Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Here are some cam specs -- is this too much cam?
I've got a CCC quadrajet - rebuilt with larger idle tubes and larger fuel inlet.
Vortec heads on a L98 350 bored over to a 355.
Cam specs -
112 Lobe separation
Duration intake 226
Duration exhaust 234
Will this work out?
I've got a CCC quadrajet - rebuilt with larger idle tubes and larger fuel inlet.
Vortec heads on a L98 350 bored over to a 355.
Cam specs -
112 Lobe separation
Duration intake 226
Duration exhaust 234
Will this work out?
Last edited by Chuck84TA; 09-29-2014 at 10:43 AM. Reason: grammar
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Originally was thinking this was ok, then I've been hearing differing opinions --
#3
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
You're definitely on the bubble. I've gotten them to work with 224* cams, but up in the 230+* range it was definitely not happy. They're more "self tuning" than EFI systems are, but they have their limits. Mostly once you get into big lumpy cams, the mere fact that the ECM shoots for 14.7:1 mix at idle and part throttle is a problem. You can NOT make a big cammed motor run acceptably that lean (not with a carb and wet-flow manifold, anyway). It will surge and hesitate and buck and basically give you the middle finger.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Would burning a chip help?
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
An aftermarket roller with any given "specs" tends to act like about 10° more cam than a flat that "appears" to have about the same "specs".
I'm thinking it'll test your tunning skilllllz TO THE MAX and then some.
Prolly too much. I'd suggest backing it off a notch. High 2teens, low 220s. Be VERY aggressive except smaller.
I'm thinking it'll test your tunning skilllllz TO THE MAX and then some.
Prolly too much. I'd suggest backing it off a notch. High 2teens, low 220s. Be VERY aggressive except smaller.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
So burning a chip to make the ECM happy is not adviseable?
If I kept the cam, I would be looking at moving to a non CCC Qjet, Holley or an EFI setup?
If I kept the cam, I would be looking at moving to a non CCC Qjet, Holley or an EFI setup?
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
I'm not aware of it being practical to "burn a chip" for that old system. It's even more Stone Age than TPI or TBI. If memory serves it's a MC6809. To my knowledge it was never sufficiently reverse-engineered for hobbyists to be able to modify it.
Pretty much, you're at a crossroads; that cam, or everything else. Not both. It might "work" well enough to at least drive, but having BTDT, I don't think it'll really be completely satisfactory.
Pretty much, you're at a crossroads; that cam, or everything else. Not both. It might "work" well enough to at least drive, but having BTDT, I don't think it'll really be completely satisfactory.
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
The biggest problem with the ccc-qjet system, in this regard and IMO, is that it is so SLOW. A larger cam will require the system to 'hunt' for that optimum ratio and the resulting idle can fluctuate whereas a more efficient system may be able to compensate faster.
AFAIK the ccc has never been hacked and I'm not sure what could be done to it anyway, other than perhaps disabling O2 input under certain conditions.
Another issue with it is that reading it disables the timing advance functions (with later KS equipped models). This makes real-time work with it difficult.
AFAIK the ccc has never been hacked and I'm not sure what could be done to it anyway, other than perhaps disabling O2 input under certain conditions.
Another issue with it is that reading it disables the timing advance functions (with later KS equipped models). This makes real-time work with it difficult.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
So, if I move to a more suitable cam alternative ..... Some alternatives would be
1- LT4 Hot cam
Lift (In/Exh) Duration (In/Exh)
.525 / .525 218 / 228
2- ZZ4 cam --- (seems like a bit too weenie though )
.474 / .510 208 / 221
3- Lunati Voodoo--
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1988&gid=289
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 270/278
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .515/.530
4-jegs Chinesium special
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...00500/10002/-1
I assume any of these cams would work with my Vortec heads.... 1.5 roller rockers, though ..
But as long as that qjet is a happy camper, that's really all that matters... The cam spec drop probably won't decrease hp/tq all that much from the original cam specs, running a smooth motor with some respectable kick is all I care about anyway.
1- LT4 Hot cam
Lift (In/Exh) Duration (In/Exh)
.525 / .525 218 / 228
2- ZZ4 cam --- (seems like a bit too weenie though )
.474 / .510 208 / 221
3- Lunati Voodoo--
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1988&gid=289
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 270/278
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .515/.530
4-jegs Chinesium special
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...00500/10002/-1
I assume any of these cams would work with my Vortec heads.... 1.5 roller rockers, though ..
But as long as that qjet is a happy camper, that's really all that matters... The cam spec drop probably won't decrease hp/tq all that much from the original cam specs, running a smooth motor with some respectable kick is all I care about anyway.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Having said all of that....perhaps I should have mentioned in the beginning that this is not your "stock" CCC Qjet.
I rebuilt it with Cliff Ruggles' HP rebuild kit with the .135 fuel inlet
The Idle air tubes were enlarged by Cliff
The Primary shaft has had the bushing treatment
The Throttle plate was checked for warpage, sanded down as necessary.
New TPS/MCS have been installed.
Then --- get a 1228079 computer with a custom chip from GMCOPO--(Seems pricey, but if anybody can hack a CCC ECM youd think they can..
http://www.gmcopo.com/gmcopo%20zz4%2...r%20tuning.htm
http://www.gmcopo.com/Forms/CLCC%20C...0Worksheet.pdf
So with these modifications in mind, do I have a snowballs chance in hades to have a descent running motor?
I rebuilt it with Cliff Ruggles' HP rebuild kit with the .135 fuel inlet
The Idle air tubes were enlarged by Cliff
The Primary shaft has had the bushing treatment
The Throttle plate was checked for warpage, sanded down as necessary.
New TPS/MCS have been installed.
Then --- get a 1228079 computer with a custom chip from GMCOPO--(Seems pricey, but if anybody can hack a CCC ECM youd think they can..
http://www.gmcopo.com/gmcopo%20zz4%2...r%20tuning.htm
http://www.gmcopo.com/Forms/CLCC%20C...0Worksheet.pdf
So with these modifications in mind, do I have a snowballs chance in hades to have a descent running motor?
Last edited by Chuck84TA; 09-29-2014 at 09:21 AM. Reason: add
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
It depends what hp level you're shooting for.
Not trying to say you should use the ZZ4 (personally, the Lunati option sounds the best to me), but just for reference:
From trap speed and car weight, my daughter's car in the sig with the ZZ4 cam is doing about 325 hp through factory TPI exhaust and manifolds. The Vortec heads are not ported, just bowls and valveguides cleaned up. 1.6 RR's on the intakes, 1.5's on the exhausts.
I think with headers and good exhaust, you could push 340-350 hp with it.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Well 350hp is certainly a goal. Was hoping the 226/234 cam could/would work, that would push it into the 400hp range...
But good idle (Vacuum) performance is also important to me...
I'm trying to find that "sweet spot" cam for the CCC that provides very adequate vacuum and very respectable horsepower for what I've got so far. So yes... I want my cake and eat it too...
But good idle (Vacuum) performance is also important to me...
I'm trying to find that "sweet spot" cam for the CCC that provides very adequate vacuum and very respectable horsepower for what I've got so far. So yes... I want my cake and eat it too...
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
How about 218/226 --112?
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
For your requirements, the LT4 cam is a proven performer. I installed one last Summer with 1.5 rockers and my idle fluctuates some at around 800-850. Bit more lope than a mech carb could provide but livable.
You also have the option to run it with 1.5 rockers then maybe step up to 1.6s later.
You also have the option to run it with 1.5 rockers then maybe step up to 1.6s later.
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
I am not sure if these are still on closeout, but I picked up one of these from Lunati for under $100.00 shipped. Basically a Hotcam with quicker ramps and more lift.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2607
http://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecCa...rtNumber=10030
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2607
http://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecCa...rtNumber=10030
Last edited by Fast355; 10-03-2014 at 08:21 AM.
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
I'm in the same boat here. Does anyone still do a custom chip tuning for a 86 Quadrajet LG4 305 Firebird? I contacted TBI chips and got a no! I can supply OEM chip. Yes I have a 212 @.050s (Comp Cams 260H) cam in it now, and an Edelbrock 3701 manifold. And I'm dropping in a set of headers in it, w/ a 3" single exhaust system.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
I had GMCOPO supply a new computer and PROM based on my 355 build. Why do you want a new chip for your LG4?
http://www.gmcopo.com/GMCOPO%20ZZ4%2...r%20Tuning.htm
http://www.gmcopo.com/GMCOPO%20ZZ4%2...r%20Tuning.htm
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Oh, sorry...ok new cam headers... Just read it again
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
It's not cheap. But my engine build runs well with the CCC Qjet
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Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Define Not cheap, please! And I can supply the OEM chip to be redone. The OEM peanut cam is 41 degrees smaller than the Comp Cam 260 H profile.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
I sent my engine/trans/rear end specs and It cost me around $500 to have GMCOPO supply a prom, computer and ZZ4 knock sensor. Also figure in a modified E4ME with larger idle tubes to feed more gas at idle, that could easily run $400/$500 for a quality rebuild to suit the increase in cam and other mods.
Then way I see it, it's my (your) car and its value is only important to you. Others may say, waste of money ... That's fine, it's not their car anyway. My car runs great with the GMCOPO mods than before it was done. Plus the aggressive cam I've got is very street able with the computer mods.
Then way I see it, it's my (your) car and its value is only important to you. Others may say, waste of money ... That's fine, it's not their car anyway. My car runs great with the GMCOPO mods than before it was done. Plus the aggressive cam I've got is very street able with the computer mods.
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Car: 1984 Trans Am Recaro Edition
Engine: 355 L98 Vortec 226/234 custom cam
Transmission: TKO-600
Axle/Gears: On borrowed time...
Re: Are these specs too much cam for a CCC quadrajet?
Not sure if supplying your own OEM chip will help defray costs, but it's worth looking into. Good luck!! Any other questions you have just shoot me a message
Chuck
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