theboilermaker

I have been working on swapping a 357 into my l98 87 305 with a cc q-jet. I have run into a problem with random inconsistent spark. I have run it down to the internals of the distributor. Should I buy a vacuum advance HEI from summit and run a non cc q-jet or not? What problems will I encounter? I know of the torque converter lockup. what about the tach? do I lose it? Thanks guys!!!

theboilermaker

I've continued to research this alittle bit and I am confused about two things. one, will any hei distributor give me the white wire for the tach? two, does the cc carb go dead with no computer control?

Daz

iTrader: (1)

all the distributors have the output for the tach

Dirty Dave

The CC carb will NOT go dead with a non-CC HEI dist if you do the following. (First some background).

If you just disconnect the CC dist, the computer & EST will see faults 42 & 43 and run full rich because it doesn't see any engine rpm or the signal from the ign module. You can get rid of the fault that puts the ECM in full-rich mode by just splitting your dist tach signal so that it goes to both your gauge and the EST. The ECM will still show the other error code because its not getting the EST control signal but that won't cause any engine running problems, just a constant Check Engine light.

I've tried to come up with a way to fool the EST into thinking the proper ignition module was present to get rid of the Check light but haven't had any success. Personally, I can live with the light at least until emissions time.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

What exactly do you mean by that? What have you replaced, if anything, in the stock distributor?

theboilermaker

I have replaced the cap and rotor. I have tried a new coil. The car will sometimes mysteriously have spark for about 5 minutes. the distributor was pretty crroded and dirty when I removed it from the 305. I have cleaned it up, but I'm not confident on it's status. Pouring over wiring diagrams it is really the only thing I can think of that makes a whole lot of since. Any other suggestions?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Ignition control module, 7 pin, mounted in the distributor. The factory ones give problems all the time. You can get standard aftermarket replacements like those from Autozone or Checker, or go with higher end stuff like Accel or Mallory. I've been running an Accel for almost 4 years with no problems.

theboilermaker

***running upstairs to look this instant****
I had not read about that yet. I'll be checking that out right away. Thanks again!

theboilermaker

I'm finding accel 8 pins on summit... is it 7 or 8 that I am looking for? I'll double check some other sources as well. Thanks for the lead!

theboilermaker

I just went to Exotic perfomance plus in town and picked up a new ICM. starts up every time. Thank You!!!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Glad to hear you got it going again.

Although too late for you, the Summit 7-pin #'s are ACC-35363 & PNX-D2001. (I was busy this weekend, didn't get around to the boards much.)

phoenix305

Its so much easier to just swap over to full mechanical ( aftermarket carb., vaccum advanced distributor,) but what ever floats your boat. Btw your timing will not advance if its not hooked up to the computer.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Disagree, and not true.

Replacing a module is a whole lot easier than replacing an intake manifold (or putting on an adapter), getting cables mounted to what they weren't intended to mount to, moving components to clear something that wasn't there in the original design, getting a non-CC EGR valve or finding something to block it off, etc., etc., etc. To say nothing about the cost.

The CC distributor will advance the timing with RPMs with the ECM disconnected. It just won't be enough for proper, normal operation.

FWIW, Daz & I may have been wrong in our assumptions. If this is an '87 CC system, it has the small cap distributor and remote coil. I didn't look up the module application for that.

phoenix305

you wouldn't need a different manifold. I did this conversion. All you would need was an adapter plate for the carb. and a vaccum advanced distributor. But then again the EGR valve was never computer controlled on my car. not to mention an EGR block off plate only costs like 12 bucks. I've never had problems with any component not clear anything on my manifold or carb. also the ALL of the stock linkage worked fine on the after market carb. I agree that him just replacing the module to get it running is a lot cheaper, but trying to get performance out of that system is point less. Not trying to flame on anyone just saying what expirence has taught me.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As my sig indicates, I suppose?

phoenix305

Are you talking about that 350 in your sig? Its running a 13.4 at sea level. well my 305 is is running a 13.9. I just think its much simpler to modify a carb. engine that all mechanical. just a different perspective. Do what ever works for you.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, the 350 in the Camaro. My daily driver.

People give up too quickly on the CC system. This is without doubt the best q-jet I've ever had, and I've had a bunch of them, starting with the 1st production q-jet in the 60's. To spend $500 or more (assuming new parts) to convert over to a non-CC system just doesn't make sense. To use anything other than a q-jet on a daily driver, which is the primary use of the vehicle, arguably isn't wise, either.

phoenix305

carb. adapter- pn TRD-2034; 19.75
vaccum advance distributor- pn SUM-850001R; 139.99
carburetor- pn EDL-1400; 265.95
not to bad if you ask me, but yeah the q- jet can work just as well, its just the way i went.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The originator has a TH700 tranny, so:

Torque converter lock-up TCI-376600 $76.88 (you can spend more)
Throttle cable brackets, EDL-8036 $24.88

That's $527.45, plus the order charge.

And you'll probably need tuning parts for the Performer.

Or, what was it, $40 for the module?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Oh, and new plug wires. The $139.99 HEI uses a different type than the small-cap '87 distributor.

phoenix305

yeah or you could splice the wires to the diagnostic port yourself. And most edelbrocks don't need a whole lot of tunning out of the box. i really don't care i'm just saying there is other and better IMHO ways of doing it.

Jetmeck

iTrader: (3)

ESC module can be intermittent also, keep that in mind.

Apeiron

So not only are you putting on a smaller carb, but you're not even going to tune it?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...cc-35362_m.jpg 8-pin, small cap, ACC-35362, $43.88.

For those who come across this in a search.

phoenix305

I said you usally won't need to tune it and its true on a mostly stock motor it should run just fine out of the box. Also how is a 600 cfm carb. smaller than a q-jet? how much do the q-jets flow stock.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

750-ish.