Brother Al

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http://pure-gas.org/
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Here's a Link for Ethnol-Free Gas Stations Across the USA and Canada...
And IF you find a station that has it in your area, PLEASE, Go to this site and post it up there! Thank You!

Thank You GPSkinshut-Jay for mentioning it and SAM, the site creator!
NEEDS STICK PLEASE!!!!

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

Great link. Nothing within 20 miles of me though.

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

Wow, there's a station not even 6 miles from me and I didn't even know it. I've passed this place all the time. I run a 10:1 compression 327 with a flat tappet cam in my '82. I need to find out what's the highest octane they have at this station. I've been running 10% 93 in it.

EDIT: just rechecked and it's listed on the site that 87 is the highest. I'll call them and see if that's still the highest. There's another about 23 miles from me that has 93.

82RZ

Good info Al but why Bother?

'Corn Juice' is in almost ALL Pump Gas Today. The fix you ask?

'SAFEGUARD' by Lucas Oil Products Inc. One oz. treats 5 Gallons of Pump Crap and IT WORKS!

Ask me how I know.............................

LHernandezJr

...

82RZ

You may be onto a new concept there Sir.............................................

Buy a 'Happy Meal' for the Kids and get a quart of Ethanol-Free Gasoline in a Pepsi Cup........

Enjoy Your Cars.

LHernandezJr

...

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

I wish I had the luxury of "real gas" in New Jersey.

Dakota W.

Now find a way to convert it into fuel

T/Aperformance

Why would you not want ethanol in your gasoline ?
Yes I know with ethanol you gas mileage is a bit more. But I run 95% ethanol and I use a third more of it than regular 93 octane gasoline, My engine runs cleaner, no build up residue like gasoline, And it cost so much less, it cost me $1.12 per gallon, so it is cheaper then even the lowest price gasoline, My octane rating is over 120, E85 is 105 octane, My engine runs cooler on ethanol than gasoline, as gas burn at 1300 degrees and ethanol burn at 1000 degrees . You can add more timing for more power, And if you add a supercharger or turbo well ethanol loves being boosted,
Now it is federal law that all gas sold in the USA must contain a certain % of ethanol, And its bean that way since the mid to late 70's every since they removed lead from gasoline.
So I would like to know one good reason, A ligit reason not to have ethanol in you gasoline ?

novaderrik

people like to blame their inability to properly tune their car on the evil ethanol that the evil government puts in their over priced gas..

82RZ

Because in a Non-Flex fuel vehicle it plays Havoc with seals, gaskets, etc... - in short, it drys everything out.

Whats in 'Dry-Gas'? Yep, Ethanol!

I've got NO problem with E85 or even E100 as long as the vehicle's fuel system is designed AND manufactured for it.

bestracing

Not to mention that Ethanol absorbs moisture and will cause rust in the fuel system for most early model vehicles. Unless you have specially coated rubber or plastic fuel lines you will have problems eventually.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A lot of wives' tales and urban legends being perpetuated here.

Ethanol absorbs water, true, but our fuel tanks aren't vented (unless you've vented yours), so the fuel in your tank isn't exposed to atmospheric moisture.

All soft fuel parts have been compatible with ethanol for a couple of decades now, including our 3rd gens.

I was running the '57 on E85 from '06 to '10 (spun a rod bearing in June '10, unrelated to E85 use). I ran larger line from the tank to the engine, and had an electric fuel pump, but other than that, it was a stock '57 tank and pickup. I didn't get around to draining the 5 gallons of E85 still in the tank until 2 nights ago. No rust in the system. And, that tank IS vented.

I don't have a problem with people wanting ethanol-free fuel, but I'm not going to sit by silent while untruths are propagated.

T/Aperformance

Yes ethanol will dry out your old gaskets and seals in your carb and your old fuel pump, but all new fuel pumps and new a new gasket kit for your old carb solves this problem As they are made to be used with ethanol.

T/Aperformance

The same moisture you are mentioning is in gasoline as well, the main corrosive agent in ethanol is what come off the first 2% of the distilling process and that stuff smells like fingernail polish, I can not remember what its called exactly but I use it as my parts cleaner, Now I'm sure some are thinking there is no lubrication additive in ethanol but it does have it. The lat 10% of the distillation process contains the oils that help your seals lubricated.
If you haven't guessed I do make my own Ethanol fuel. Its not hard and it i cheap compared to buying gasoline, You do need to have a special license to make it, And you get it from the federal government, but it is free, Your allowed to make 10,000 gallons of ethanol for fuel purpose, there is rules and guidelines you must fallow, but for fuel just over $1.12 per gallon I don't see why more people don't make there own

bestracing

My biggest concern with 3rd gens would be with the stock mechanical fuel pumps and if the diaphragm is compatible with Ethanol. Most things I have seen is probably not but nothing definite. Here is a link to a similar article I have read from a magazine I get from Hagerty's. http://www.americanrestomods.com/you...r-and-ethanol/

Some pointers from the link above:

• If your collector car is still in its original condition, consider replacing seals, gaskets and fuel lines with modern replacement materials since older fuel system components are often incompatible with ethanol-blended fuels.
• If it becomes necessary to replace fuel lines and other fuel system components, anything created after the mid 80’s will more than likely be suitable to contend with today’s fuels. If you want to believe the Renewable Fuels Association, preferred materials are Viton and fluoroelastomers such as Fluorel.
• Thereafter, once or twice a year closely check fuel hoses, fuel pumps and carburetors for any leaks or contamination.
• Be sure that you are using a 10-micron fuel filter and have spares on hand because you want to change it more frequently than usual. Ethanol is a solvent that dissolves resins, rust and dirt that have accumulated on older tank walls. This is especially important when first making the conversion to E10.
• Before you do anything, make sure your fuel tank is as clean as possible with no sediment or sludge. This can cause fuel system problems when you go to start her back up since over time ethanol in the fuel tends to re-liquefy the varnish from the bottom of the tank (as we mentioned above).
• One you have a clean tank, be sure your tank is full of gas. Ethanol is alcohol and will attract/absorb water into gas resulting in phase separation of fuel. The best way to prevent phase separation in E-10 is to keep it dry! That means keeping the tank filled to prevent condensation.
• Keeping any gasoline, including E10, as fresh as possible is very important. Mixing in a fuel stabilizer is a good habit to maintain since modern fuels break down faster than gasoline of the past.

I run Methanol in a dragster and I am all for Ethanol it's just people need to look at their car and see if it is compatible to use it. The old "racing braided fuel lines" would break down over time even with the old leaded gas but now with newer gasoline formulations and with the mix of Ethanol the rubber breaks down a lot quicker now. See Article here http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...s/viewall.html

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The last 3rd gen with a mechanical fuel pump came off the factory line in 1987. The mechanical fuel pump has always been one of the most replaced parts in American automotive history (not far behind points and condenser - which GM hasn't used since 1974). Ethanol use in gasoline started in the late 70's/early 80's, and automotive parts suppliers were quick to make their parts compatible with it (amazingly quick). The factory was no exception. The higher grade of "rubber" material required to withstand ethanol and gasoline had the dual effect of making them last longer.

I was in Nebraska from '82-'85, attending the University after getting out of the Army. We had two vehicles there, a 1976 Vega with a 1977 Buick V6 in it, and the '57 with a 283 in it. Both used mechanical fuel pumps. Nebraska had a subsidy program for ethanol which made 90 octane "gasahol" cheaper than 87 octane "pure" gasoline (still do, in fact). Being a poor student with a family, I chose cheaper. I never replaced the fuel pump in either. The Vega was wrecked in '84, and we got a '77 Monte Carlo to replace it. Same story, except I rebuilt the engine in the Monte and put a new fuel pump on it. Fuel filters were a different story, as the ethanol would break up the deposits straight gasoline had left in the fuel system - wasn't unusual to have to replace the fuel filter with every tank for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gasahol. After that, no problem.

So, show me a 3rd gen that has a mechanical pump with non-ethanol compatible diaphragm, or any other problem with ethanol in gas, and I'll show you a bridge I'll sell you - cheap.

petrolhead

The biggest problem I have with ethanol here in sunny socal, is vapor locking on carbed engines. I have a BBC carbed work truck, and I can't drive very far in the summer without it vapor locking.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's the gasoline, not the ethanol. Takes more heat to boil ethanol.

T/Aperformance

It's nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about,
gasoline starts to boil at 100 degrees while Ethanol starts to boil at 172 degrees.
petrolhead: If someone is having vapor lock the problem is not the ethanol in the fuel.
If you run E85 or better ethanol blend your automobile will actually run cooler.

bestracing: Your concerns are valid and I agree with what you've said. I do not run a carb in my T/A but in my 79 ford F250 I run a carb, When I bought it I used ethanol to flush out the fuel system installed a new tank because it was rusted out,I also coated the inside of the new tank, I did replace the fuel pump and replace the gaskets in the carb, but they leaked before when i first bought the truck, I also needed to re-jet my carb to run straight ethanol, In the last 7 years I've only replaced my fuel filter once. And have had no leaks in my fuel system or a fuel related problem.

82RZ

The only ethanol made in my neck of the woods doesn't go into vehicles. Nope........

It goes into one's mouth and into the Gut.

Its called 'Moonshine' aka 'White-lightening', 'Corn Liquor', etc...

bestracing

I had a 72 Camaro back in the mid 80's and we had 10% Ethanol (E10)in the cheap fuel here too. It had a fuel pump replaced in 82 by the previous owner and after I had owned it for 2 years, in 86, I had the pump go bad and started to spray oil out the vent hole. I just chalked it up to poor manufacturing at the time but later after reading about some problems with older cars and newer fuels I had to wonder what caused it. Can I say that Ethanol in the fuel caused it to fail? No I still say it was probably poor manufacturing, but I can not 100% rule it out either.


I run E10 in my T/A, no choice because of the area I live in and I do have to say after 4 years of just summer driving and 8K miles later when I just opened up my carb and it was really clean in the bowls and metering plate area.

midias

You should be ok in the fuel pumps. If not then any new pump should be ethanol ready.

That being said I just had to replace the main jets in my friends Jag because they were not ethanol compatible and they dried up and cracked.

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

Real gasoline should be 87-93 percent octane and the rest heptane, both of which boil over 200 degrees. So I guess they are substituting 10% of the of the octane with ethanol which also boils over 200 degrees. So why is my gasoline boiling at 130 degrees?

bestracing

Have you checked the routing of your fuel line? A lot of times over the years with repairs, lost heat shields and exhaust changes the fuel line winds up next to the exhaust and gets heated up. I would start there first.

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

Really it's the carb thats getting hot and boiling the fuel. I can fix it with a plastic spacer i believe. If the fuel had just a 20 degree higher boiling point I wouldn't have this problem.

82RZ

Interesting.........the main jets dried up?

I'am assuming your friend's Jag has a carburator and every one I've ever seen had metallic main jets in them. Other then getting a little crud in them, there is not much that can go wrong.

However, I'am always open to learning something new so please educate me and explain how a 'main jet' can dry up and crack.

Thanks in advance.

bestracing

Fuel getting heated up before entering the carb can also contribute to this as well. On 87 3rd gens the stock carb system has an in tank electric pump as well as a mechanical pump to help prevent a similar vapor lock symptom as well.

On +90 days here I never had my T/A get above 200 with the stock system. I'm in the Ohio river valley which is ~700' above sea level and on our hot days like that humidity is through the roof here.

midias

So the British have this weird tendency of doing everything backasswards.

The car in question is a 1967 Jag E-Type with 3 carbs and an inline 6. Here is a picture



That being said

Here is a SU Jag carb main jet. The jets he had were not rated for ethanol and dried up badly.



There is a needle that is fluid dampened that goes inside and moves up and down to meter fuel. Part 23 goes into part 1, 4

If the diaphragm cracks or gets stiff that the system leaks or does not run correctly.

T/Aperformance

Sorry to tell you this but 87 octane regular gasoline starts to boil at just over 100 degrees not at over 200. Ethanol starts to boil at 172 degrees, , So this is why your gasoline is starting to boiling at 130 degrees.

T/Aperformance

Yes I'm sure the ethanol in your area goes into one's mouth and gut , But what I make is way to strong for that and by law I have to poison it so it can't be consumed or I'll loose my permit and get a big fine maybe even jail time. And believe me when I say they can and will come by at anytime and check that it is poisoned. Now I use about 35 to 40 gallons a week in ethanol at a $1.12 per gallon. And that boils down to a savings of around $6000. per year by using ethanol instead of gasoline.
Now to get your drinking ethanol to run in your auto you would have to distill it 3 more times to get it pure . I use a reflux still that distills the ethanol 5 times making me between 95% to 97% ethanol, then I use desiccant to remove the last bit of water, I then ad 2.5% gasoline And 2.5% bio diesel to the mix, So don't drink the fuel from my tank.

82RZ

Thank you for the explaination and the Outstanding Diagram. Discussions/Threads like this are how we ALL Learn.

From your photo, it appears the main jet body itself is made of brass with a rubber or other polymer seal. I'am assuming the seal failed and not the brass jet body itself.

Correct me if I'am wrong please and I understand the 'Brits' do have a way of doing things all to themselfs.

82RZ

Great Info Sir and very True!

Any Self-Respecting Moonshine Maker will only use a Non-Ferris metal in his still.....ie...Copper, Glass, Stainless Steel, etc.

And it will ONLY be 'drink-able' if it burns a Clean, Blue Flame when a lighted match is dropped in it. At that point, it is very close to 190 Proof or essentually Pure Grain ethanol.

Yes, I understand that other compounds are added to fuel ethanol by law to make it unsuitable for human consumption.

Thanks for your explaination so Everyone viewing this thread can learn.......

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

Gasoline has an ocatane rating based on two things. Reasearch octane, which is the percentage of octane compared to other more volatile components in the fuel, ie. heptane. Both octane and heptane boil over 200 degrees. The other method of determining octane rating is to run it in a single cylinder engine with an adjustable combustion chamber. This is motor octane. The minimum octane rating at the pump averages the two together. At the pump you'll see R+M/2. All the components within the fuel that I know of have a boiling point of over 200 degrees including the ethanol. My question is why does it still boil at 130 degrees.
EDIT: I meant ethanol boils at almost 200 degrees.

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

Ah, the SU carb. Everyone calls the ones that came on Datsuns SU eventhough they are hitachi carbs.

T/Aperformance

Well octane as most people know is a measurement to resit knock, heptane has an octane measurement of 0 and is very volatile and a very low boiling point, lower than 200 degrees, isooctane the other component in gasoline has an octane rating of 100, it does have a boiling point close to 190 degrees, now thee to components are added together 30% heptane to 70 isooctane or there about to give a given octane rating,and it does start to boil at just over 100 degrees Not a full rolling boil but a small little bubble. If your asking why your gasoline is boiling at 130 degrees then there is no way gasoline has a boiling point over 200.
Ethanol start to boil at 172 degrees, best distilled at 176 degrees and has an octane rating at over 120.
Now you can lower your boiling point with any liquid if its in a vacuum and raise it pressurizing it to a point.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not even close.

Octane rating, as stated, is a comparison of the knock resistance of the fuel being tested to "isooctane", a member of the "octane" hydrocarbon family, using a spark ignition motor with variable compression under controlled conditions. That "(R+M)/2" you see on the gas pump means "the average of the Research octane test method and the Motor octane test method". As indicated by the description, there is more than one method used to test the resistance to knock of a particular gasoline product. The "Research" method tends to stress the fuel less than the "Motor" method (the "Motor" method being more representative of real-world conditions), and in the days of yore, gas companies would choose which test method they were going to use when advertising their fuels. This led to confusion and misinformation, so before most of you were born, an agreement was reached that in the U.S., the average would be posted on pumps, and automakers would reference the (R+M)/2 in their owner's manuals for recommended fuels.

Obviously, games can still be played in meeting an 87, 89, 91, etc., octane rating. So, even with "standardization", not all fuels are created equal.

And, fuel formulation is altered throughout the year for vaporization temperature (completely independent of octane rating). Summer fuel will have a higher boiling point than winter fuel, so you don't have as high a likelihood of vapor lock in the summer, or hard starting in the winter.

Ethanol, and other oxygenating additives, throw another variable into the mix. Although not given an "octane" rating, ethanol tends to raise the knock resistance of gasoline. Many racers and power adders are using E85 because of its superior resistance to knock. Plus, it takes more heat to evaporate in prep to burn, and in that process, absorbs heat from the engine. But, due to it's higher boiling temp, many areas go to E70 during the winter so flex vehicles will be easier to start.

All this to say that blaming ethanol for vapor lock is barking up the wrong tree.

midias

You are correct but they are bought as a single assembly you cannot replace just the diaphragms.

The Brass was fine when I inspected.

bestracing

Yup, I've seen where at one brand station I can get by with using 87 Octane in my car and then at another brand station I have to use the 89 Octane. Both have 87 grade but one resists knocking better than the other in my car. Example, one could be R=89 and M=85 to get 87 and the other could be R=91 and M=83 to get 87. I have my car tuned so that I can run the 87 from either station most of the time so it's not a big deal but you get the point.

Brother Al

Great to see all of the EFI people loving Ethanol... but for us ancient tech carb folks, yeah, Deathanol is crap... say what you will, but having never had it here in New England until it was mandated... yup it sucks vs non-ethanol gasoline and NO, it was not added when lead was taken away... and NO, your gas mileage does not go up with Ethanol... it goes DOWN. Ethanol does not produce more BTUs than the Chemical-Petrol mix of modern Gasoline... its also why EVERY manufacturer of small engines (up until very recently) states in their owners manuals that using Ethanol-Blended-Gasoline voids the warranty... Ive seen plenty of small engine carbs and fuel system parts with signs of excessive corrosion from ethanol... this can also be seen in complaints from all across the country (go look at other forums out there)... there are plenty of examples, scientific reports, etc... maybe Tuning solves some issues, but you cannot get away from it and if you go out and look for Ethanol-safe fuel components... 99.999% of the stuff out there is NOT ethanol compatible... you need to do your research before you buy and even then a lot of the stuff is rated as being "Ethanol/Alcohol Resistant"...Not "Ethanol Proof"...take a look on craigslist at the THOUSANDS of blown-up or "Wont Run" small engine stuff out there... There are countless snowmobiles, boat motors, lawn tractors, weed whackers, pressure washers, chainsaws, snowblowers, etc with gummed up carbs... I've pulled apart a number of carbs and cleaned out goo/varnish that had clean gas, run through in & less than 5 months since the prior cleanout... I put a new carb on my Bolens ST120... 3 MONTHS of sitting and I had Ethanol Jelly in the fuel bowl... Sta-Bil Ethanol Treatment & Startron are hot sellers (and I always have used Sta-Bil myself, no issues since going to Ethanol treatment Sta-bil)

Want some more proof? Even Consumer Reports has written about it, citing the problems being noticed back in 2009
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm

Brother Al

PS... though this was the Carburetor Section?

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

So if I've read your posts right, my 84 T/A that I have retrofitted an in-tank electric fuel pump into will run fine on E-85? Will I have to re-tune my carb for it or do anything else to get it to run on it? The stuff here is almost $2.00 cheaper than regular gas.

Brother Al

For a time... unless you treat the gasoline with an ethanol treatment every time you fill up with E10...., otherwise that Dethanol will breakdown any rubber and non-alcohol rated components of your fuel system... Do not assume that NEW PARTS are "ethanol rated". There are tons of "pre-ethanol" parts still out there on parts store shelves. There are even less new parts being made since the collapse of Detroit, because quite a few US Parts Manufacturers that made our stuff went belly up or discontinued production of old stuff to save their business... Also, a lot of "New" stuff entering the parts supply chain is foreign-made and not always made with "quality" or "consumer satisfaction/complaint control" in mind... Will it cause your fuel system to fail overnight? NO, but over time, it will damage your fuel system and engine, no matter how well you tune it...

OK, so some of you say the stuff will need to be replaced with wear anyway, but the guy with the pristine car that has few miles, but a disintegrating fuel system and few sources of NOS parts available will disagree completely with your sentiment. Especially when E10 cuts the service lifetime of some parts in half or even less depending on all of the variables. Disintegrating fuel pickup socks, 3-4 year old rubber fuel lines that crumble apart, mechanical fuel pumps that need replacement every few years, carburetors that become totally unserviceable because they are severely corroded internally, injectors that leak &/or become brittle and shatter...

Ethanol-blended fuels are nowhere near as stabilized as Non-ethanol fuels and begin to breakdown immediately after being made, so fuel makers add stabilizers... but they are a stop-gap... the more "Open" Ethanol-fuels are to the atmosphere, the faster it degrades.

Proof in the pudding?
Leave a gallon or two in a sealed/unvented gas can someplace for about 3 months, (untreated)... you will notice that it develops a slight rusty-orange-ish coloring... over a few more or with full access to the air, it will get darker and smell sour, eventually you will see it separate into Gasoline on top, water-ethanol below it, and broken down components of the gasoline sinking to the bottom and making a nasty thick mess, you may also see a white jelly-like substance form along the gas/water-ethanol line...

Temperature changes, humidity, and light affect the rate at which it happens... Here in much of New England, it is quite humid at times, especially in the Spring, Summer, Fall and during Nor' Easters, so we see this problem quite a bit. Places where the humidity rarely or occasionally exceeds 65% (without rain), will see this problem less often than folks along the coast or inland on the East Coast, where the jet stream brings lots of Gulf moisture up.

Most fuel systems are vented with purge valves, including 3rd Gens... The return line gets air vented into the system once the purge valve opens. This comes mainly through the charcoal canister in order to displace the fuel being removed by the fuel pump... this prevents a vacuum from developing inside your gas tank... Vacuumized Gas Tank = No Fuel Pressure to the engine. This does allow water vapor to enter your fuel system. If you are running a vented fuel cap on you car, you will get even more water vapor inside your fuel system... anyone in humidity prone locations will see far more water vapor enter their fuel system than someone in a drier location.

Adding to this are the wide array of variables found at Gas Stations and fuel storage facilities. Those fuel tanks also "Vent" in fresh air through one-way valves when fuel is drawn from them.... and how many times have you seen a fuel truck filling up the tanks at a gas station in the pouring rain?

Anyway, this "venting" introduces air from outside to enter the fuel storage/gas tank/your fuel system.. this includes water vapor.. the higher the humidity and dew points are, the worse this can be. Water in any fuel system is bad enough, miniscule amounts don't mean much, but if you do as most people do: fill up before your tank is almost empty, say 1/4 or 1/2 a tank, then that water will add up over time, especially in humid places... it will sink below the gasoline and sit in the bottom of your fuel tank. Typically, normal driving agitates the fuel enough to prevent this from becoming a serious issue, and it gets siphoned out by the fuel pickup and run through the engine in tiny amounts. In stock form, our cars were designed to run on "traditional" gasoline, which floats above contamination and water, and so they are not bottom sump fed fuel systems like some race cars... IE: The pickup doesn't sit right on the bottom of the tank, its above it, so that contaminants can collect at the bottom, allowing for a long service life. They also have a fuel sock over the pickup to prevent debris from being sucked into the system. By design, Gasoline readily flows through the sock, and water tension slows down the amount of water that can pass through while gasoline is being drawn through so it reduces the issue of too much water entering the system at once.

Ethanol's ability to attract water, is because Ethanol is Alcohol... Alcohol evaporation causes rapid cooling, and thus, condensation of water on the inside and outside of the container, (That's why rubbing alcohol feels cold on your skin and is sometimes used in emergencies to drop people's body-core temperatures)... condensation can be seen when you take a cold can of soda from the fridge and in minutes its dripping with water. .
If enough water collects, the gasoline will go into phase separation... this is VERY BAD... It is exactly that, the Ethanol completely separates from the gasoline and blends with the water... the water-ethanol mix will compete with engine oil for bonding to the metal engine parts, = less lubrication, corrosion, and engine damage.

A second problem develops, when water and ethanol gasoline mix, even in small amounts. The ethanol becomes acidic and begins to eat away at just about everything... Rubber, Plastics, Pot Metals, and Aluminum are typically the first things to see damage. All carburetors are made of aluminum and they have plugs that are typically made of pot metal. Aluminum tends to corrode, IE; develop white powdery film. Pot metals do as well, and begin to pit out. This white powdery film continues to get worse and eventually blocks up the passages and jets inside the carb, leading to poor drivability and possible fuel leaks.

Here is an example (Courtesy of SEMA).



More: in ever increasing amounts, something else is consuming E10... Bacteria and Yeasts... In return, fuel companies are now adding "glutaraldehyde", a biocide that kills the ethanol-loving microbes. the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has been performing a number of studies and tests over the years, showing the darker sides of ethanol-blended fuels.

And guess what the byproduct of these microbes getting drunk off Ethanol is?

For those of you that said ACID, you are absolutely correct.. You get a star for the day.
Yep, they create even more acid.. more acid equals more damage... and multiply that by every step along the road... from refinery to your fuel system... Untreated and Contaminated storage tanks act as breeding grounds and less respectable places are not even testing their stuff.

I have found that Mobil/Exxon, BP, and Shell have produced the best results when mixed with Stabil "ethanol treatment"... I cannot attest that they are the only ones/brands that work well amongst the ones locally available to me...., of the ones I've tried, they seem to run with the cleanest end results. I have a treated 5 gallon Gerry Can that is nearly 5 months old now and it is not showing any signs of degradation... I bought it just before this past winter's Blizzard in preparation for my generator... its burning just fine in my lawn tractor now.

mmadden55

Ethanol is corrosive but shouldn"t be that big a problem in e 15 gas unless you let it sit for a long while. In Houston we don't have any choice the EPA requires minimum 10 percent ethanol in all gas and 15 percent is common.

Brother Al

E5, E10, E15... doesnt matter... the effects are the same over time. Again, it wont just turn your fuel system into crap overnight, but the damage is multiplied each time untreated Ethanol-blended gasoline is used. The more Ethanol content, the worse the problem becomes...

As I had stated previously, and please read my earlier posts carefully before replying, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of stories, experiments, pictures, videos, news articles, threads, etc that show how bad ethanol is. It is also why there are multiple lawsuits against the EPA, trying to stop E15 from being mandated.

Ethanol does play a part in US Oil Independence, but right now, all it does give the Corporate Corn Industry, (not avg joe farmer), an insanely high level of profit through Federal Corn Subsidies, Enviro-friendly Subsidies, Federal Mandates, and Commodity Trading/Leverage. US Federal Corn Subsidies and Corn-based industry involvement is in almost every sector of commerce now... from petro-chemicals and genetic modification to animal feed and food additives ie fructose/corn syrup... it is bigger than Big Oil because E10 mandates forces Big Oil to hand over a chunk of Big Oil's Pie.
They are a powerful industry pushing it onto us... despite plenty of pushback by other auto enthusiasts, SEMA, the Auto Industry, small engine manufacturers, equipment makers, boat manufacturers, and a decent-sized portion of the other remaining bits of the US manufacturing sector.