usa1racing

Looking for opinions on best Gen 1 SBC 23*, non-raised runner head. Heads under consideration:

Brodix Track 1
Dart Pro 1 215cc
AFR 210cc Race-ready
AFR 220cc Race-ready
All-Pro standard port 220cc 23* head
Edelbrock Victor Jr.
Canfield/Jegs 220cc
Canfield/Jegs 215cc
Trick Flow 215cc

Pro-lightnings seem to be a little hard to come by nowadays. Car will be primarily used for racing. 355, pump gas, Solid roller, .645/.630, 260/264@0.050, 10-11:1, Tunnel ram with 2-450 mech. secondary, 4-speed, 4.88 gear, trying to operate in the 3000-7000 rpm range with a self-imposed limit of 7k rpm. Looking for 550+ flywheel. Also, must have something that has potential left to grow into. Advice?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Id say AFR's. Something like competition ported heads 210's are real nice. 210's and 220's flow crazy at high lifts. I dont know what else is left for porting with AFR or other heads but based on adverstised flow numbers and some engine combos i seen, AFR's alway been best.

Chrome

Brodix Track 1 would get my vote

usa1racing

I was counting on a lot of AFR responses. My only concern with AFR is that since they're already CNC ported (70-100%) is that if I need more flow out of them, there's no room for improvement. So to get the ~300cfm that I could eventually be looking for, I would have to use the 220cc head which I'm afraid would kill the port velocity on a 350 inch engine in the RPM range I'd be using currently. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

usa1racing

Chrome, what are your reasons for choosing Brodix over the others?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The 210's competition ported heads are 100% CNC'd intake and exhaust ports, and chambers. Flow 293 at .650" Not bad at all. The 220's flow 300 at .650. Do you really need 300cfm. Just asking. Should be able to squeeze 300 cfm out of the 210's.

usa1racing

I'm pretty sure I won't be needing the 300cfm right now, but I'd like to have the capability later on. I guess the extra 7cfm of the 220cc over the 210cc wouldn't be worth the slower port velocity I'd have with the bigger runner. Plus the AFR's have pretty impressive low-lift numbers.

383backinblack

what makes the AFR's superior to other heads is first they have ridiculous flow....more importantly is the port velocity.

generally you can use a bigger AFR head than another company with no drop off on the bottom end.

people are using the new 227cc race heads on street 383's with big cams and not having really lazy low end.

i have 210's and mine is making over 500 at the crank, so they get my vote

gilley's86

Why not go with a set of Brodix WP SP RI's instead. Still a set of 23 degree heads, but have up to 2.125 intake valves, 1.600 exhaust, and flow up 240 cc's. Made out of aluminum. Good chance they are still cheaper than AFR's too. Just my .02.

Gilley

383backinblack

if all your going to do is race, and build a motor that will rev all the time those will probably work well

but, if you want to make any power at lower RPM, then port design is much more important than overall size, because its the port velocity that you should be concerned with over maximum flow.

anyone can make a port flow tons of air, but making it move fast at the same time is another thing all together

Cruz'N Bruz'R

I watched a set of ported ProLighnings 200cc and a large solid roller cam with a Victor Jr. intake put over 700hp on a 383ci.

I have the unported 200cc Pro's on a 10.7:1 383ci. with a XE 274 cam and I got tonnes of off idle power and snap.

They're a pretty good head. they may not flow as well as AFR's out of the box, but have much more potential than the CNC'd AFR's do.

COPOZL1

I'd either go with the Brodix Track 1's , Dart Pro's or the AFR220'S. AFR's seem to be the rave these days so dont just go with them b/c of all the hype. Not saying they're bad cause they're not. Cant go wrong with CNC heads. But Brodix and Dart have been around a while and they have a ton of head selections depends on application and use. Um...oh yeah what are you going to uses this motor for again? Is it Circle track racing? Cause Dart and Brodix make a specific for that. Check it out.

383firebird

I have fully ported brodix track 1s on my 383 and they work great. That being said, the person who did all the work to my heads has since become an authorized AFR dealer and thinks they are the best.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

Of course if he deals with them now, he's gonna ***** them out more then any other. It equals potential buisiness.

383firebird

He can and will get any head you would want. My point was that he wouldn't have chosen to deal AFR if he didn't feel they were the top of the line

Chrome

383firebird

usa1racing

I think I may have it narrowed down to 4 options: AFR 220cc, AFR 210cc, Canfield/Jegs 215cc, and Canfield/Jegs 220cc. I like the deck thickness of the AFR heads and have heard about some thin casting issues with the Canfield/Jegs heads. I'm looking for some out-of-the-box flow numbers for the Canfield/Jegs, as the numbers posted on www.canfieldheads.com are after some minor work. I'm concerned about either of the 220cc heads being too over the top for what I'm trying to do. Now, if I can get similar flow with either 220cc head considering the out of the box flow numbers for the Canfield heads, which to choose? There's only a $150 price difference between the two brands. I'm still trying to get two basic questions answered: The durability of the Canfield/Jegs castings is in question. Secondly, how much potential for more flow is left in any of the 4 head choices mentioned above?

rednblackrs

iTrader: (3)

This question has been the last of every thread about canfields that I can find. Its really annoying people downing the quality of canfields and then not backing it up with somekind of proof or at least a horror story. I finally have the money to get a set of good heads and all i hear is AFR bla bla. Yeah they are great but will the canfields crack the first time I start it? Thin castings? They flow equal pretty much across the board for 300 cheaper for me thats a full set of nice full roller 1.6 rockers.

What I really want to know is if the wait for the AFR's that are much more expensive is worth it. Compared to instant gratification for cheaper and a nicer valvetrain with almost equal flow. Probably more with the 1.6's(same cam of course)

I love the sound of both of them and have about 1500 to blow.

Sorry just tired of reading "Canfield heads arent durable....Thin castings...easily cracked....bla bla bla...." end of thread no questions

Here is my question......where did anybody read about Canfields being weak? Dont say because AFR uses 3/4" decks either. I want somebody to say "I bought Canfield's and they sucked nuts" and then prove it.

ljnowell

Honestly, I have seen many engines built with canfields and not a single one of them had any problems with the heads. They make good quality heads. I know for a while they lagged behind in R and D, but as of late they have been back at it pretty good.

FWIW, I knew a guy that ran the new jegs aluminum 215? I think, the biggest one that doesnt require special rocker arms. That car ran like a scalded dog. There were no problems with them.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I had no wait for my AFR eliminators. Got them from AD performance and within a week and a half i had them in. Upgraded to the better springs for 100 bucks. roughly 1565 shipped for them. 1450 plus 100 upgrade plus like 15 dollars handling with free shipping! I cant complain since the valvetrain is lighter than every other aftermarket heads out there, and much stronger springs for very aggressive cams. You cant beat that IMO

383backinblack

the answer to these questions is simple, but people keep asking them again and again.....

AFR developed the best port out there......flow has very little to do with it, its an extremely efficient port that has outstanding flow WITH excellent port velocity.

thats why the AFR's beat comparable heads on the same motor pretty much every time......port design.

theres alot more to a cylinder head than max flow, and runner CC's

rednblackrs

iTrader: (3)

Hey, same question? I searched forever and finally found the same thing for the 100'th time and just posted.

I'm glad someone finally praised Canfields. thanks ljnowell

Understood on that 383BIB. There is always more that what is advertised. My question wasnt really why are AFR's Great (Because they are). I was questioning the quality of Canfields. Every thread that I searched ended in the same Frame of mind....

"AFR's and Canfields flow close to each other but the Canfields have questionable quality"

And that would be the end of every thread on this entire board. Nobody cared to state why canfields werent worth it.

An educated decision is hard to come by when nobody wants to educate on that one huge point.

Orr89 --Thats awesome that you had yours in a week. I will definetely check them out. And the valvetrain is also a big plus to the AFR's as far as valves and springs goes.

This old thread just happened to be worth something.

Tough decision with so much money at stake. For somebody like me that has been saving forever.

shaggy56

I dont think there is a best. Every head will work best with whatever combination you have. I dont own AFR heads but they seem like a good fully cnced head. Any cnced head is going to make good power. Most heads are usually casted from a cnc pattern then bowl blended. Patriot heads come to mind with their bowl blended head for $800. They also seem to have pretty good low lift numbers as well as numerous other heads. Other heads will most likely need a cleanup to get the advertised flow numbers which most heads do not come with. Valvetrain will also play to the advertised flow numbers of any head. I would look for actual CCs of the ports and dimension of each head to get the best power at whatever combination your after. Take all advertised flow numbers with a grain of salt because most heads as cast will flow differently. AFR heads will most likely flow closer to advertised since they work them. But any head manufacture who is able to port and flow there heads for a cost is always a bonus and their are a few now.

It does make a difference who does the porting also because their are guys like Joe Sherman who ports heads that will flow beyond anything I have ever seen.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

AFR seems to be close to advertised flow numbers. I know Dyno Don has flowed some and they are spot on! Thats good to know. I was gonna have mine flowed til i seen some results from others showing similar flow as advertised.

Even better heads would probly be TEA's ported AFR's and ported Trickflows. All Pro heads seem to have some good looking heads i just havent seen any numbers on them yet.