steve's Z28

I own a 1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 with 5.7 tuned port injection with 84k miles on it. I plan on rebuilding the engine in the future. I want this car to be daily driver with good driveability and durability. I would like my L98 engine to achieve 325 horsepower rating at the rear wheels that is the same as the 2003 Pontiac Transam LS1 engines on the road today. Could this be achieved with this cam keeping the 350 cubic inch displacement platform without stroking it? Is this cam a good cam for street use? I would appreciate your suggestions. Thanks.

bigals87z28

few things

That 325hp raiting is at the flywheel, but LS1's fbodies have been known to put down up to 310rwhp.

there is nothing you cant do to that 350 to get the same power out of that new 350(ok LS1's are 346).

ZZ9 cam and heads is a great start. Torque converter, along with gears(unless your gear ratio is around 3.42) and porting the hell out of your intake would get you the same results. Check in at the TPI board for more info.

paul_huryk

The motor making the power is not a problem, but you will need to make sure you have a good aftermarket intake (miniran or superram) and a good exhaust system (headers and a 3-1/2" cat-back). Otherwise, you will choke the hell out of an otherwise strong combo.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Not necessarily true. There's ALOT you can do to a LTR style TPI intake to make it flow well (port plenum, aftermarket runners, high flow base intake, port the aftermarket runners and base) etc......

OMINOUS_87

Putting 325hp to the rear wheels with any combination of aftermarket LTR parts will take an act of congress.

1991TealRSZZ4

I'm hoping you are stating this assuming only intake mods. I'm sure there are people on this board putting down that much power w/ TPI

OMINOUS_87

Nope not just intake, I am talking the whole package: intake, heads, cam, exhaust, stroker, etc...

Most LTR owners soil their shorts if they can put down 300hp to the rears.

Link me to a few of them.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

OMNIOUS - lol......still a non-believer

I cant wait to prove some of you guys wrong (on paper).

TPI-Formula350-

you can get your L98 to make stock LS1 power but the ZZ9 cam alone probably won't do it........your going to have to get your car breathing first. runners,intake baseplate,headers,cat back, would be a good starting place. after that you might want to think about a cam and or heads.Anyway my car is beating LS1 SS Camaros and Ram Air TA's. I'm running low 13's with stock heads and cam so it's very possible to do . It's do you have the money to do it........... Eric

OMINOUS_87

Its just that no matter what you bolt up in a LTR configuration a Superram will out pull it by 500rpm giving a nice HP gain while not giving up any lowend punch.

The truth will always remain to be the truth.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

I vote for lingenfelter 219/219 cam. works best with ltr setup especially siamesed runners or super ram. have studied much on this, specifically intake pulse reversion on ltr motors and this is the cam i went for. more output than the hot cam and better idle/drivability.

camarojoe

The 219 cam does not work best with a LTR setup. With the SR or ASM siamesed runners yes, but not w/ stock style runners. A tpi intake setup needs more dur on the exhaust side (zz9) so that the incoming air doesn't get dilluted, by exhaust that hasn't been scavaged. Read Mike Crew's 600+post thread to find out every detail you need to know about L98s and cams.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

I'm ronning slp runner on an edel. base-ported zz-4 heads-slp headers. plus all the free mods. did i pick the wrong cam? could you post a link to that thread? thanks-mike

1991TealRSZZ4

I'll be honest with you. I searched the board and I couldn't find any I'll have to say you're right on this one. I wouldn't say it's impossible but of the how many thousand members on the board I couldn't find anything. :

I would like to see numbers for 1BadZ's setup though, looks pretty stout.

RDNK 4RE

I just got back from the dyno literally and put down a whooping 225hp and 310ft with like $1000 of mods since last yrs 207hp and 301ft.

I also have a zz9 cam on the shelf and a set of heads which may all get swapped for a carb setup or maybe a stealthram, maybe.

The only thing I dont have already is a set of headers and the heads and cam are just not going to gain me 100 wheel hp at the moment.

Oh that 225 on came about with my cutout open otherwise it was 213.

stuart

im currently running the zz-9 cam with vortec heads, sdpc ported baseplate, as&m runners, 52 mm t.b., 24# inj, heavily ported plenum, and everything gasket matched from top to bottom, and this cam is a blast, it pulls hard throughout the rpm range and i would have gotton some dyno info but it raped my 277 ratio rear end. this car would put at least 4-6 cars on my 5.7 stock gta in the 1/4 mile, and the torqe is unreal with this setup. and this is with no tuning and the stock chip!! i had another cam company grind me the zz-9 specs for $270.00, versus tpis`s price of $375.00. im with 1bad z on this one. ltrs will make the power with the right stuff.........jmo

Jed

You guys can make all the claims you want about LTR setups putting down serious power. Without dyno numbers, there will always be plenty of us who do not believe you.

1bad91Z, for example, has been telling us for quite some time what an animal his LTR engine is, but still no numbers? How hard is it to find a shop with a chassis dyno and make an appointment?

Please, to all LTR owners who are making the claim - no excuses -go run your cars and show us some dyno charts!

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Here is one.....
http://www.socal-fbodies.org/members/klorentzen.html

Then there is mine>>>>see sig below:

RDNK 4RE

I've seen that link and he's on this board. He is the only 300+hp numbers I've seen to date in 2yrs, 280-290 here lately yes but not to many over 300.

What makes this dissapointing to me is I make runs with the local impala club and they have a number of 4th gens (ls1's) that come as well. heres the dissapointment:

2003 z28 with a cold air intake 308hp and 330ft. Whats that like 300 bucks I spend $1000 and pick up 18hp for my 225. There was a 2nd car that made 330+hp with nothing at all, just a freak, but still. A number of bolt on impalas making well over 300 as well, wonder why everyone wants a miniram.

Ok the real downer was when I arrived there was a corvette on the rollers making 450hp and spinning the tires doing it.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

Geez, maybe i'm building the wrong car. would i pull over 3oo by going to the stealth ram? most of my setup is in my previous post.

Jed

Mike,

Generally speaking, intake manifolds such as the Stealthram and Miniram/modified LT1 will produce higher horsepower numbers compared to LTR setups. The tradeoff is that they may not produce as much torque as a LTR setup. However, you can always make up for that with gearing, a higher stall torque convertor, etc. Most LTR setups tend to produce so much torque that losing some of it just means that you'll be able to launch your car without spinning your tires through the first two gears.

If you do a search you will find a number of people on this board who have switched from a LTR setup to one of the alternative intakes mentioned above. In most cases, they gained horsepower after making the switch.

DannyT

Everyone is so in to dyno numbers that they don't get the bigger picture. Torque is JUST as important. A 300RWHP/400RWTQ TPI setup can run just as well as a 350RWHP/350RWTQ LS1. You should be more concerned with how fast your car is than how much HP it is putting down. We don't go driving around waving our dyno sheets at other drivers

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

o-k, thanks for the info. i'm running a 2800 stall and will be going to a 3.27 or 3.42 rear. i'm a stock block 350. i am using only bolt ons as of now. i have done all the free mods and pullies, afpr, k+n filters,fan switch, ported zz-4 heads, slp runners, ported plenum, edel. base, slp headers, flow master and a worked suspension. i would like to think with the 219 cam i would be close to 300 hp. if i switch to a stealth ram i should pull considerably more. if there is a better cam for me i'd like to know. i looked long and hard. talked to alot of people with fast f-bods. my friend kevin made close to 300 hp with the ltr setup and more over that with the stealth ram. he was running the hot cam and he even told me the 219 is a better choice. this seems close to what steve's z-28 is looking for. i was told i didn't need any extra duration on the exhaust side because of my headers being so big(1-7/8). plus lingenfelter has been clearancing these cams for 250 bucks on their website and on ebay. opinions please-mike

age

Ominous: my former LTR setup pulled just about 107mph in the 1/4 with the ZZ4 cam. I'm sure with a SLIGHTLY bigger cam, race ported heads, more PROM tuning (if I had access to a dyno and more runs to tweak), and MAYBE 1 3/4" headers, I'd be able to pull just a little more mph. How much horse do you think I'd be able to get? A friend of mine read that a modded 4th gen running about 106 mph equate to about 330hp at the rear wheels after a dyno run. Don't take this as a personal flame/bashing.. I'm actually being quite inqusitive and curious at this point.

Jed

I only ask for dyno information because people tend to make claims without providing information to back up those claims. I hate that.

No, we don't go driving around waving our dyno sheets at other drivers. But we're not on the street right now. We're on a message board.

1991TealRSZZ4

Eh, I dunno about a 106 trap speed equaling 330 rwhp. My stock ZZ4 traps 104+ w/ a smaller carb and single exhaust (they test the 355 chp rating w/ a 750 cfm double pumper and LT's and duals). So my car probably has a little over 330 chp, so in the range of 270-290 rwhp.

Although w/ an automatic and 2.73 gears that may be a closer estimate

OMINOUS_87

LTR cars can and have proved to go pretty fast by several members of this board. However balancing out a combo to break past a 12.0 is very difficult to acomplish, 12.5s is closer to a average time that fully modded LTR cars pull. MPH is difficult to harvest in a LTR car as they pull past the 1/8 mile. The LTR setup just cant breath in the upper rpms to develop proper hp to pull real hard at the end of the track.

Its not personal/flaming/bashing its just the way it is.

DannyT

That wasn't a dig against you, I was actually following up what you said about our torque outputs.
As far as not backing up claims, I'm right there with you. There a are several messages that I've been involved in discussing HP 'claims' and lack of documentation. It's kind of a sore subect for some.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

my first pic...

Jed

Sorry Danny, I misinterpreted your post. I definitely agree with you about the lack of documentation.

mike graycar, you may want to look into getting a program like Desktop Dyno 2000 or Performance Trends Engine Analyzer to help you compare different camshafts for the combo you are planning. Just an idea.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

Thanks jed. i did and they were all very close, that is the cams i was looking at; the hot cam, the zz-9 , the lpe 219 and the slp 51010 among others. i settled on the 219 because of 1. the claims made by lingenfelter and 2. the price was right. not to mention it it has a mild idle and wount drive the computer crazy. i am pretty sure i will be happy with this cam. after all it is a street car. if i get beat i can always run home and get my s-10 with the carbed 406.

DannyT

Hey Mike nice wheels. I have the same ones in 3-piece!

OMINOUS_87

The 219 cam will work out just fine in a LTR motor. However to see the gains that everyone else talks about your gonna need some decent heads with a very strong exhaust port. What are the details of your combo gonna be?

I have the same rims, 17" Billet Saber, on my Formula.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Jed -

If you want to give me the money to have my car chassis dyno'd, I'd be glad to do it! In fact, I think I might even know how to pick up the phone and call Houston Performance which is about 15 minutes from me and I'm sure they would gladly give me 3 pulls for the $75.00 they charge to do so.

The point is, if you dont want to fund my project, then (on paper) results will come on my time and on my dime when both are available to do so! But, I will be more than happy to take your (US Currency) donations if you cant wait for me to get the spare dyno money!

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the compliments on the rims guys. one reason i picked them was becuase nobody else has them, then i see 2 guys in a row on this thread with them !! Danny your car looks just freakin killer. great setup and a super website also. Ominus i could't find a pic of your car. post one if ya got one. I'd like to see it.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

The 219 cam will work out just fine in a LTR motor. However to see the gains that everyone else talks about your gonna need some decent heads with a very strong exhaust port. What are the details of your combo gonna be?

Well, the bulk of my mods is posted up above. more specifically i will be running a set of corvette alum. heads that were cut, ported, polished and cc'ed. going into slp 1-7/8 stainless headers and y- pipe. flowmaster cat back and.......coming soon -test pipe with dump tube. the heads will also get a 5-angle vavle job. with 1.6:1 roller rockers this gives me a woping .565 lift on the exhaust, should do very well for exhaust scavenging with out having to rely on huge duration

also everthing in my combo has been ported polished and port matched buy me.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

oops. i forgot to put the "quote" thing on the first paragraph of my last post. sorry bout that. here is a pic of the stock base plate. i swapped to a ported edelbrock unit ( done by me ) and sold this one on ebay after i polished and ported it. alumacoated it and then modified it to go on corvettes as well as f bodies

OMINOUS_87

Sounds like you got a good grasp of what needs to be done to get things rollin. However, just to emphasize again, be sure that the exhaust flow of those heads are real good, like in the 80% E/I range.

camarojoe

Ominous is on the money. The 219 or 224/230 Comp is about as much dur. for the int. side as you would want for ANY ltr setup. Grey car, those heads will work great w/ the 219 cam and ltr's. That cam build great low-mid end cylinder pressure, because of the aggressive ramps. That's why all the vettes and guys like Buckeye run so good with that cam. I'd have the vette heads flow checked on a bench, even though it's $$$. Just to be sure.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

Well, the heads are going back to the machine shop to have the guides cut down for the high lift of the cam. what should i do to make sure i have 80% I/E ? just measure or have them flowed?

also, any suggestions for valve springs? it's the last thing i need to buy.

OMINOUS_87

What exactly was done when they were ported?

Yeah, you will need to have them flowed, 75%-80% E/I and you should be good for the single pattern cam. Alot of times when people port things the intake gets more consideration then the exhaust does, and they unbalance the original E/I ratio. If the exhaust port is not in that range you can always "banddaid" it by running 1.6 or 1.7 ratio rockers on the exhaust and 1.5 on the intake, or whatever combo will be best. If you dont have rockers yet let me know, I am considering going with some 1.7s on my intake and leaving my current 1.6s on my exhaust. We might be able to work something out if you need a split ratio setup.

LMK on the rockers.

OMINOUS_87

Comp 987.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

What was done? well I started with the right tools, a scratch awl, a torch and a big set of metric wrenches from k-mart. no wait. that was working on my sister's volvo. i will take some pics tonight at work to show you. I took out the sharp edges, smoothed the surface on the exhaust. cut off the bottoms of the valve guides and blended in the surounding area. let me get a pick and you can see what you think.

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

here.....

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

and...

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

and more...

OMINOUS_87

Lookin good!

What did you match the intake ports to, a 1204 or 1205?

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

1204 or 1205? ya lost me... but hey. better pics....

mike graycar

iTrader: (2)

and....

OMINOUS_87

What gasket size were the intake ports matched to? Most folks use a Felpro 1204 or 1205, 1205 is bigger. Or maybe you used something else.