fulo

Folks, here is one for you all!

Currently there are two ways of removing the heat of a traffic stuck camaro:
By electric or mechanical fans.

Early camaros came with mechanical fans, later models made the switch to electrical fans.

Both systems have their ups and down. I see most threads about upgrading the electrical fan set ups... double fans, push an pull system, etc.

Very few talk about retrofitting back to mecnical set up... I guess that TPI camaro migh have harder time... (i even posted a tread inquiring about retrofiting to mech fan system , <this threadis not about that>). Most mention the higher probability problems of mech fan set up: HP loss and H20 Pump stress

But in temrs of cooling efficiency wich one is best
Double fan or a after market fan clutch system?

From my observation, I will "feel" that mechnical fan pull way more air that electrical ones.

Any comments?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

At low-idle the electric fans will pull MUCH more air. Once the engine speed rises above about 1,000-1,500, the mechanical fan will pull MUCH more air. Really depends on what you are trying to do.

SilentNight1647

Let's take the screamer fan from my car as an example, it's a 14 inch fan that pulls 2900cfm all the time. The mechanical fan it replaced was a plastic fixed fan that pulled a lot of air at about 2k. The problem was I was heating up sitting in traffic so I needed more cooling down low but didn't have a problem on the highway, the electric fan which spins at the same speed all the time was a perfect solution to this. So it really depends on the situation but realistically when you are on the highway ram air should cool it enough to where you don't even need a fan.

VenomX-87

well it all depends on youre setup.

If you are running a stock setup and want it looking stock and don't intend on pushing it past 4k leave it mech setup but if you have an engine that you push past 4k dayly and has a nice amount of power i would go electric.

a fue things that you may not know.
1: Both electric and mech will load up the engine, the mech will when the clutch locks up and the electric when the alt get hit with the large power draw.
2: A flex (mech) fan will flaten out past 4k and act like a disk and block the airflow out of the rad where the electric wont because it runs at a set RPM nomater what RPM the engine is doing.
3: A electric fan will work at max performance when needed nomatter what speed/RPM you are doing.
4: People may say they will choose a mech fan because of reliability over the chance of the electric sensors cr*ping out, If you don't trust the temp sensor then wire a switch in the line before the sensor so if the fan dosenot come on when it should you can overide the system and turn it on when ever you want or just have it hard wired to come on with Ignition.

But as you can see I would go Dual Electric, Mine flow 2,700RPM and I never pass 5'C over the fan on temp of 190'C evan on 40'C days.

jimdutro

iTrader: (1)

Fulo, I found that on my `88 383 TPI Iroc my running hot issues went away when I installed a 4th gen dual fan shroud. I used 2 $99.00 12" new after- market fans with the shroud and I can sit in traffic or let the car idle all day in 100+ heat and the temp will not go over 200.

fulo

Electric cooling has some drawback, no only the sensor can fail, but also de fan relay.

ASsuming we have the best of both system (mech and Electrical), which one will cool better. by observation, assuming we have a heavy duty fan clutch, with a plastic/nylon fan, the mechanical one shoulf move way more air. I believe it reduce to a mater of CFM of air moved.

All hevay duty vehicle come with stocl mechanical fans. HUmmer comes to mind. It move way more air than my stock single e-fan set up.

Retrofitting my car to mechanical set up will be expensive, about 250.00 for all new parts. I wonder if there is an electrical set up for less that will equal or better the cooling capacity of the mechanical system (assuming this one is better at the CFM)

Any thoughs?

joeblue83

iTrader: (8)

In my mind i would go with the dual electric fans. Reasons would be driving around town it will work so much better and cool the engine much better. The mechanical fan is also taking horsepower away from you. I believe by switching to electrical fans you gain around 10 horse.

cheppibear

Check this out, 4000 CFM.

Good seller on ebay with great feedback.

Ebay Item number: 260178212710

dc_sniper9130

I have a manual switch setup on mine and the only time I need to turn it on is if I get bogged down in traffic for a decent amount of time. Any time I'm maintaining 30 or better there's enough ambient airflow that I can just leave it off. Sure my engine *might* get slammed by the power draw, but I have subs that are constantly drawing about 40 amps and never have noticed the engine getting hit from that, plus my fan is on a 30 amp fuse. The only side-effect is that when I'm running my stereo, my headlights, and my fan at night, the headlights dim with the music pulses. So, it's not so much the engine getting hit with the load as it is the battery getting the sh*t kicked out of it. Even so, how much load can an alternator seriously put on the engine? Enough to rob 2, maybe 3 horsepower?

I much prefer electric anyways, especially when you figure in that things are much easier to work on and look a lot better without that gnarly-*** fan shroud in the way.

Fullsizewagon

What Fast355 said.
But there's too much variations between fan models to state a definite rpm where the mech. fan will pull more air. There is also something to the saying: "If it works, don't fix it."
joe: A fixed mech. fan can use at least 10hp at elevated rpm's. A mech. clutch fan don't even use 0.1 hp unless it's engaged, at which point an electric fan would also engage.
An electric fan drawing 16 Amps = 0.3hp. If the alt. is 80% efficient that places a 0.38hp load on the engine. So a heavy duty dual fan setup loads the engine wih a little less than 1hp when engaged. An engaged clutch fan would vary the load according to the square of the rpm's.
The max load a 100 Amp alt. can place on the engine is right about 2.5hp, (but it's not able to do this at idle).

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I wired GM dual electrics to turn on with either AC or temp. The outcome, at least, at low speeds was quite satisfactory.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...electrics.html

JamesC

VAN454

The important thing to remember is that at low revs, a mech fan doesn't pull anywhere near as much air as an electric fan. When do you need the most cooling? Unless you are doing heaps of really long slow moving, high reving burnouts you need lots of cooling when you are sitting in traffic, right when a mechanical fan can't do it's job well. The electric fans are better for 99% of applications, that's why they are fitted to modern cars, the factory wouldn't fit a more expensive part that wasn't better.

dc_sniper9130

Well, I think the majority of modern cars have electric fans fitted because the engines are mounted sideways in the bay (laterally as opposed to longitudinally), but yes, VAN454 makes a good point.

VAN454

Very true, but I was thinking more of RWD cars since that's what we are talking about. But you also make a good point, most cars are now FWD. I was thinking that if a manufacturer can cut costs they do, especially if it also improves the car in some way, reliability or better cooling. And electric fans cost most than mechanical ones.

gangstar55

My electric fan has screwed me over due to the wiring of the idiot who had it before me. Now I had to install a manual on/off switch

fulo

I thinks that has more to do thand we think.

fulo

I mean the engine configuration. The saving cost on the transversal engine over traditional inline are significant. Just imagine designing mechanical fan on this engines... For starters, the fixture has to be strong (NO PLASTICS)... then transmitting the mechanical force to the actual fan assembly...

I have yet to see a transversal modern engine witha mechanical fan.

fulo

AWESOME LINK!!!!!!!!!!!

fulo

Even though I have both a dual fan assembly, I will make one more point for the mechanical assembly.... specifically the Thermal Fan Clutch....
I have seen some modern Super Heavy duty Trucks used Factory Thermal Fan Clutch. The Semi Truck Used Mechanical assembly... there has to be a reason...

Then there is the issue about HP... I won’t argue on the math... clearly the electrical assembly save HP... But for an engine who is making past 300 HP, a lost of ~6 HP is not that much...

Then there is the traffic issue... correct me if I am wrong... but a mech. Thermal Fan clutch actually operates when the temperature reach to a certain point.. Let’s say heavy traffic... after driving and the engine cools, the thermal fan clutch disengage... So, on every day driving, the ~6HP lost on a traffic jam is not that big of a deal (again for every day driving).


Moving along on the Stress on the Water Pump.... that for me is a considerable point against the Mech Set up... but doing some research I noted that most new blades are made of self aligning composites. The stress is considerable less than a metal fan.

But to sum it all, I find the mechanical Fan set up appealing because I believe is more reliable than the electrical set up. Let me explain: on the electrical set up you have way more part that can fail (wires, Relay, switches, motors, ect). and for most part there is no warning when they go. A Mech Thermal Fan Clutch Set up will let you know when is going. Just to add the last two drops... I have two cars my camera and an old jeep style car... the jeep style has mechanical set up... HAS NEVER Failed... my camaro has fail so many time (relay, switches, motors, ect).

So, why, as I wrote at the begging I opted for the dual e-fan set up... well... The mech conversion was more scarce & costly (I am currently overseas), and I did not want to over crowd the engine compartment.

For me, the real question will be HP VS RELIABILITY… and I LOVE my Camaro, but is not the most reliable car (when compare to others).

P.S: when I do the conversion to the dual fan, I will post some pics and results!

VAN454

True, but we aren't talking transverse, it costs more to fit electrical fans to a RWD car. As for the reliability facter, there are more things to go wrong, again, why would the factory use a more complex, more expensive sytem that adds nothing in marketing? While a clutch fan does work in traffic, the revs are too low for it to work at peak flow, unlike an electric fan that always makes peak flow. Stopped in traffic is when you need a fan to be working at it's best, not when you are doing 60.