ElectronicsNeed help wiring something up? Thinking of adding an electrical component to your car? Need help troubleshooting that wiring glitch?
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
I once had a kill switch in my car that was deactivated by touching a certain screw just under the dash within reach of my hand. That was great for a while, but eventually it became a problem.
In my mind, I have an idea for some sort of open/closed circuit setup that is activated when I put a pin back in place. Better yet, I have a B&M hammer shifter, it would be pretty cool if I could make the handle into a kill switch...
Anyway, post up some of your unique ideas for functional kill switches.
This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!
__________________ Thousands of Third Gens, the best and the worst, the most unique, etc..
it was in a 88 monte carlo ss, but i imagine the idea for out cars is the same. you take the power wire that runs to your ignition switch (where the key goes in, and cut it in the dash, run it up the a-piller on whatever side is convenient, across to the top of the rear view mirror, down into the mirror, hook it up to one side of the passenger (or driver) side map light, then run more wire to connect the other side of the map light switch back down the a-piller and to the ignition switch. then wire the light you just disabled to the other map liht that was not used, so both lights come on at once.
it basically is just disabling the ignition switch by cutting the power source to it, nothing fancy
Old school kill switch location was to remove the guts from the cigarette lighter socket and put an on-off push button switch in there under the lighter.
Old school kill switch location was to remove the guts from the cigarette lighter socket and put an on-off push button switch in there under the lighter.
Nice idea there, I already gutted the functional part of my cigarette lighter (previous owner was a smoker and it was shot), would be a pretty cool place to utilize.
My old supervisor and I came up with this idea for RFID similar to new vehicles with push button start. Basically you put the rfid in your key chain or your wallet(most rfid receivers have a really short range so if you put the transponder in your wallet you would probably put the reciveiver in your seat). Then you could add push button start, and not the kind where you turn on the ignition and accessory circuits with the key or toggles and then hold a button till it starts, but where you just hit the button it powers all the circuits and it starts with one brief tap. Depending on how you wire it up you could either make it so it would cut out when you left the vehicle or you could keep it running. If somebody is genuinely interested and has a deep understanding how how vehicle electronics and remote starts work I could explain it further.
My old supervisor and I came up with this idea for RFID similar to new vehicles with push button start. Basically you put the rfid in your key chain or your wallet(most rfid receivers have a really short range so if you put the transponder in your wallet you would probably put the reciveiver in your seat). Then you could add push button start, and not the kind where you turn on the ignition and accessory circuits with the key or toggles and then hold a button till it starts, but where you just hit the button it powers all the circuits and it starts with one brief tap. Depending on how you wire it up you could either make it so it would cut out when you left the vehicle or you could keep it running. If somebody is genuinely interested and has a deep understanding how how vehicle electronics and remote starts work I could explain it further.
My old supervisor and I came up with this idea for RFID similar to new vehicles with push button start. Basically you put the rfid in your key chain or your wallet(most rfid receivers have a really short range so if you put the transponder in your wallet you would probably put the reciveiver in your seat). Then you could add push button start, and not the kind where you turn on the ignition and accessory circuits with the key or toggles and then hold a button till it starts, but where you just hit the button it powers all the circuits and it starts with one brief tap. Depending on how you wire it up you could either make it so it would cut out when you left the vehicle or you could keep it running. If somebody is genuinely interested and has a deep understanding how how vehicle electronics and remote starts work I could explain it further.
All new Corvettes are push-button start. As a matter of fact, if you walk within a certain range of your Corvette, the doors unlock and the push button is activated. Why not just get the rigging from a wrecked Corvette? Up here there are tons of 'vettes getting smashed around or stolen/stripped down, so I suppose if your location is similar, you could rig one up.
As far as the new 'vettes with their proximity lock-unlock, I know of a much cheaper and easier way to get that system. Google the K9 SOMBRA alarm, It is an rfid alarm that does both proximity alarm-disarm and it has a standard button you could use if you were unlocking your car for someone to grab something and you don't want to give them your keys. Or you could disassemble the fugly remote and just carry the rfid chip in a custom key chain.
If your car has VATS you must either disable it through PROM, put a resistor across the connector or using relays wire it up so it only shows the correct resistance to the car while the remote start is functioning.
Anybody who has ever started a push button start can skip over this paragraph. The way you start a pushbutton start vehicle is you put the "key" either in the socket in the dash or just in the car, older systems require the key to be in a slot in the dash. On most vehicles you must hold the brake pedal down and then press the PBS button on the dash, that will allow the vehicle to start. If you just push the button without applying pressure to the brake pedal that will put the car in acc mode. You could easily alter my design to adapt to your own preference but my design closely resembles a factory system.
Since I already mentioned it I will include the above alarm in my idea for RFID pushbutton start, although you could just purchase a simple RFID system too. For the safety of your vehicle it is best to use a commercially available remote start system with an input to activate the remote start, if you prefer not you can check out the12volt.com and they have a diagram on how to make a remote start with no safety features with 10 SPDT relays. Wire up the remote start as you would in any other application except with a few exceptions:
1. Leave the activation input out (usually a negative input)
2. Instead of hooking the brake deactivation wire directly up to the brake signal wire as you normally would, wire it up so that it always sees the positive signal except when the brake is pressed, so its reversed.
So far so good not much different from a typical Rem Start system.
Either using an XCRS (dei part number 500m), separate relays for each ignition and accessory wire, or if the remote start system you chose uses an external relay system (such as the dei XCRS) you could using diodes tap into the negative activation wires. I suppose even if your RS system uses internal relays you could solder directly onto the relays if you wanted. I apologize if this seems confusing, but what I am trying to say is that you need to have a way of energizing all of the circuits after the remote start shuts off.
The above paragraph could be ignored if you had a remote start system that did not have a time limit of how long the system could keep your car running. If you find one LET ME KNOW, I have been searching for quite awhile for one.
So now you have a remote start system and a second set of relays hooked up to your ignition and accessory wires.
I am going to reference the12volt.com again for diagrams because they show a way of making a switch that can make a pulse turn a device on, and the same pulse to turn the same device off. Make that switch and hook it up so that it will turn the ignition and accessory wires on with one touch and off with the next. That was the purpose of adding the extra relays in. Take the input for that switch and the negative input from your remote start and put them together on the output of your PBS button.
Now for the RFID system, if you chose to use the K9 SOMBRA system there is a ground when armed output that sends out a ground when the RFID transponder chips are out of range of the receiver. Using a relay make it so that when the ground when armed wire is sending out the negative signal it is sending no signal to the PBS button, but when the negative signal goes away it sends a negative signal to the PBS button allowing it to work.
If you just use a simple 12v RFID system it will depend on what kind of signal it sends out but you will have to do a similar thing as you would with the SOMBRA. End result you want the PBS button to have a negative signal at its input when you are in range with your transponder.
At this point if you were to bring your transponder into range and press the PBS button while holding the brake pedal down, it would activate the relays and lock the ignition and accessory wires on and activate your remote start that will start the vehicle and also activate your ignition and accessory wires. When you take your foot of the brake it will shut the remote start system off but the second set of relays, or the second inputs that you rigged up, will keep the car running until you press the button again which will shut the car off. If you just press the button without pressing the brake pedal down it will activate your ignition and accessory wires so that your radio among other things will come on without starting the car because the brake shut down circuit won't allow the remote start to energize, just as a factory style system would.
I would reccomend the factory PBS button from an 07ish Nissan Altima ($50ish) because it looks nice. I would recommend changing out the LEDs so that it illuminates in a color other than drunk piss yellow. You could also make it so that when the RFID is in range it will illuminates letting you know you are good to go. I have been unable to obtain the plug for this button because the dealership does not sell it and the pins are small but if you don't mind soldering it shouldn't be a problem.
There is also the Honda S2000 button that looks pretty sharp but it to each their own. You could really use any generic momentary button.
If you use the K9 SOMBRA it boasts a 15ft range so you could theoretically be digging through the hatch and someone could steal your car and as long as they didn't shut it off it would be theirs, there are ways of wiring it so that if the rfid leaves range it would shut the car off too.
If you have a 12v RFID system you might have a shorter range and you may need to custom mount your receiver so that your transponder will work. If you keep transponder in your wallet, receiver in the seat. On your key chain, maybe mount the receiver under your ashtray and set your keys in there when you drive. They sky is the limit.
Issues to resolve;
Shift lock on an auto
Either completely disable it or you could use a trunk pop solenoid that will pull the shift lock up when you are either in rage or after the car is started.
Steering lock
You could either disable it or modify it to the point where you could adapt to it like with the above mentioned shift lock, I haven't ever really thought this through 100% in this aspect, any feedback appreciated.
I guess theoretically you could use this system with any kind of safety feature instead of just the RFID system. I enjoy discussing this or similar topics so if anyone has anything to add let me know!
Last edited by Jeff91RS; 06-04-2009 at 08:28 PM.
Reason: Trying to clarify...
I do not recommend that someone with little or no vehicle electronics experience attempt because it is a pretty intense install. The one working example of this was installed in an 06 Charger which is a different electrical beast all together as some of you must know. DEATH TO MUX WIRE. But the Charger already had an electric steering lock release so that wasn't an issue. The total cost was under $150 buying everything on ebay using a generic 12v RFID system. My knowledge of the K9 SOMBRA is based on my second install which will be going into an '03 Silverado. That system is costing about $40 more.
I am about to be putting in a Ravelco anti theft device http://www.neverstolen.com/ (its like a professionally installed kill switch) and I'm going to have have an engine start button where my cigarette lighter used to be.
I am about to be putting in a Ravelco anti theft device http://www.neverstolen.com/ (its like a professionally installed kill switch) and I'm going to have have an engine start button where my cigarette lighter used to be.
Is that one of those things that comes with a plug with like 25 pins and when you pull it out the car doesn't start until its been reinstalled?
If so we used to call those "California Specials" because back in the day it seemed like a
lot of cars sold in The Golden State came equipped with these things and after a couple of years the owners got sick of dealing with it and we used to remove them. It takes almost 10 minutes to remove one of those things. I would really recommend something that doesn't state it was tested in Mexico.
I went on the site and read the FAQ and its completely bogus about how easy it is to bypass modern transponder systems. Those universal no key bypass kits are for remote starts and require 1 if not 2 factory keys to program the module to work. I sincerely hope you do not waste your money on that system.
They also claim that a thief can saw through a CLUB in 22 seconds, I would love to meet that thief and buy his hacksaw. That site spews BS, transponder systems cannot be "wired around" they send a signal to the ecu, so unless you were planning on wiring around the ecu that wouldn't work. I am sorry that site made me mad.
I don't want to post up how easy it is to bypass online because I'm not about to write a "How To" on stealing a car.
What wire do you cut to install a simple kill switch?
Well you could cut your fuel pump wire, coil power wire, or the ignition or starter wire at your key cylinder. It depends on if you want the car to crank and no start or just not crank.
That is extremely overpriced! I admit my design is a bit excessive and a tad complicated but at least its affordable.
Wasnt endorsing the product, just sayin i saw it, and if somone wants to buy it, go for it, ill pass, i got VATS anyway, not that its great protection but more than nothing, plus if somone wants ur car bad enough they will get it, plus people dont really steal these too much anymore, just break in and take stuff and a kill swich is worthess for that, ur better off just installing a car alarm that will just annoy people, when was the last time u heard a car alarm go off and be like "hey i should check that out" its more like "shut that damn thing off"
Well you could cut your fuel pump wire, coil power wire, or the ignition or starter wire at your key cylinder. It depends on if you want the car to crank and no start or just not crank.
I would want it to kill all electronics, but at the same rate I don't want to have it disconnect at the battery.
I would want it to kill all electronics, but at the same rate I don't want to have it disconnect at the battery.
Well to kill all electronics you would have to do a battery disconnect, you could also put the kill switch on the red power wires going into the key switch so nothing that is activated by the key switch can be used unless the switch is triggered.
What wire do you cut to install a simple kill switch?
The easiest way is the I hope I'm remembering right, the yellow ignition wire under the steering column. Drop the kick panel and find the yellow wire...same concept for hotwiring.
This is not some flimsy wire like the ones behind your radio either, it has some decent gauge size. Real easy to know if you have the right one, cut it and try to start the car. If it doesn't start, splice it back and try again....should start. What I did was to run the two cut wires side-by-side up under the gauges to hide it from view and zip tie them to the wires up there. You will not see them without getting on your back at that point. I pulled them through to the radio housing, ran them down the side of the radio housing, under the radio housing, through the center console and out the rear hole where the screw holds down the center console.
I took a black plastic track cover from the seats and cut it to form a cover over the switch inside the center console. I could've taken it a step further (should've it would been much better concealed anyway) and ran it farther back into the ashtray in the back of the center console. Wish I had some pix to show you.
i talked to a guy who professionally installed ignition kill switches, he told me what to do but i can't figure out which wires to splice into. maybe someone here can help...
he made the circuit complete with a relay up for me, all i have to do is wire up 3 wires. he said the start wire should be a yellow or purple heavy wire. he said one wire needed to go to the start wire on the key side, and the other the start wire on the motor side. how do i know which is the start wire, and how do i know if its the starter or motor side? does it matter?
2 of the wires just splice into an existing circuit, and the switch just goes to ground. then when you flip the switch it grounds out the circuit. i'm just not sure which wire to splice into.
My simple idea is to put a kill switch in with the seatbelt light. If you don't buckle you're seatbelt, the car dosen't start. Honestly. How many thevies put there seatbelt on to steal a car. Plus it makes it a nice saftey feture. Adam :-)
An iButton is a small ID chip within a sealed can and looks very much like a battery but it is coded with a unique 64 bit serial number.
My idea is to interface the iButton with a PIC microcontroller and use the PIC microcontroller to send the 30Hz or 50Hz signal to the ECM and a signal to a relay in series with the Park/Neutral switch.
Very much like the VATS setup but with the iButton instead of the chip key.
Of course, you could stick in additional relays for the coil voltage also and the fuel pump circuit but doing so will also increase the number of fault points.
On the other hand, the code for the chip will be so small, there is more than enough room to code a simple fault/diagnosis system with a simple number display to pin point the fault.
Writing the firmware for the chip will be a piece of cake!
way back when a buddy of mine was living in Hollywood FL (just outside Miami) he installed a old style headlight dimmer floor switch in the normal old school position (looked factory) click on (power to the coil), click off (no power to the coil)
K.I.S.S. "Keep It Simple Stupid"
2 of the wires just splice into an existing circuit, and the switch just goes to ground. then when you flip the switch it grounds out the circuit. i'm just not sure which wire to splice into.
is there a better way?
Like I said, find the ignition wire, cut it in half, splice a couple of wires on each side and route them to wherever you choose, put a toggle switch at the end of that, put everything back together, done.
My simple idea is to put a kill switch in with the seatbelt light. If you don't buckle you're seatbelt, the car dosen't start. Honestly. How many thevies put there seatbelt on to steal a car. Plus it makes it a nice saftey feture. Adam :-)
Thats simple genius right their! I see that their is a seatbelt light in the gauge cluster, but does it do anything? i've never seen it illuminated.
Thats simple genius right their! I see that their is a seatbelt light in the gauge cluster, but does it do anything? i've never seen it illuminated.
I'm not sure that would be such a good idea if the seat belt light was to burn out. Another place I've seen the kill switch route to is the coil. You can splice into the cables in the coil and route your kill switch that way. It's better hidden than the obvious ignition wire. There are several ways to do it. I've also seen them routed through the starter as well.
I think what you guys are thinking about are what are referred to as "modified" kill switches. Modded kill switchs don't have a toggle switch per say but an existing button in the car. Could be the rear defroster button, the power window button, etc. I remember about ten years ago, my cousin who lived in Mexico City at the time, had developed a kill switch out of a hidden screw. The way it worked was basically, you created the ground as you would put the keys in and turn and turn and turn but the car would not start. As soon as you put your finger on the screw and turned the key, the car would start.
I never did get the schematic or at least the kit he made to do this.
I'm not sure that would be such a good idea if the seat belt light was to burn out. Another place I've seen the kill switch route to is the coil. You can splice into the cables in the coil and route your kill switch that way. It's better hidden than the obvious ignition wire. There are several ways to do it. I've also seen them routed through the starter as well.
I think what you guys are thinking about are what are referred to as "modified" kill switches. Modded kill switchs don't have a toggle switch per say but an existing button in the car. Could be the rear defroster button, the power window button, etc. I remember about ten years ago, my cousin who lived in Mexico City at the time, had developed a kill switch out of a hidden screw. The way it worked was basically, you created the ground as you would put the keys in and turn and turn and turn but the car would not start. As soon as you put your finger on the screw and turned the key, the car would start.
I never did get the schematic or at least the kit he made to do this.
I have seen these, the ones with the rear defrost aren't going to stop a pro because everyone I have ever seen was hooked to the rear defrost of the illumination for the interior lights.
But, I do like this screw idea. Ace Hardware has low voltage tap lights and they work at 12v. So you could get one of those lights and dismantle it to use the screw as the trigger and for it to activate the starter kill relay instead of the light.
I also used to see the delay kill switch, If you were to get in the car key in hand and turn the key straight to start it wouldn't start. You have to turn the car to on, wait 5 seconds then start it.
I have seen these, the ones with the rear defrost aren't going to stop a pro because everyone I have ever seen was hooked to the rear defrost of the illumination for the interior lights.
It is the most obvious location isn't it? I would agree with you on it's location 20 years ago but today's car thieves are not as clever as those from yesteryear and some have never seen a kill switch (don't ask me how I know). They're more used to popping out the A/C vents to look for the Lo-Jack transmitter than even the simplest of methods.
Simply put, they are so easy to steal it's hard. The grounded screw was the best budget kill switch I'd ever seen and that S.O.B. cousin of mine simply didn't want to share it. I may not want to admit it but that's the reality. I bet somehow he'd thought I'd go north of the border and patent it, get rich and leave him in the cold but then again that would be as stupid as trying to patent a, well, kill switch!
I'm not sure that would be such a good idea if the seat belt light was to burn out. Another place I've seen the kill switch route to is the coil. You can splice into the cables in the coil and route your kill switch that way. It's better hidden than the obvious ignition wire. There are several ways to do it. I've also seen them routed through the starter as well.
I think what you guys are thinking about are what are referred to as "modified" kill switches. Modded kill switchs don't have a toggle switch per say but an existing button in the car. Could be the rear defroster button, the power window button, etc. I remember about ten years ago, my cousin who lived in Mexico City at the time, had developed a kill switch out of a hidden screw. The way it worked was basically, you created the ground as you would put the keys in and turn and turn and turn but the car would not start. As soon as you put your finger on the screw and turned the key, the car would start.
I never did get the schematic or at least the kit he made to do this.
My car had the "hidden screw" that I had to ground out on in order for the car to work. That worked for a while but eventually stopped working and disabled my car one day until I pulled it out. ... fail basically.
What about a seatbelt buckle with a safety switch in it? Do car thieves clip their seat belts before they try to start cars? It's not as clever as putting one in a ground screw, light switch, etc, but you also don't have to do anything extra to start your car.
My simple idea is to put a kill switch in with the seatbelt light. If you don't buckle you're seatbelt, the car dosen't start. Honestly. How many thevies put there seatbelt on to steal a car. Plus it makes it a nice saftey feture. Adam :-)
SHHHHHH....that's what I did to all my kids cars so I knew they would buckle up! No buckle, no fire
__________________ JohnnyT
1992 Z28 Convertible, 5 - speed
LB9/M5, 38,674 miles when purchased
-------------
1996 SS SLP #0120, 6-speed, LT1/M6, Black, 133K miles FOR SALE $3900
-------------
1986 Monte Carlo SS, Street/Strip, LT1, 4L60e
-------------
1977 Malibu Classic, 101K miles, 305 auto
I'm currently restoring my interior and after I painted the ashtray I figured since I don't actually use it might as well make it useful. I toom a SPST radial lock and cut a hole in the deep part of the ashtray and installed it there. I am going to hook it to the park safety wires.
Alot of this sounds pretty cool but it seems a little over the top to me.If its going to be parked away from me for a while the msd digital6 in my car can be set to not fire.I also will pull the fuel pump fuse.I do plan on running a switch/button somewhere to the fuel pump fuse so I dont have to pop the hood.simple and it works.Not trying to rain on anyones parade or discourage yall.atleast your using your heads and being creative.keep it up.
mo
