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Same old ****. Flawed repros at jacked up prices. Even allowing for inflation these are several times more expensive than when the "stealership" could still order them.
I'm not sure I've ever read a positive review on an OER part. Maybe, but I'd guess it's 4:1 negative on the quality of their parts. Bruce's parts may cost more, but if they are a better quality part, then I'd say it's money well spent. Time will tell once we start seeing a few of these installed and get some consumer feedback.
Drew Why all the hate , obviously you don't have one of these and are clearly speaking on situations in which you have zero facts on the process nor the cost !
Originally Posted by Drew
Same old ****. Flawed repros at jacked up prices. Even allowing for inflation these are several times more expensive than when the "stealership" could still order them.
Last edited by hawksthirdgen; 09-16-2022 at 10:45 AM.
Drew Why all the hate , obviously you don't have one of these and are clearly speaking on situations in which you have zero facts on the process nor the cost !
Drew Why all the hate , obviously you don't have one of these and are clearly speaking on situations in which you have zero facts on the process nor the cost !
Drew never misses a chance to make a fool of himself 😆. You can't order these anymore from the dealership so that point is mute. If you don't like the price Drew don't order it. Its that simple. Easy to discount others labor and leg work. You expect 90s prices in 2022?
Not to be a dic, this not a rant at hawks, but the bowtie grills have the same sku (10139545) which leads me to believe they are one in the same (OER). Correct me if im wrong though, but if so, why would the quality be any different.
Not to be a dic, this not a rant at hawks, but the bowtie grills have the same sku (10139545) which leads me to believe they are one in the same (OER). Correct me if im wrong though, but if so, why would the quality be any different.
Not to be a dic, this not a rant at hawks, but the bowtie grills have the same sku (10139545) which leads me to believe they are one in the same (OER). Correct me if im wrong though, but if so, why would the quality be any different.
something told me that was the case. The exact product is probably distributed and then sold by 10+ companies
Hmmmm.....same situation as the 17" R15 repo wheels - as soon as the Hawks 18" R15 repo wheels hit the market, the 17" size became unavailable (on back order) everywhere - I see a trend here
Hmmmm.....same situation as the 17" R15 repo wheels - as soon as the Hawks 18" R15 repo wheels hit the market, the 17" size became unavailable (on back order) everywhere - I see a trend here
It's no coincidence that Hawks and OER offer the same parts. This isn't a "new" offering, it's just a new production run of the same old part that's been incorrect for restorations, for over a decade. It's just $100 more expensive now, for whatever reason, than it was a few years ago.
This is a discussion forum, not all the discussion about a new reproduction part is going to be complimentary. Some of us expect a part with a premium price to be accurate. The "hate" comes from seeing the same trends over and over from the aftermarket that caters to these cars. Consistently the parts are overpriced, poor quality, and poor substitutes for the original parts they're intended to replace. It's frustrating that Hawks, or whoever doesn't seem to care about the feedback from the community.
The problem is going to be availability. The cheap price you see on oers site and some of there other vendors will never come to fruition. You try to order and I can bet you will never receive it, at that price. So in comes Hawks. They have them in stock and at at higher price. Brings back memories of the 17 inch firehawk wheels. Well why is that? Does Hawks have special availability through OER? Whatever it may be its noticeable. It always starts small and eventually that greedy buisness model swallows a company. I won't tell a buisness what to charge or what to make. But if the distributor system is rigged that the advertised price on OERs website can never be relised or satisfied through another vendor of OER. Well it just seems fishy. No one has in stock but Hawks and at double the advertised price of OER.
Don't order. Let them sit on their marked up parts.
The problem is going to be availability. The cheap price you see on oers site and some of there other vendors will never come to fruition. You try to order and I can bet you will never receive it, at that price. So in comes Hawks. They have them in stock and at at higher price. Brings back memories of the 17 inch firehawk wheels. Well why is that? Does Hawks have special availability through OER? Whatever it may be its noticeable. It always starts small and eventually that greedy buisness model swallows a company. I won't tell a buisness what to charge or what to make. But if the distributor system is rigged that the advertised price on OERs website can never be relised or satisfied through another vendor of OER. Well it just seems fishy. No one has in stock but Hawks and at double the advertised price of OER.
Don't order. Let them sit on their marked up parts.
Dont beat up Hawks too bad, IMO, they do a good job supporting our cars, I know Bruce, he is a good guy that has built an incredible empire from the ground up. I cant even imagine his costs involved in running that business, bringing a part into his system, and marketing it, etc. IMO, I'd much rather buy from Hawks than Classic industries because I feel Hawks has better customer service, support, shipping, etc and personally, I'm willing to pay more for that higher level of service. I have no idea why Classic Industries list OER parts (like the 17" repo R15 wheels) on their web site and then says they are on "indefinite back order" why not just remove them from their web site?
Does OER manufacture all these parts and then distributes them to different vendors to sell?? I would guess this is the case, maybe Hawks is a "preferred vendor" with OER ??
I'm glad we have Hawks providing parts for a community which is essentially ignored. But I really wish they provided better parts. More correct parts. Remember my TPI emblem thread from several years ago. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...roduction.html The manufacturer of those emblems posted in that thread and actually emailed me saying that they would redesign them and send me a sample. That's the last I heard of them, and we still have the same incorrect emblems being sold by all the companies and being bought by thirdgenners.
Thank you Hawks for doing what you do, but I just wish you could do better than just buying up old stocks of parts and reselling them. The Fox Mustang guys have various places that sell accurate parts for a reasonable price. LMR for example. https://lmr.com/products/Popular-Fox...toration-Parts
I'm glad we have Hawks providing parts for a community which is essentially ignored. But I really wish they provided better parts. More correct parts. Remember my TPI emblem thread from several years ago. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...roduction.html The manufacturer of those emblems posted in that thread and actually emailed me saying that they would redesign them and send me a sample. That's the last I heard of them, and we still have the same incorrect emblems being sold by all the companies and being bought by thirdgenners.
Thank you Hawks for doing what you do, but I just wish you could do better than just buying up old stocks of parts and reselling them. The Fox Mustang guys have various places that sell accurate parts for a reasonable price. LMR for example. https://lmr.com/products/Popular-Fox...toration-Parts
The 3rd gen community needs it's own LMR.
I agree - some of the repo parts are not even close in appearance to the OEM part - IMO, why waste the time and effort if it looks different - I can live with slight differences for parts you dont really see but parts like emblems, trim, etc, that easily stands out should be spot on repo's - as to the topic here, (camaro repo grille) I have no idea how / why they got that wrong -
I guess an exact repo was not what they were shooting for?
I agree - some of the repo parts are not even close in appearance to the OEM part - IMO, why waste the time and effort if it looks different - I can live with slight differences for parts you dont really see but parts like emblems, trim, etc, that easily stands out should be spot on repo's - as to the topic here, (camaro repo grille) I have no idea how / why they got that wrong -
I guess an exact repo was not what they were shooting for?
It seems they simply bought up all the stocks of existing parts and are reselling them.
It's no coincidence that Hawks and OER offer the same parts. This isn't a "new" offering, it's just a new production run of the same old part that's been incorrect for restorations, for over a decade. It's just $100 more expensive now, for whatever reason, than it was a few years ago.
This is a discussion forum, not all the discussion about a new reproduction part is going to be complimentary. Some of us expect a part with a premium price to be accurate. The "hate" comes from seeing the same trends over and over from the aftermarket that caters to these cars. Consistently the parts are overpriced, poor quality, and poor substitutes for the original parts they're intended to replace. It's frustrating that Hawks, or whoever doesn't seem to care about the feedback from the community.
Hi Drew ,
What do you base your opinion of overpriced on ? what facts of cost of reproducing a part do you have ? Honestly it seems more frustrating that overall our response for reproduction parts is very very good just seems a small group ALWAYS has a issue with what is preproduced, do you have facts of the steps we take or of why we choose a certain finish on a part , as a whole communication works way better than putting something down that does not meet your particular expectation , I am not upset just stating the facts that most all is based on a opinions and not knowledge of facts here . Happy to discuss further if you like feel free to call the office and ask for me. Thanks again to all of our customer base as this is not at our customer base as a whole just want there to be a full thought process to the process of a reproduction part and not just false opinions . I am sure this will strike a cord with some but think about what I am saying .
Happy to discuss further if you like feel free to call the office and ask for me.
I would like to call to discuss your 82-84 shifter plate reproduction piece. Should I ask for Bruce? Don’t want to get off topic here but that piece is great except the “automatic overdrive” font not being correct. Seems like that could be an easy fix with a font editing program. I’d be happy to help fix this product.
I'm glad we have Hawks providing parts for a community which is essentially ignored. But I really wish they provided better parts. More correct parts. Remember my TPI emblem thread from several years ago. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...roduction.html The manufacturer of those emblems posted in that thread and actually emailed me saying that they would redesign them and send me a sample. That's the last I heard of them, and we still have the same incorrect emblems being sold by all the companies and being bought by thirdgenners.
Thank you Hawks for doing what you do, but I just wish you could do better than just buying up old stocks of parts and reselling them. The Fox Mustang guys have various places that sell accurate parts for a reasonable price. LMR for example. https://lmr.com/products/Popular-Fox...toration-Parts
The 3rd gen community needs it's own LMR.
I looked at your TPI thread. How some of you get through life is amazing. I would have never known there was a difference and can barely tell something about the right side is different (because it was pointed out)
When you can ignore stuff like that, life is so much easier. Your car probably looks amazing
I am glad that Hawks is offering these reproduction grilles, glossy or not. Sure the price is high but it's simple laws of economics....supply and demand. If he has the supply and the demand is there at that price, they will sell them. I have had one on order from Jeg's (yes it ultimately comes from OER) since March of 2022 for $39.00. It is still on backorder and gets moved out 30 days out each month. I have just finished my third gen's restoration and this is the last detail I want. I've made the decision to wait on Jeg's but my patience is wearing thin. It's all personal decision and how bad you want/need one of these grilles. I appreciate Hawk's commitment to the third gen F-Body. This is my 91 RS with the grill I bought back in the mid 90s. Not bad but I want, not need, a new one.
Let me be the first to say "Thank you" to Hawks for actually having these in stock and sending out a marketing email to let me know. There is nothing worse for me than going onto a supplier's website, seeing the product you want, adding it to your cart, then seeing the out of stock notification....for months, if not years. I ordered one on Tuesday and it is being delivered today. Cannot beat their customer service, shipping or communication. I would rather pay a little more for the piece of mind of dealing with a quality company, than being cheap and getting hosed on any purchase. Side note: TimRS, your Camaro looks wicked. Well done, man!
We're saddened to see such a fuss over our reproduction parts. We do what we do because it is our passion, and because of our love for F-Bodies, in particular, Third Generations.
Regarding the finish of the grilles, over time, there were many variations in finish. We chose to go with the gloss finish.
Regarding price… we tooled our own molds from original GM grilles. There is a very high initial cost just for tooling and the mold, that isn't even part of the cost of a run when the final product is actually produced. It is quite expensive to reproduce items, and since COVID-19, reproduction has become even more expensive due to supply chain issues, and material increases. We have priced accordingly.
BizJetTech & IROCZ1989: The 17” OER Firehawk reps had been on back-ordered for quite some time before we introduced our 18x10s to the public. Our Firehawk reps are not the OER wheels. OERs are still on backorder. Also, we made our replicas in a bigger size (which deviates from original) for customers to run a bigger brake system, which is becoming quite common. We have our own cost of production regarding our wheels, because they are not the OER wheels, and we price them accordingly.
OER is a sister company of Classic Industries. OER wholesales to dealers like us, and also offer their own parts to the public through Classic Industries.
DynoDave43: we posted a video (on our social media) from a customer whom installed their grille. It appears he is happy with the final product, and the fitment. The gloss finish and red bowtie look great on his red IROC-Z.
84 1LE & IROCZ1989: That 8 digit part number is the GM part number. The grille we reproduced is not OER’s grille, it is our own reproduction. I’ve spoken with Classic regarding their sister company’s (OER) grille. They have no ETA on their grille.
While we are aware we won’t be able to make everyone happy, we’re trying to bring products available to the Third Gen community, and do have your best interest in mind at all times. Please, always reach out to us via our customer service if you need assistance. If you call in, please hit the prompt for customer service (not sales) so we can try to take care of you as quickly as possible. We’re here to help!
We're saddened to see such a fuss over our reproduction parts. ..................
Thanks for taking time to reply with some answers to our questions and concerns.
I think the majority of the group here appreciates what you do, having some open dialog with our questions and concerns will help a lot.
I did not realize your R15 wheels are not made by OER, thanks for clearing that up.
I looked at your TPI thread. How some of you get through life is amazing. I would have never known there was a difference and can barely tell something about the right side is different (because it was pointed out)
When you can ignore stuff like that, life is so much easier. Your car probably looks amazing
Things that would make me feel like we are making some progress.
1) Emblems that look deadnuts like factory ones.
2) Hawk's offering these grills in a matte/satin finish like the factory did. Nothing wrong with also offering the gloss ones, especially if folks want to make their cars their own.
Hi Drew ,
What do you base your opinion of overpriced on ?
28 years with thirdgens. Comparing your prices to other sources for decades. Comparing the thirdgen reproduction market to brand F reproductions. A person doesn't have to look hard with a critical eye to see Hawk's prices are consistently higher than alternatives.
what facts of cost of reproducing a part do you have ?
None. Aside from what other vendors have sold similar parts for in the past. Maybe hyper-inflation is responsible for the price hike, maybe the same part will pop up on half a dozen other sites and Ebay in a couple months.
Honestly it seems more frustrating that overall our response for reproduction parts is very very good just seems a small group ALWAYS has a issue with what is preproduced, do you have facts of the steps we take or of why we choose a certain finish on a part , as a whole communication works way better than putting something down that does not meet your particular expectation , I am not upset just stating the facts that most all is based on a opinions and not knowledge of facts here . Happy to discuss further if you like feel free to call the office and ask for me. Thanks again to all of our customer base as this is not at our customer base as a whole just want there to be a full thought process to the process of a reproduction part and not just false opinions . I am sure this will strike a cord with some but think about what I am saying .
The thirdgen community will always be populated by some that are perfectly happy cutting a giant hole in the floor, and cutting fuel lines to change a fuel pump, or painting their cars with rollers and Rustoleum. Those people I'm sure couldn't care less about the font of reproduction emblems, or the gloss vs matte finish of a grille, or the other minutia that send some of us go into OCD fits. For some of us the details matter, and the feedback always seems to fall upon deaf ears. As a general rule, I'm not going to waste your time and mine by calling to question why something isn't right, or give direct feedback. I simply will abstain from buying your products and voice my opinions to fellow enthusiasts so they know that the part they're looking at isn't exactly correct, because to some of us it matters. Personally I'd rather read that a part is slightly off and save myself the frustration of ordering a part and only being disappointed when it comes out of the box. It's that community thing, if I'd want to know, so would someone else. If someone like Chazman wants to take the time to liaise, and communicate the feedback from here to there, that's great. I can appreciate Hawk's contributions to the community, what you're doing is commendable, it's just frustrating that the parts consistently fall short of expectations under scrutiny.
28 years with thirdgens. Comparing your prices to other sources for decades. Comparing the thirdgen reproduction market to brand F reproductions. A person doesn't have to look hard with a critical eye to see Hawk's prices are consistently higher than alternatives.
None. Aside from what other vendors have sold similar parts for in the past. Maybe hyper-inflation is responsible for the price hike, maybe the same part will pop up on half a dozen other sites and Ebay in a couple months.
The thirdgen community will always be populated by some that are perfectly happy cutting a giant hole in the floor, and cutting fuel lines to change a fuel pump, or painting their cars with rollers and Rustoleum. Those people I'm sure couldn't care less about the font of reproduction emblems, or the gloss vs matte finish of a grille, or the other minutia that send some of us go into OCD fits. For some of us the details matter, and the feedback always seems to fall upon deaf ears. As a general rule, I'm not going to waste your time and mine by calling to question why something isn't right, or give direct feedback. I simply will abstain from buying your products and voice my opinions to fellow enthusiasts so they know that the part they're looking at isn't exactly correct, because to some of us it matters. Personally I'd rather read that a part is slightly off and save myself the frustration of ordering a part and only being disappointed when it comes out of the box. It's that community thing, if I'd want to know, so would someone else. If someone like Chazman wants to take the time to liaise, and communicate the feedback from here to there, that's great. I can appreciate Hawk's contributions to the community, what you're doing is commendable, it's just frustrating that the parts consistently fall short of expectations under scrutiny.
I don't mind doing it. I guess for a while, anyway. I did feel Bruce was being sincere in his statement that he cares about the accuracy and quality of these products. We also talked about LMR and the Mustang market. Let's face it, the Fox market is larger than the 3rd gen market. Why that is, is open to conjecture. But with said, if you order an emblem, an interior switch or a doodad from LMR for your Fox, it is literally indistinguishable from a factory piece. And yes, the Mustang community has hackers and hackery just like the 3rd gen community, who don't care if a part looks perfect or not, but even they benefit from perfect parts.
So, these are a couple easy things I'd like to see. It doesn't have to necessarily be Bruce who does this, but I consider Bruce a leader here. And let's face it, he's the only one who cared enough to reach out to us. So even though it doesn't have to be Bruce, it would be good if it were Bruce.
So I'd start with this. I'd call Dave Clee from PW Distribution. He runs the company which manufactures the emblems everyone is selling as their own. I'd get on the phone and say, hey brother, you publicly and privately promised chazman over 5 years ago that you'd be re-doing your emblems to be better and more accurate. We're still waiting. Any updates?
I'd also release some of these new grills in a factory matte finish. Sure it may cost a few bucks, but let's see where it goes.
There are some people who will never be happy with these aftermarket parts. These are people who will only MAYBE be happy if you hand them a brand new GM part still in the box, for FREE. This is because they are happy to ignore the flaws and such found in even original GM parts. Take a look at post #19 in the companion thread to this in History/Originality forum. Point being, you can scream and fuss all you want about these aftermarket parts but even these parts and the cars themselves came from GM with imperfections or poor workmanship. It was the 1980s for crying out loud! If you are only willing to accept perfection you will live a miserable and unfulfilling life.
As for the price, it does seem high at $250 but in case you haven't noticed inflation is out of control thanks to our government printing money like there is no tomorrow. Some of the idiots on this board voted for this. I'll be one of the first to complain about aftermarket parts, but my issues have to do with quality and not cosmetic perfection. I can keep a car running forever if you keep me supplied with well made parts.
There are some people who will never be happy with these aftermarket parts. These are people who will only MAYBE be happy if you hand them a brand new GM part still in the box, for FREE. This is because they are happy to ignore the flaws and such found in even original GM parts. Take a look at post #19 in the companion thread to this in History/Originality forum. Point being, you can scream and fuss all you want about these aftermarket parts but even these parts and the cars themselves came from GM with imperfections or poor workmanship. It was the 1980s for crying out loud! If you are only willing to accept perfection you will live a miserable and unfulfilling life.
As for the price, it does seem high at $250 but in case you haven't noticed inflation is out of control thanks to our government printing money like there is no tomorrow. Some of the idiots on this board voted for this. I'll be one of the first to complain about aftermarket parts, but my issues have to do with quality and not cosmetic perfection. I can keep a car running forever if you keep me supplied with well made parts.
Quality parts that fit is worthy of it's own thread. I just replace a high pressure AC fan switch for one of my cars. The replacement part available from Rock/NAPA/O'reilleys/etc., didn't fit the factory connector. There was one source for a correct part. A guy on ebay selling NOS GM parts. I had to pay up $150 shipped for a $25 switch, because he had the only part in available.
BTW, post #19 on the other thread you mentioned, with the failed glossy grill, is not the same OEM one which were on our cars. It was the reproduction one which GM started selling a decade or so after our cars were out of production.
Quality parts that fit is worthy of it's own thread. I just replace a high pressure AC fan switch for one of my cars. The replacement part available from Rock/NAPA/O'reilleys/etc., didn't fit the factory connector. There was one source for a correct part. A guy on ebay selling NOS GM parts. I had to pay up $150 shipped for a $25 switch, because he had the only part in available.
BTW, post #19 on the other thread you mentioned, with the failed glossy grill, is not the same OEM one which were on our cars. It was the reproduction one which GM started selling a decade or so after our cars were out of production.
Next time try asking NAPA to order what you need, you just need to find a counter rep willing to look it up in their system. It usually comes in quickly
Next time try asking NAPA to order what you need, you just need to find a counter rep willing to look it up in their system. It usually comes in quickly
Would you believe I had to go through that to get an alternator with the right electrical connector for my '89 convertible? On the third one the NAPA guy said why don't cut the connector off the car and splice a new one. I said no way, it's a 7,200 mile car. They finally contacted the manufacturer and spoke to an engineer and they needed to order a '90 alternator. Weird.
09-15-2022, 08:56 AM
