5 setup in the vast aftermarket for, and availability of, parts for the C5 setups and the ease of mantenance and repair of a non one-piece rotor and hub assembly........
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Old 09-22-2002, 02:38 AM   #23
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Oh, I just checked GMpartsdirect and they have the plain calipers for $81.71 each and the saddles for $24.46 each........ They don't have the rotors listed, but I am sure they can get them for around what I was quoted locally. They list two different sets of pads - one for $42 and the other for $89. I suspect that the $89 ones are the Z06 specific ones and would be ideal and also likely worth the extra $$$$...

So! That puts the swap at $411 plus misc. bolts, the custom brackets( ), and the machine work if you cannot do it yourself. Seems that one could get by for very nearly under $500 for this kit without much more effort than the 1LE setup would run........
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Old 09-22-2002, 02:47 AM   #24
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Matt87GTA
I am not using the C5 brake setup. Yes the C5 13 inch brake setup is very sweet but I can't fit 13 inch brakes in my stock 16 inch wheels. I was thinking about using the C5 calipers with 12 inch rotors, can anyone give me measurements of the width of a c5 caliper? Can it be uses with 1LE rotors?

Yet another option would be to use a 98 and up f-body caliper. The 98 up F-body calipers are dual piston calipers, which you can get dirt cheap. From what I have heard there just as good as the 1LE calipers (please correct me if I am wrong).

I am planning on using the C4 12inch brake setup. As far as prices go you said I wouldn't be saving much money over Spohn 1LE setup. I guess it how you look at it, for me I will be saving about $500 and for a poor college student like me $500 is a lot of money.

As far as the hub spacing issue. As stated above I am going to get some measurement of other GM rotors at the part store and see if I can find a car that came with rotors that don't stick out as far as f-body rotors. Hopefully I can find something thinner to compensate for the extra width of the corvette rotors sitting in front of the makeshift hub.

I am brain storming stage right now. I know there are cheaper options to 1LE that are just as good. You just have to be creative and try something new. The corvette brake option is $500 cheaper for me. I am sure there are other options out there to. I am still looking at everything.

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Old 09-22-2002, 03:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z
[As far as prices go you said I wouldn't be saving much money over Spohn 1LE setup. I guess it how you look at it, for me I will be saving about $500 and for a poor college student like me $500 is a lot of money.
No no.... People like you (and me) that either are not afraid to whip out the sawzall and/or the micrometer as needed, or have connections on used or discounted new parts, will save huge over the cost of the Spohn 1LE kit. I am saying that the prices I put up there before only saved people a few hundred over the 1LE kit but those were all new parts and powdercoated red to boot. I have since found much better prices (see post above) and I have heard that C5/Z06 owners that upgrade brakes are usually easily talked out of their old ones.

The problem is this all relies on the development of that adapter bracket. And what complicates this even more is that some of us have 17" rims and will have no problem running whatever rotor they want and still others want to be able to run the 16" wheels and thus need to keep the rotor to a 12" one.

I wish I could help you on the measurements of the C5 calipers but I don't have one in my posession (yet at least). But I think that you may run into problems with the amount of swept area that the C5 caliper and pad have versus the amount available on a 12" C4 rotor. The width issue ( I assume you mean the area between the piston bores and the outer face part) should be no problem if the 12" C4 rotors are 1.25" wide.
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Old 09-22-2002, 03:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt87GTA
No no.... People like you (and me) that either are not afraid to whip out the sawzall and/or the micrometer as needed, or have connections on used or discounted new parts, will save huge over the cost of the Spohn 1LE kit. I am saying that the prices I put up there before only saved people a few hundred over the 1LE kit but those were all new parts and powdercoated red to boot. I have since found much better prices (see post above) and I have heard that C5/Z06 owners that upgrade brakes are usually easily talked out of their old ones.

The problem is this all relies on the development of that adapter bracket. And what complicates this even more is that some of us have 17" rims and will have no problem running whatever rotor they want and still others want to be able to run the 16" wheels and thus need to keep the rotor to a 12" one.

I whish I could help you on the measurements of the C5 calipers but I don't have one in my posession (yet at least). But I think that you may run into problems with the amount of swept area that the C5 caliper and pad have versus the amount available on a 12" C4 rotor. The width issue ( I assume you mean the area between the piston bores and the outer face part) should be no problem if the 12" C4 rotors are 1.25" wide.
That is why I am planning on using the C4 not the C5. Stock 12 inch brake setup.
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Old 09-23-2003, 05:36 PM   #27
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I have C5 wheels on my IROC on a skulte billet adapter. (17's front 18's rear) I also have the stock C4 rotors and calipers, (not installed). Will the hub cause difficulty and whats it going to take to make the C5 rotors and calipers work with this setup. Pardon me if this question has been asked, but im a little new to this brake setup thing. Although I have 4WD, my stock brakes suck and im looking to upgrade.
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Old 09-23-2003, 07:42 PM   #28
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I've seen talk of the C4 12" and the C5 or LS1 brakes, but not much on the C4 HD. Are the C4 HD "bad" in comparison?
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Old 09-25-2003, 02:10 AM   #29
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Quote:
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If you look at Tony's site he states that the thickness of the C5 rotor flange is .300" so that would widen the front track width by that amount on each side (or an overall widening of the front track width of .600" ). I really don't see much of a problem with that for most of us. It might change the way the car performs in the turns (may push a bit more with a wider front track), but I seriously doubt most of us will be out on the track pushing our cars to the point where it would be noticeable and become a true problem.
Remember that when compared to the stock 10.5 discs, the 1LE kit increase each side approx .5" for a track 1" wider.
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Old 12-19-2003, 07:48 PM   #30
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Back from the dead.

Has anyone put Z06 brakes on a Thirdgen yet?
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Old 12-19-2003, 08:03 PM   #31
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Yep, check out the link in my sig.
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Old 12-20-2003, 12:20 AM   #32
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Link:

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Old 12-20-2003, 12:58 AM   #33
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Yep, check out the link in my sig.
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Old 12-21-2003, 06:22 AM   #34
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Awesome info toddlsf! If [when ] I go to upgrade the brakes on my GTA I'll probably give you a ring to get the brackets. Thanks
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Old 12-27-2003, 05:07 PM   #35
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Back from the dead.

Has anyone put Z06 brakes on a Thirdgen yet?
Yeah...in December of '02.

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Old 06-28-2004, 05:52 PM   #36
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one question that may have already been answered.
but here goes. ive got 17 inch grand sport rims which requre a 2 inch spacer with the c5 swap i need to get longer stud meaning ALOT more stress on the studs and other components. i will me joining COMSCC this year and will be racing at watkins glen, lime rock, and NH int raceway. i want the 13in brakes and i want strenght! has anyone pushed this setup to the limit? and how did it perform? thanks -TOT
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Old 06-28-2004, 06:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
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one question that may have already been answered.
but here goes. ive got 17 inch grand sport rims which requre a 2 inch spacer with the c5 swap i need to get longer stud meaning ALOT more stress on the studs and other components. i will me joining COMSCC this year and will be racing at watkins glen, lime rock, and NH int raceway. i want the 13in brakes and i want strenght! has anyone pushed this setup to the limit? and how did it perform? thanks -TOT
I'm looking to use corvette/4th gen rims also with my big brake set-up.Have you looked at using Skulte wheel adaptors rather than wheel spacers?They are as strong as the original set-up,I personally wouldn't be too happy with thrashing something with spacers and very long studs.
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Old 06-29-2004, 08:33 AM   #38
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im sorry I should have been clearer. i already have the adapters, the kind that mounts to your spindle and then u mount your rim to that, i would never think about using that long of a stud. the longer stud is used for the addition of the "slip on" C5 rotor. i was just wonding how bad you can beat this setup, not just in stopping but in cornering as well. thanks - TOT
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Old 06-29-2004, 07:02 PM   #39
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I'd just give Andris Skulte a call for his opinion but the bolt on adapters you have should be fine to beat on.


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Old 06-30-2004, 09:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
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I'd just give Andris Skulte a call for his opinion but the bolt on adapters you have should be fine to beat on.


Ed
I occasionally road-race with Andris, and he runs the adapters he sells. He's whipped his car around Lime Rock, Pocono, Memphis, and Indy Raceway Park (last month) w/ them in place and has had zero problems.
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Old 07-04-2004, 04:03 PM   #41
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I've been running C5 brakes with skulte spacers for a couple thousand miles and no problems. Figure the car's more likely to lose a c-clip in the rear axle during a hard romp through some tight twisty mountain roads. A call to Jegs or Summit for some Enzyte will get you longer stronger studs, I think ARP sells 'em as well. If you plan on doing the c5 swap buy pads that come with antirattle clips! VGX sells a set for 35.00

I also use a torque wrench whenever putting the wheels or spacers on and torque to 120ftlbs any more will strech the studs and weaken them. Most air impact guns will tighten to 350ftlbs !! the stock spec for our cars is 100 !
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Old 07-04-2004, 07:17 PM   #42
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Just curious...which store carries the VGX pads?

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Old 07-07-2004, 12:15 AM   #43
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under no circumstances would i reccommend vgx pads to anybody!!! they are absolute garbage. i didn't know how bad they were until i bought brute stop pads. They don't work well cold and they "go away" with no warning but for the stink of brake dust under high speed conditions.
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Old 07-07-2004, 02:16 AM   #44
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That's what I'm hearing online...but there's nowhere else to get the rattle clips except with GM pads and those are $130 or so a set.


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Old 07-07-2004, 04:00 AM   #45
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Summit sells VGX.
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Old 07-09-2004, 03:23 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by ebmiller88
That's what I'm hearing online...but there's nowhere else to get the rattle clips except with GM pads and those are $130 or so a set.


Ed
Ed,

Head over to gmpartsdirect and search the following two part #'s:

12530681
---and---
88909667

They include both the "anti-rattle springs" and "pad abutment shims" as shown in the pic. You can kiss me later...
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-09-2004, 03:40 AM   #47
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Thanks for the input. I stumbled across the Ceramic pads (88909667) today on Corvette Forum and ordered 2 sets from GMPD.

SMACK!!


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Old 07-09-2004, 09:27 AM   #48
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Yeah, that price is almost too good to be true! I only ordered one set, but I think I'm going to go back and order a couple more!
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Old 07-28-2004, 04:05 AM   #49
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*UPDATE*

I know that several people have done the C5 brake swap already. As most everyone knows, the invaluable C5 thread was deleted and with it the dimensions for the bracket. I know that toddlsf is providing a set of brackets, but I just couldn't see paying the $$. Anyway, I took the time to make a new bracket from scratch using Autocad. This was a pita because I'm a total n00b in this area. Just the same, I thought the information should be available in case someone wants to either make their own or provide a machine shop with the file to have the brackets fabricated. Incidentally, I had my brackets laser cut for <$50.

Hope someone finds this beneficial.

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Old 07-28-2004, 09:10 AM   #50
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I did the C5 swap. Thanks Todd!!! your help was much appreciated! Used EBC Greenstuff pads and i am very pleased with the performance. A little dustier than I expected but incredible bite even from cold. This is practically an essential mod
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