hectre13

iTrader: (4)

Hey All!

I just picked up an 84 Trans Am with the HO 5.0

the car does NOT wanna run unless a little gas is poured into the carb. so I decided it makes sense for me to rebuild the old quadrajet. I looked the thing over and couldn't find any markings that said a specific model number on it (it is also covered in gunk so its probably hiding)

I'm assuming (since I didn't see any electronics) that this is NOT a computer controlled qjet. I also noticed that it doesn't have the electric choke assembly on the side?

I haven't rebuilt a car carburetor before, but have done a few for motorcycles. I feel confident I can do this myself.

my question is, does anyone know what model this carb is by looking at it? and can someone tell me what is the best rebuild kit I should buy to rebuild it? anything not included in the kit I should pick up also? (float, etc)?

Thanks!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

It's for a Chevrolet; that's about all I can tell. Looks like early - mid 70s, by the Carter thing; the Rochester plant that built them burned down at some point, and they paid Carter to make em.

Get the carb #. On the left side, on the place around the long screw that goes all the way through the air horn and the fuel bowl into the throttle plate, right above the secondary throttle lever. Stamped; probably starts out with 704.

Damon

That's a pre-74 carb in all likelyhood. Divorced style choke. It'll work, except that the kickdown cable stud is in the wrong position to use with your car's TV cable (700R4 overdrive trans). Also, they replaced the QJet with a non-computer controlled unit, but they left the computer controlled HEI distributor in it (no vacuum advance canister). THat's a no-no. It'll never run well like that.

Moreover, it looks like that carb has really been through the war. That thing NEEDS some attention, or replacement.

paulo57509

Look for the number here:

8Mike9

I'm pretty sure I see the vac can on the distributor in the pic.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

just got the numbers off the Carb..

17057213
J6 AWP

Also the distributor DOES have a vacuum canister on it.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Model M4MV, year ending in 7 (would be 77 in this case); not sure exactly what application 213 is, besides, Chevrolet passenger car.

A DEEEEEP smogger emissions-crippled model. Probably has the stepped-taper primary rods and the idle passages that are essentially the same size as the discharge orifices (i.e. NO WAY to fatten up idle & low-speed cruise for driveability without MAJOR specialized surgery which isn't even possible in all cases). Far from an ideal choice for a "performance" situation, but w/e, it's what you got, so you gotta work with it.

Tear it down, soak it overnight in carb cleaner (brown stinky stuff in a 5-gallon bucket), wash it in lacquer thinner with a toothbrush (one that won't dissolve in LT obviously) and a small paint brush w end bristles, wire-brush all the small plugs under the primary jet wells and related places up toward the front of the carb down to bright shiny metal and re- LT them until STERILE and epoxy over them thoroughly, re-assemble w a new float and a "kit", put in a new fuel filter, see where that takes you.

Go here www.tvmadeez.com and learn all you can about the TV cable. You'll have to - that would be, HAVE. TO. - no ifs, ands, buts, or maybes - make an adapter to correctly locate a TV cable stud, otherwise your transmission won't survive long. In fact it's not impossible that BTO can provide the exact thing you need since they make kits for several Q-Jet linkage variations.

Next thing you'll want to do is refresh the mechanicals of the distributor and calibrate it more appropriately to a "performance" curve instead of its most likely smogger emissions anti-performance curve. One thing at a time though. Get the carb working right, then move on to the next thing.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

actually I would prefer to put it back to stock if possible. can anyone give me the proper carb number/information for the HO 5.0 in 84? I'm assuming the distributor would have to be changed back as well?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

"Put it back to stock" tends to be a pretty tall order when dealing with a car that's been hacked up as much as that one has. Not saying it can't be done, or that you shouldn't do it, or any such thing; only, it's not as trivial as it might seem.

The intake is not stock, so there's a bunch of features that either can't be re-installed, or will take a bit of engineering. No telling what's happened to all the wiring, vacuum lines, sensors, etc. that it used to have. Plus, it's been hacked up in other ways as well; for example, is has no windshield wiper motor. Can't see the exhaust, but I'd bet that's been lowlifed too, like everything we CAN see.

That car simply isn't something I would have bought, or even, accepted as a gift, speaking strictly for myself; and had you asked here BEFORE you bought it and posted those pictures, instead of buying it first then realizing it's fornicated, prolly not one single person here woulda advised you to buy it. It's just a giant ball of s*** at this point. That's gonna be one tough resto project.

But to answer your question, the correct carb for it is 17083204 or -4204. And yes, the dist would have to be changed back too.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

so you are telling me.. that nobody would have advised me to buy a 15th anniversary edition Trans Am that is rust free and solid, with numbers matching engine and transmission with 74k miles on it for $1200 because the engine needs some work? HA!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yup.

"Numbers matching" is sucker bait on these cars. Especially when it's a 305. That's something everybody with an interest in them would like to forget the existence of, rather than celebrate the memory. Even though the L69 was the fastest thing on the street in 1983; in 1984 it was watered down considerably (like being put in front of an automatic and given grocery-cart gears like 3.42), and within just acoupla years, it was totally outclassed. Even worse than it outclassed its own competition at the time it was introduced.

I know, because I was there at the time, and bought one. (a 83 5-spd Z28)

That sort of stuff doesn't matter too much when you get all starry-eyed over it all, then wake up one day and realize you've got $6000 or something in a $3000 car, and yeah, it's a nice car, but, nobody cares. Yes it's happened, yes it will happen again. Don't let it be you.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

You're cute. Thanks for your opinion.. But I could care less what you think is a good deal or not.. I'm asking for advice on how to improve my car.. Not some BS from an a**hole on the internet.. If you don't like my car.. Or my plans.. Or whatever.. Please just keep it to yourself.. Thanks.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

And I used to be providing it.

Sorry I took my time to help you out. I won't make that mistake again.

Enjoy your superiority attitude without my participation.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

You stopped giving advice as soon as you decided to criticize someone else's decision on buying and trying to save a great vehicle.. Calling something that someone is actually excited about a ball of **** is being very helpful.. Thanks

steve87ta

iTrader: (4)

I would suggest Cliff Ruggles for your carb parts. Or better yet get his book on rebuilding quads.

Cliffs High Performance.com

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

thanks! ill check them out

Brother Al

The "Correct" E4ME Carb numbers for an '84 L69 are:

*17084208: L69, 5.0L automatic, Z-28/Trans Am-H.O. (newly confirmed pn)

17084209: ALL, 5.0L, MT, w/AC, Z-28, Trans Am-H.O.

17084205: ALL, 5.0L, all, all, Z-28, Trans Am-H.O. (?)

These are the only numbers Ive come across that tie to an 1984 L69... The top number also verifies with my '84 Recaro T/A. * might be one or two more, but I doubt it.

Yeah, these are not the Fire-Breathing big blocks of yore, but there is a lot to be said for clean, original cars and more for people who find and save the better examples.

Id prefer a Minty, Iron Duke-powered, Firebird S/E over a rusty, hacked up, beat-to-hell '89 TTA any day. People can say XYX, but your car IS special...even more so to you because she is yours... go to a car show and your car with gather attention... I promise.. its visually stunning.
Anyone who appreciates cars, appreciates every car that exemplifies a specific version of a model, trim level, edition, and/or an advancement in the lineage...even if its not worthy of saving... otherwise classic junkyards wouldnt offer tours and people wouldnt paint/sell/buy paintings of classic rusting into the weeds.
Your's was the 1st F-Body to utilize 16" wheels and ugraded suspension... Its a 15th Anniversary T/A... IMHO, the sexiest 3rd Gen... followed by the '84 Recaro T/A. It exemplified Pontiac's efforts to continually reduce drag. The L69 is no slouch when compared to its kin and might not be the fastest, but it amongst them in its day... it was Pontiac's best at that time... sure, its a hi-po, carb'd Chevy 305, but God knows Pontiacs are an endangered species.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

Thanks a lot I appreciate it! for reference here is my car.. I'm in love with it! and i know its a project.. but am eager to get it back to its former glory.

first step is getting it running right again!

mlbinseattle

I have an '84 Camaro Z28 with the 305 HO, and it has the CCC Quadrajet. The ID number on it is 17084208.

If you want to go back to stock, you'll need to get a CCC Quadrajet which mine is. It has the Mixture Control Solenoid and the Throttle Position Sensor, the only two electronic parts, in it. Also, you'll need to have the computer controlled HEI dizzy instead of the vacuum advance HEI dizzy. Also, the MAP sensor needs to be installed and connected to the ECM. It gets vacuum from a port on the rear of the Quadrajet.

Basically, the ECM looks at the temp from the CTS and the readings from the O2 sensor. Once the engine gets to a specified temp (which also allows the O2 sensor to begin functioning since it needs to be hot), the ECM will go into closed loop. This is where the feedback to the CCC Quadrajet happens. Once the engine gets to the correct temp, the ECM looks at the O2 output and and cycles the Mixture Control Solenoid on the carb between lean and rich. The MCS controls the metering rods by pushing those into their seats. You'll hear a clicking while this is happening. That's the MCS turning on and off. The MCS will also click when you turn the key to the "on" position and continue for about 20 seconds if the engine isn't started. The ECM also has an input from the baro sensor, but I'm not real sure if this one is used to put the engine into closed loop or not.

Just conveying what "stock" is on these engines.

Tuning a CCC Quadrajet is interesting, too. You do it using a dwell meter.

I just finished rebuilding mine, and it was the first carb rebuild that I ever did. It was an experience, but all in all, it wasn't so bad. Just ensure that you have all the correct tools and measurement devices in hand before you begin.

If there was ever a '84 305 HO that was manufactured and didn't come with the CCC Quadrajet, I'm not aware of it.

Have fun with the car and the engine!

Brother Al

Mlbinseattle: Yours an Automatic or a T5?

Another 15th Anniversary (automatic-equipped) owner informed me of that same number on his yesterday. The info Ive put together does correspond to it being on F Body & Monte (both automatic)... likely is another AT L69 part number, seeing the Monte would indicate SS..although it also listed the El Camino, which, AFAIK, never has been found to have gotten the L69.
Ive yet to come across an Automatic-equipped F-Body L69 that still had its original carb myself. They were an '84-only option, so existing, unmolested ones are getting pretty scarce. In '85, GM nixed the 700R4/L69 combo for the F-Body, then killed the L69 in early '86 production/special order.
L69/200R4 was standard in the Monte SS.... and a '84 Mexico-only Monte SS 350/4 speed stick

mlbinseattle

It's an automatic, 4 speed, L69. Soooo ... are you telling me that I have a rarity sitting in my driveway? lol. AFAIK, the L69 was optional, but I wasn't aware that it was an '84 only thing for an automatic.

I'm going to drive it until the motor gives. It still has many miles left on it. In the meantime, I think I'm going to look for a 350 that I can get my hands on and build. Personally, I'd like to have TPI, but then you get into wiring differences, ECM changes, different fuel pump, etc. I may do it, one day. Most likely, I'll probably take that Quadrajet and slap it on the 350. It's a good carb, and it isn't really that hard to deal with.

Brother Al

Yes, '84 was the only year the L69 F-Body came with the 700R4. Roughly 2/3's of 1984 L69 F-Body production was automatics, and 1984 was the highest production year for all 3rd Gens as a whole, so in that respect, they are not rare, per se.. but complete/original L69 cars are few and far between today. As for automatic gearing; 3.42 was standard, but 3.73 was optional... all L69/5 speeds were 3.73's.

mlbinseattle

Yeh, I'm not that thrilled with the gearing. I'd like to get my hands on some 3.73's. Oh well. In any case, I learned something new about my car. Thanks for the info!