Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I own a set of the Pre-Eliminator AFR 195 heads and had always received conflicting information on the flow numbers so I finally had them put on a flow bench. I thought that I would post the results as they are just as impressive as the new Eliminators in a 195.

Intake runner: 195cc
Exhaust Runner: 64cc
Intake Port Gasket size: 1205
Exhaust Port Gasket size: 1405
Cylinder Bore: 4.030"
Intake Valve: 2.02"
Exhaust Valve: 1.60"
Combustion Chamber: 68cc
Angle Plugs


Port for cylinder 8 or 1 was tested. The new AFR Eliminators are in ()

Intake Exhaust
Lift CFM Flow CFM Flow
.1 95.7 (?) 57.1 (?)
.2 172.3 (146) 110.4 (119)
.3 228.4 (201) 168.4 (166)
.4 263.3 (274) 198.9 (197)
.5 278.8 (275) 210.1 (213)
.6 280.9 (280?) 217.1 (218)

So to be fair there are a few points to make:
1. A different flow bench was used
2. I have 2.02" valves with a 3 angle valve job and the new design has a 5 angle valve job with 2.05" valves. Had I used a five angle and 2.050 I would have had higher numbers.
3. I had him use a 4.030" bore since that is my bore. AFR used a 4.060" bore. Had I had him use a 4.060" I may have seen a little higher numbers.
4. I hand finished my cylinder heads. I did no port work I just blended things smooth, rounded a few things and matched the combustion chamber to a 4.030" bore.

If you come across a set of used pre-eliminator 195 AFRs do not be afraid to buy them. I paid $800 for this set, put in a few hours of work on the aforementioned along with polishing them and installing some time serts and I now have a set that will perform right up there with the new stuff, if not better.

cuisinartvette

Found this googling around
http://www.airflowresearch.com/eliminator.php

For kicks Ill post up the stock pre elim #s should have them tomorrow for comparisons sake. Yours use the 11/32 valves correct?

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I had seen that page on AFR's website but something just seems "off." The parts used to generate that new eliminator power curve are the same parts as used on their dyno proven combos page yet on that comparison page they are claiming that it makes ~535 hp which is ~30 more horsepower than their dyno proven combos page. So...

Also I cannot see a difference of 35hp between my heads and the new heads when I flow more at every lift except 0.400."

Damon

Yeah, I found the same thing a few years back when I was compiling flow data. Different numbers from different sources, which is pretty typical. Here's the numbers for the older AFR 195s, taken straight from AFR's website at the time:

(Lift, Intake, Exhaust)

0.05 40 31
0.1 71 61
0.2 132 106
0.3 198 156
0.4 240 178
0.5 260 190
0.6 262 194

And here's the same head with the "Competition Porting" package

0.05 40 31
0.1 71 61
0.2 135 110
0.3 201 157
0.4 249 180
0.5 275 195
0.6 280 208

Car Craft or somebody did a huge head flow chart a ways back and unlike most heads, the AFRs actually flowed very close to their claimed numbers, even a little more, in their testing (SF, 28"). They're the "real deal". I have a set of the older generation 190s on my mild 383 blower engine and I don't feel like I'm giving away much to the newer "Elimintator" heads, either. Just a good valve job, a little clean up work. A few years back I had to take the blower off for a rebuild so I temporarily chucked a regular 4bbl intake on it just so I could drive it around (carb still running the blower tune). It was still pretty strong even with the dismal compression ratio and no boost. I've used several sets of AFRs on motors since then, both big block and small block- they just make power on anything you bolt them on top of. I would have killed for affordable heads as good as these things are right out of the box back in the 70s and 80s.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Damon-- perhaps I have the competition ports. These heads aside from being marked as 195 and a huge AFR logo are otherwise offering me no clues to know. I do remember that car craft article but I cacannot findd it online. I don't want to mislead people so if someone knows how to tell let me know and I will change my first post.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

I think it was chevy hi performance that done almost a year long SBC head flow test. They flowed every set of aftermarket heads made at the time of write up and a lot of the common production heads like 461, 462, 882, L98, vortec, etc.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

I looked through my files and it looks like I saved a Jpeg of the flow results on most of them, just not the write up about each head.

Here's the Jpeg I saved. To read it you will need to save it and zoom up on it

Damon

Let me save you all the trouble. See attached Excel spreadsheet.

It's everything from the magazine article plus some other stuff I gathered up at the time and since. 3 tabs- 180cc and under, 181-199cc, and 200cc+ intake runner sizes.

Enjoy.

cuisinartvette

Damon what you came up with on the pre elim 195s is spot on afr verified it a min ago

The 190 was a good head but does need some work to get them to elim 195 status Just did a set myself for someone here recently, took a fair bit of work and a killer valve job but they are now about identical save for the .400 number seems the chamber is the magic there.

Damon

"seems the chamber is the magic there."

You said a mouth full there. That's the truth. The old rule of thumb is that 80% of the flow potential happens within 1/2" of the valve seat. But people forget that 1/2" from the valve seat INCLUDES MOST OF THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER!

wallyj

I have to ask, ive been reading your build thread and I am doing the t56 upgrade, I currently have stock vortecs with an edelbrock RPM air gap and a Lunatti Voodoo 103 cam so around .230 duration and .500 lift.

I am debating whether an upgrade to the afr Vortec 190's would be a dramatic upgrade or what, I contacted AFR and they felt it would be good but they are trying to sell me $2k of aluminum, I'd like someone with experience in a similar setup. Only thing is I don't know your camshaft or your thoughts on the heads

Thanks!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Holy dead posts batman.

A 383 with that size cam is choking stock vortec heads. The 190's would be good. But I think one of their non-vortec offerings would be better. They have better chambers from what I remember.

With that size cam you would probably be served better with the current 195cc non-vortec heads.

I have a 231/239 in my GTA with the 195cc LT1 heads and it loves to rev. It would easily rev past the 7000rpm limit I set to keep the short-block together.