I recently saved a 1991 Camaro RS from the scrap heap just because it didn't seem right. The car had no transmission, driveshaft, or steering column. I have replaced all of the above, with used parts, and attempted to start it for the first time last weekend. NOTHING! After some reading on this site, I tracked down the starter enable relay and figured if mashing the contacts together got the engine to turn over, I had a VATS problem. It worked, so then I proceeded to get the right resistor ( based on the paper I found from the factory that says 11 B for the ignition key) and wire it in to the VATS wires from the ignition. I did not cut the two white wires in the yellow sleeve however, I disconnected the connector and cut the two on the car side. I think they were purple/white and white/black. Based on more reading tonight, it looks like I need to wire the connector back in and cut the white wires. Am I close? I am NOT any type of expert! I have learned more from the Haynes manual and this site about Camaros in the last few weeks that I thought I would need. The car has a 305 TBI, 700R4 automatic transmission, T-tops, and I hope one day will be dark teal metallic again!
i would be courious about this too. my car is a 89 camaro with vats. pass key.
i only have one key so i was goign to try and delete the vats while converting over to the turbo v8.
i tried to go to the dealer and they said couldnet cut a key.
do you guys know who can cut a new key for the vats. i still have one original. and i can keep the vats working if i can get some spares made.
thanks
I was wrong, the two white wires are in an orange sleeve. I actually used a flashlight this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsv8_03
i would be courious about this too. my car is a 89 camaro with vats. pass key.
i only have one key so i was goign to try and delete the vats while converting over to the turbo v8.
i tried to go to the dealer and they said couldnet cut a key.
do you guys know who can cut a new key for the vats. i still have one original. and i can keep the vats working if i can get some spares made.
thanks
I had a key made at the local locksmith. They can take the key you have, read it, and cut you a new one with the proper blank. Be prepared to spend $25-$30 though.
Last edited by vswearingin : 07-08-2008 at 06:47 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
It doesn't matter which side you cut the wires on. Mine is cut on the car side. I figured it would prevent that connector from introducing any extra resistance, resulting in a mis-read resistor.
Keep in mind, every time the VATS module sees the wrong resistance, it will instruct the ECM to "lock out" any attempts to start for the next 3 minutes. I always waited 5 between tries.
This may help you out too:
Image is also attached if you want to keep it handy. I recommend writing down the resistance that you find that works, in case you ever need to replace that resistor.
If the VATS cuts out the ECM, does it shut off just the fuel, or will it also not allow the plugs to fire? I have the starter enable relay fixed to allow it to turn over, but I was not getting a spark or fuel. I also found a black plastic box labeled auto alarm with some wires going into it, but 4 or 5 of the wires look like they have been cut. This doesn't look like good news to me!
VATS only kills the fuel and starter. You can see a vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7opXhO5Qn4 of me forcing one to run with the vats not not bypassed. Notice the constant pumping of the linkage to get it to shoot fuel. It won't do it on its' own.
That box labeled "alarm" sounds aftermarket to me, and very may well have something to do with your issue. Trace the wires from it, and see if they are soldered or tapped into your ignition wires or fuse panel or anywhere else. If it's obviously aftermarket, I would remove it, to take that out of the equation.
Im doing the same thing right today seen a loose wired ( but Stock ) missing relay under center of dash and wondered pulled steering wheel and got lock out to turn over after jumping clutch switch purple wire side to hot to crank engine power at fuel pump and inj. can smell gas after cranking but wont start I even think wires shot spark but seems like thekey in the chip trip is maybe the hold up I wonder if you can by pass the theft deturant devise or just fool it some how any thought, thanks george
The dealer could not come up with a vats code for my vin can you help with that I have a key code of 26007687 but I think it is one for a no chip style key because thats what there data base is mistakenly comming up with this is a vat type keyed system that I wish I had keys for thanks again for your time George
Hi the dealer is telling me they cant come up with a vats code for me but give me a key code of 26007687 and said it was not a vats type key scerwed up data base ? I dont get it can you help I gave them the correct vin also you would think they could figure it out since they gotch ya on this one thanks george
I don't know if you can get the key resistance from the vin code or not. I would think it would not be possible, since a potential thief could walk up to the car, get the vin and match it to the correct resistance, enter the car, wire in the resistor, bust the lock cylinder, and be gone. Would just make it too easy...
I found mine by going down the list trying each value and waiting 5 minutes in between.
There is nothing on the car that will show you what the car is looking for. I just got done bypassing mine the night before last because the damn thing left me in the parking lot after work with the Security light smiling at me for 30 minutes before i could get it started. What you will need to do if you can't measure off a key is just make up 15 different resistor combinations from radio shack and try till you find one that lets it start.
This is basically the same way a shop does it exept they have a fancy box that has all the resistors build into it. Try one, wait 5 min, try another wait 5..etc. Since I had my key I just measured it and soldered up a resistor into the plug below the dash where I could un-plug it if i really didnt want someone driving the car
Don't stress about getting the exact resistance value listed either, just somewhere close to the middle as possible. Mine should have been the 1130 but the key measured 1123. Put together a 1K and a 150 resistor and measured out exactly to 1123 at room temp (how bout that). Then I super heated them to check resistance at the point where the solder was melting..still within range. Then I took a can of that compressed air and turned it upside down so it would blow out the freezing liquid, still within range. Then I made a new one that wasn't burnt/frozen and works just fine. Run some shrink tubing up each side of it till they meet (was soldered in a U shape) then put a bigger one over the whole thing and shrink tube. Then soldered the connectors out of the end of the red cable and shrinked over the leads so they wouldn't short each other out and plugged it in.
Last edited by Kojote : 07-11-2008 at 03:07 PM.
Reason: More Info
I haven't gotten to look at the car lately, been traveling (business). Played with it today, went through all the resistance values and nothing worked. I put the #11 back in that based on the build sheet is the right one. Checked for power to the injectors, had 12v, tried to start it, no fuel to the injectors. Checked the voltage right away and still had 12v to the injectors. Does that tell me that I have the right resistance? Soon after I got the car, when I was replacing missing/broken parts, I replaced the oil pressure sensor. Since I wasn't getting fuel, the relay measured OK (I think), and I couldn't find the in line 20amp fuse, I disconnected the oil pressure sensor and shorted out the pins to see if the fuel pump would come on and it did. I believe that means at least the fuse is OK, wherever it is! I've got spark, just can't seem to get fuel to the TBI! What should I try at this point?
Hey, I just had the same problem. Getting around the Vats is simple! I was scared I couldn't do it at first, but be confident! Look down the line a few threads and look for my thread labeled 89 GTA VAts problem. I have pictures on there that might help ya. Good luck!
I had a VATS problem. It worked, so then I proceeded to get the right resistor ( based on the paper I found from the factory that says 11 B for the ignition key) and wire it in to the VATS wires from the ignition. I did not cut the two white wires in the yellow sleeve however, I disconnected the connector and cut the two on the car side. I think they were purple/white and white/black.
Unplug the connector and solder the correct resistor across the two wires on the car side. DO NOT reconnect the plug as that would change the total resistance and the car won't start.
You could also get a custom prom burned disabling the VATS.
I believe I have traced the fuel problem to the ground wire that is supposed to be conneted to the back of the block. Once I fished it out and grounded it, I had fuel at the injectors. The car did not start, but fuel came from the injectors on 2 consecutive tries, so I believe that I have the right resistor in the ignition circuit to fool the VATS. Before I get in too big of a hurry, I would like to make sure that the timing is close and the spark plugs are connected to the distributor cap correctly.
When I got the car, the dist cap was broken (gone!) and the distributor shaft was bent. A buddy got me another one that looked exactly the same and I took the module off the old one and put it on. Then I put it in the car the way it looked like the old one came out. When I turned it over today, I pulled the wire on top of the ignition coil and it had a good spark. In addition to the distributor, I replaced the rotor, cap, plug wires and plugs. What is the best way to line all this up as good as possible to give it the best chance of starting??
Another update! After finding the ground wires, I dug around and found 3 more wires that appeared to be broken off a grounding bolt on th back of the drivers side of the engine block. After attaching them, getting a new battery, and a new starter, the car finally turned over good. I could not get it to start until I sprayed starter fluid into the throttle body. It would run until it burnt up the fluid then die. The injectors seem to be firing sporadically, firing the best just after I do the starter fluid thing. It appears that it is not getting enough fuel to even get to an idle. It does sound pretty good until it dies with the starter fluid though. When the injectors spray, it seems to be a good strong spray with a good cone shaped pattern. I'm thinking either fuel filter, or possibly a vacuum leak somewhere. Could anyone guide me to the best place to start?
Another update! After finding the ground wires, I dug around and found 3 more wires that appeared to be broken off a grounding bolt on th back of the drivers side of the engine block. After attaching them, getting a new battery, and a new starter, the car finally turned over good. I could not get it to start until I sprayed starter fluid into the throttle body. It would run until it burnt up the fluid then die. The injectors seem to be firing sporadically, firing the best just after I do the starter fluid thing. It appears that it is not getting enough fuel to even get to an idle. It does sound pretty good until it dies with the starter fluid though. When the injectors spray, it seems to be a good strong spray with a good cone shaped pattern. I'm thinking either fuel filter, or possibly a vacuum leak somewhere. Could anyone guide me to the best place to start?
fuel filter would be the cheapest thing to buy to check it out ... Besides it probably needs one anyways. Sure sounds like the fuel pump is not working well ... I had a car like that .. only would stay on with spray or a bit of gasoline then it would die.
have someone turn the key to the on position and put your ear by the gas inlet with the cap off and see if you hear the fuel pump , should be a nice HUmming noise for about a good 2 seconds.
The fuel pump is coming on for about 2 seconds when the ignition is turned on. I haven't checked the pressure, but I will see if I can borrow a gauge and get that done and get a fuel filter put on it. I had thought the VATS issue was solved when I got some fuel from the injectors, but when I checked the codes late last night, I got a code 53 which I believe brings me back to the VATS. I have replaced the plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor, ignition coil, and it has a new battery, so I do not believe it is a reference voltage issue. Looks like I have to go through the resistor combinations again. The security light is staying on the entire time that I am trying to start it. If the resistors don't fix it, maybe a bad VATS module?
The resistors did it! Found the right combo and the car fired right up. Got pretty rough and started backfiring after a little bit, but I have not set the timing right yet. Hopefully, it will smooth out when I get that done.
