70's iron

Hi

I just discovered this new (I guess) kit for our F-babies...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-140-2992-BD/

Wilwood says they work with either manual or power brakes. Seems to be the kit I was waiting for a while !

And 10.75, or even 11" rotors ( 2 diameters available) should fit my 15'' Turbo Cast, don't they ?

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iTrader: (14)

those rotors are only .81 thick. They are meant for drag race only. The will not last very long at all on the street because they will overheat very fast.

Drag only.

70's iron

Ah, bad...

Even drilled and slotted ?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

those rotors drilled an slotted with any street use will shorten their life even more.

70's iron

Well... Nevermind.

Thanks for the advice.

You made me avoid a big mistake.

Instead I sent a mail to BAER to get the overall diameter of their Sport system.

I may be the single fool to wish performance brakes behind Knight Rider 15'' wheels...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

An 11" x .81" rotor isn't all that much different, if at all, from the stock rotors. Which are 10.4" x 1". So I don't see it as much of an downgrade. You end up with 4-piston aluminum calipers. Which are worlds better then the stock C.I. caliper.

However, there is more to a brake upgrade then those numbers. Really need to look at the piston area in comparison to the stock calipers. Along with the difference in leverage due to the change in rotor size.

Note that the popular C4 standard brake upgrade uses dual piston PBR calipers and 12" x .81" rotors. And these are worlds above the stock 10.4" brakes. Baer does sell a kit with the same or similar specs as that upgrade.

They also fit under most 15" rims.

RBob.

70's iron

What an answer !
So, Wilwoods are good, but C4s as well, right ?

I may find C4 parts, here in France, but how easy are they to install ? Custom works are always risky here, even from good professionals. Bolt-on is safer...

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i actually though they were solid not vented rotors, i guess i should read more.

anyway, they are still a little thin for the street, i would never use them, especially on a heavy 3rd gen

as for wilwood brakes, there is nothing wrong with wilwood brakes, in fact they make some of the best calipers around, but this particular kit is not quite ideal.

with the appropriate modification to the spindle hub and custom brackets, you can use 4th gen brakes, c4 c5 c6 and all kinda of different setups.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

You might consider checking with Ed Miller about his kits and your requirement.

JamesC

70's iron

JamesC, I once asked Ed about his kits, and thought they were pricey. Especially for no-brand parts.

I just went on Flynbye Perf website, following your idea. Now, I'm more convinced about their value. Lines, cables, proportioning valve, PBR calipers are included. I didn't now that back then...

Ed seems very popular on the forum. Okay, I send him another PM when my car is apart...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

OK, Wilwoods site is available (wasn't when I first posted). Check out the system specs:

http://wilwood.com/BrakeKitsProdFron...no=140-2992-BD

Everything you need to know is there. I mentioned piston area. The Wilwood is 4.81 SqIn vs 4.43 SqIn for the stock brakes. This will provide slightly more braking with the same pedal pressure.

The hubs are aluminum which will also reduce un-sprung weight. One item to watch, and is highlighted, is the offset difference at the face of the hub. This is where you need to look at the system as a whole. A different offset wheel is going to be required.

But as a system, if purchasing wheels also, then not an issue. Also, maybe look around their site to see what they have in a system with 12" rotors. If they fit inside a 15" wheel all the better.


C4 system: this is what I put on my car. Basically gathered the parts, made the brackets, modded the spindles and rotors (for hubs) and bolted it up. If staying with stock 15" wheels this is also a good upgrade. There really isn't much else that will fit inside the 15" wheel.

The C4 is Corvette '86 though '96 with standard brakes (12" rotor). Ed sells kits for this upgrade. I've said it before and will say it again, these are the brakes that should have been stock on the 3rd gens.

Note that there is also C4 heavy duty (HD) braking set up. They use larger calipers and 13" rotors. But do not fit inside 15" wheels.

RBob.

70's iron

This what i found on Flynbye's website :

Front

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i166.html

Rear :

http://www.flynbye.com/catalog/i157.html

So, according to James and Bob, this is good. No precision about piston pressure, tough...
Rotor thickness remains .81. But re-according to Bob, that ain't no drama, right ?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The piston area of the C4 PBR front calipers is less then that of the stock 3rd gen iron front calipers. However, the increased leverage of the larger rotor makes up for a portion of this.

It does take slightly higher pedal pressure but not enough to make a real difference. The real difference is that the brakes are more fade resistant, and the pedal feel is much better. When dealing with 15" wheels the options are limited.

Also note that if you are going from disc/drum to disc/disc the combo valve will need to be taken into account. Can either swap it for a disc/disc valve. Or, what I would do, is to eliminate it and place an adjustable proportioning valve on the line to the rear.

RBob.

70's iron

Well, being a Recaro Edition, my car is fully-loaded. Including factory 4-discs. But I heard that the 82-84 rear brakes were junk...

To be true, I can't tell my car brales badly. It's fair for a 27 years-old never restored F-body. Maybe thanks to Michelin tires and a new master cylinder ( the tube with a tank above).

But pedal feeling is like nightmare. Before the car actually brakes, I got to press strong and far.

Being a professional limousine driver, I just want to get pleasure driving this T/A, and brake feeling really needs improvement. Especially with more power.

SSBC also offers caliper-only upgrade systems :

http://www.ssbrakes.com/commerce/det....cfm?nPID=8679

But even with EBC pads and rotors, dunno about the real improvement...

Oh, Geez, with 15-inchers, I know I want something weird...

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The 82-88 Delco-Moraines have an awful reputation on TGO--perhaps because of the rears and recall--but with the fix in place, I thought they were fine. I upgraded to the 1LE set-up all around, not because I thought the old system was bad, but because I'm a foolish hobbyist.

Who knows, you might be well satisfied with new calipers, pads, lines and fluid.

JamesC

70's iron

Well... won't that cost as much as Flynbye's 4-wheel kit ?

Think I'll buy it. All my factory parts are rusty, noisy, probably stuck. Parking brake is a mirage (almost no effect). Even the brake light remains lit while I got 1/3 of an inch pad thickness.

It's time for a complete overhaul...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Those are a bad choice for an upgrade. The piston area is even less then the C4 PBR calipers and will be using the stock rotor. Which means less braking with the same pedal pressure. You would need to change out the master cylinder to one with a smaller bore to get the brake pressure back.

RBob.

70's iron

Aaaaah, you raise another question I was wondering about : master cylinder and brake booster !!!

With upgraded rotors, pads, lines, you name it, will the factory-weak cylinder/booster be enough ?

Especially considering an engine swap. I'm just wondering if my creamy pedal-feeling is not due to the CFI-to-carb swap which -it's a pain for me- is a total miss...