tilstad

Well, I've found that especially my passenger door is hard to close. No passenger manages on first try, and usually I dont either. It takes too much force, you basicly have to have your hand on the door, ALL the way, or else it wont shut properly.

However, I've also found that if I'm quick, and crack open the passenger door window slightly, it usually closes the first time.

Enter The Fix:
Automaticly opening/closing windows whenever you open/shut the door.

This is standard on some high end cars, Ive heard Aston Martin have this, but its not important. The basic idea is that with the windows slightly open, there will not be such airpressure to overcome when closing, and the result is less force needed to close the doors, on any car.

There's a few ways to do this, myself just got a DEI 530T window module, which has express/auto down/up feature, but also have a "venting" feauture. Now this isnt needed, but it was what put me onto the idea in the first place.

What one need is a timed signal, a signal to the power window wire, just long enough to open say 1 or 2 inches when the door is opened, then close the window after you shut the door.
Say if you drive with your windows down, you do need to time the signal so that it dont completely roll up the windows.

Timers can either be made rather cheaply using a 555 timer chip, and some additional cicuitry, or one can just buy timer ready made, or in kit form.

The latter is what I did myself. I got these two timers:




http://www.quasarelectronics.com/ci0001.htm
http://www.quasarelectronics.com/ci0033.htm

Now some of the reason for the CI0001 timer, (which is a 555 chip based circuit with an additional trigger circuit and potensiometer for easy adjustabilty), is that the door switch, gives a continous grounded signal when you open the door. If you connect that directly to the power window system, by relay or sim9ilar, it will open the window all the way, and thats perhaps not what you want when it rains etc. You need it to activate say power for 1 second(adjustable). The secondary reason is that it needs be indifferent to a second ground signal. Ie, when both passenger AND driver opens the door at the same time. It also needs to be indifferent to an input signal longer than the output signal. This particular timer have the circuitry for exactly this. (Not all timers have this, the input/ trigger circuitry, some will give a constant output signal if the input is longer than the set time. So do your homework before you buy)

The second timer has a double timer modelue in it, (a 556 chip, which is basicly a double 555)meaning you may adjust how long it takes before it starts, and then how long it will run. You need this so that the window wont start closing before the door is properly shut. Since the door ground switch closes before the door is shut all the way, this needs to have a slight delay, and then a slightly longer power pulse then when opening, so that youre sure the windows do in fact close fully, but not more than necessary for when you drive with windows down.

You will however get the windows slightly further up with this setup when you initially had windows all the way down, But I think it dont matter so much as it's just 1 or 2 inches.

As an upgrade, one could add to the circuitry with some reed switches inside the doors, for when the windows are fully down to begin with, and a reed switch for the closing of the doors. (I dont think this is necessary however, but I'll let you know how the install comes along. One could always just have a switch to turn it off, for these occations I guess. )I expect it to be done in about a week or two. the dash and doors are already taken apart, just waiting for the modules.

I have just retrofitted power door locks, by remote, and express/auto windows, also by remote in addition, and remote opening of hatch. So I just figured this was the last thing I could do to finish it off. After this, I'm onto the chassis.

enswrob

doors sagging/latches need adjustment first?

Apeiron

Here's what you need



Interesting idea though. I've always thought that there must be some way to tweak the vents in the doorjambs to relieve the pressure when the doors are closed.

Ward

iTrader: (1)

OR... you could adjust/fix/grease the hinges, and align the latch so it lines up properly. I can almost guarantee that's the problem - it's definitely not air pressure holding you back. These cars weren't exactly built to tight tolerances, and I suspect they're about as airtight as a spaghetti strainer. High end cars are much better sealed up. Your window is probably catching on the weatherstrip somewhere, which is why it closes when cracked open. The good thing about having really heavy doors is that once you get it swinging, it's got a ton of momentum to close all the way - when everything is lined up.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

although I agree with the others on the alignment, I think this is a pretty good idea, if not cool one. I do agree that the window cracked helps seal the door better, and as a matter of fact, I always crack my window before I shut my door. More info and pics please!

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

A bit off topic, but I've been interested in the 530T for some time. Any comments and/or installation advice?

JamesC

Apeiron

Try closing the doors with the hatch open and the windows rolled up, and see the difference that air pressure makes.

tilstad

The car only has 60k miles on it, the hinges are greased, and there's zero slack in them. As for alignment, I havent really checked, but the doors close just fine with the windows down. It's a huge difference with them up and down.

You do have a point about the window hitting the rubberseal, cause when I close normally, then get up to highway speeds, i usually get air between the window and rubber, and then need to open window slightly, close again, and it's fixed. THis is supposed to remedy all these issues, but automaticly, so that I dont have to do anything activly each time I drive.

Also, although I guess one could perhaps get atleast some results by adjusting and realigning the doors, that is a very time consuming thing to do, and also very hard. I've tried on several other cars, and have had modest results. If I was to pay a bodyman for it, it would cost an arm and a leg. This I know for sure will work, and it wont cost much to do, except for the time spent.

I did adjust the rubbersels though, as they seemed to be mounted crooked. It wasnt straight the edge against the window. The metal backing for the rubber. But anyways, with this system, it would allow you to adjust the window even tighter to the body to get rid of air entering between glass and rubber, and still be able to close the doors normally. Those two issues usually work against eachother.

I'm waiting for the delivery on the modules, but will update with some pics, and maybe a schematic when it's done.

tilstad

The DEI module worked like a charm right away! No issues, in fact I was supriced how fast and easy it installed. You may even install it without cutting your original harness, aslong as you extend the wires from the switch plug, with male fittings, then wires, and female fittings on the switch. Then just cut into this extended part.

Actually I would highly reccomend it, fcause funny thing, as slow as ourr windows are, their actually the perfect speed for autodown. On many cars it tends to go too fast, so you need to boggie up and down before you get it "right". Works perfect with our window speed.

I connected it to the alarm system, so when I go out of the car, it now locks the doors, and rolls up the windows. A breese to enter and leave now compared to before.

fyrebird68

iTrader: (1)

I'm a gadget hound; I think it's a neat idea, and my doors close fine.

Any place to get these relays in the USA?

NoCal91Convert

The tolerances are kinda close on convertibles between getting a good seal and brushing the vert top with the window (wearing out the top). This would be the perfect solution BUT, I would need way more information as well as the "Dummies" version of the instructions. I frankly found most everything you said over my head, certainlly building timers, double grounds, etc. If you do a sticky, I'd love to study it and ascertain if this would be something an electrical neophite like myself could do.

tilstad

You could probably get them in the US, I just got them from England cause that was cheaper (half price) compared to locally in Norway. I saw "Autronix" made a timer, it's american, but the description was lacking, so one couldnt tell if it had a trigger circuit or not. So one would have to buy and try. Looking at the pcb however, it seems it didnt actually have a chip, just a rheostat and a capacitor. It will work, just not in this case.

The double ground.... the thought was to use the timers for both doors, instead of 4, 2 for each. So they will both controlled by the 2 timers, and if the windows have already moved down, no need to go further down when one open the second door. They will move in pairs. One could make them move separatly of course, but having an opening on both sides of the car makes air able to exit aswell which helps. Dont need so big opening then.

When closing, I need to think up a system where it only closes after the llast door is shut. probably some relay.

fyrebird68

iTrader: (1)

Your profile says "New Jersey". Is there a Norway, New Jersey?

online170

Tilstad is absolutely correct. Its not just the "high-end" cars that do this now, my freind; 2007 V6 Mustang has this. It drove me nuts the first couple of times i SAW it, but they did it so subtly, you dont really ever notice it.

Mustang doors, are fairly bulky so im sure this makes them a alittle easier to close.

Our cars DO build up pressure, i noticed this ALOT for the first time 2 weeks ago, when i masked off my car to paint. I have to "close" the door very very slowly, otherwise, it rips the masking paper thats covering the hatch are. (im painting with the hatch off)...

IM very interested to see how this works out for you tilstad.

Please post pix when youre done, and let us know how it works.

tilstad

I will, hoping I'm getting it in the mail tomorrow or saurday, so I can do it this weekend. But I have vacation next week, so will spend a week on the car anyways. New 19x11.5 inch rims, bilsteins, pro kit, subframe connectors, plus a few cartons of smaller parts.

Norway is in Europe. I just try to keep a low profile

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

Haha awesome...can't wait to see pics and videos!

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

I think it may be the t-top weatherstripping. on my dads 81 z it has this same problem to, only because we replaced the weather stripping..

tb3

old thread, but I'm doing searches and having a tough time finding a remedy.
I have the same problem.
doors and seals are all perfect and the doors shut smooth and easy as pie when the windows are down or cracked (or hatch is up, or t tops off),
but when everything is up and I'm in the car, you have to slam the door pretty dang hard.

anybody ever come up with a solution, or what the problem is? or is it just the nature of the beast?