Jeffs82TA

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Nobody has ever figured out this issue not even 4th gen guys so maybe someone here can help. The car is a 1997 camaro. It started with it's left DRL burning out but when light bulb was replaced the DRL would never work again.

When a bulb is put in the socket it lights up but more like a running light where as the DRL is the turn signal illuminated. The passenger side DRL works fine but it just went out as well.

Another issue it is having, when all lights are on one of the multiple 3rd brake light bulbs stays lit and others are out. Then when brake pedal is depressed left rear tail light and brake light tgo out while the right rear tail light and brake light work fine.

turn signals will not flash front nor light up when signal stalk is moved however rear turn signals will light up and flash if you keep moving the stalk.

I have noticed the left rear tail light pigtail has a little corrosion in it but the right doesn't. Car has absolutely no butchered wires and nothing has ever electrically been done to it since I bought it new.

I also noticed my cruise control will never work now and it started acting up after that DRL refused to light up again. whether it is related or coincedence I am not sure.

All it's other interior and exterior lights function normally as well as it's automatic light function and the lights can manually be turned on as well. It was thought to be my head light switch by GM but I think in the car lifetime I have used the headlight switch maybe ten times. I have also noticed I am prematurely burning out right front low beam headlights a lot.

I figure if one is doing it there is bound to be others that have done this and someone knows what is causing it.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check the grounds on all of the lights. It's possible that corrosion destroyed the ground wire on the bad DRL and your moving it finished it off, so now it doesn't work, period.

Tail light sounds like a ground feedback caused by the above. You already said there is corrosion in the pigtail, so it's probably time for a new socket on the affected light.

Jeffs82TA

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Its a california car so no corrosion on any grounds. The drl initially stopped working when I hit a really bad pothole. I have noticed the drl sockets are browned and brittle almost (presumeably from the higher heat from turn signals always being on) But can these have shorted out internally?

If the sockets are at fault can they be re-pinned instead of splicing the wires?

Jeffs82TA

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also I forgot to add, when all lights are off all brake lights work normally.

Maverick H1L

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Just because there isn't any corrosion on any grounds doesn't mean something didn't puncture a wire and allow water to get in and eat at the wires inside, or that a wire isn't broken internally. Make sure that the light sockets have good ground connections with a meter between the outer ring of the socket and its ground point.

I'd be willing to bet that what you have as an issue in the left brake light is a backfeeding problem with the lights on. It's kind of similar to an issue that occasionally pops up on Bird headlights when the ground goes bad. When the ground goes bad, an issue happens when the light switches from low to high beams. The unaffected headlight acts as normal and gets brighter when switched, but the affected headlight just about goes out because the high beam is trying to backfeed through the low beam circuit instead of the ground as usual, because the ground is bad. And, with the tail lights, since that happens, the brake light dims out and the running light (parking light) goes out because there is voltage on both sides of the socket. No path to ground means light bulb no light.

Again, start poking around with a DMM between the sockets and their grounds. Yes, the overheated turn signals, due to the DRL system, could either be shorting internally or not making contact because the sockets have melted and allowed the bulbs to come loose.

Jeffs82TA

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okay so I took a good look at car today.

so here is details on what is happening and I can find no ground issues whatsoever.

car running r/f drl now comes on after bulb replacement

car running r/f & r/r turn signal flash normally

car running l/f turn signal will not even light up blue wire also has no power in it using test light however l/r turn signal lights up but wont flash

lights off brake lights seem to light up using same filiment that is lit up when light are on. Then when lights are on this same filiment lights up then when brake pedal is depressed it goes out. However the 3rd brake light works normally.

hazard lights will all work except for l/f signal

nothing I do changes anything, being I have no power coming through the l/f blue wire could this be my turn signal switch inside my column causing this? Could the brake light issue be related to a potential turn signal switch problem?

The blue wire going to the l/f turn signal won't do what the r/f blue wire does yet has grounds inside socket identical to the r/f socket and being the l/f turn signal blue wire has no power even before the socket and all fuses are fine these wires would originate from the turn signal switch itself wouldn't they?

Being my hazards and one turn signal works a flasher thing isn't suspect is it?

I think it is useless to replace light sockets since they all have power internally and grounds internally except for this blue wire. I know they are burned and brittle from excess heat but they are getting power to the inside.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Brake lights:
Swap the RH side bulbs in place of the others. Then test. It's either a ground issue or one of the filaments in one of the LH bulbs is bad, shorting to the dim filament. Check for power on both sockets at the high filament wire (either yellow or dark green) with the brake lights on. Again, if the system is working properly, with the brake lights on, the power should come from the brake switch, go through the high filament, and to ground. Yours seems to be going from the switch, through the high filament, and into the low one.
LH turn light:
If the indicator on the dash lights when the turn signal stalk is put in the left turn position, there is no issue with the switch. Get under the dash and find the light blue wire in the big blocky connector (C200). The wire is in the shorter row of wires, near the connecting bolt. Use a test light and probe D6 to ground with either the turn signal in LH turn or the hazards on. The bulb should flash (provided it's not an LED test light). If it does, you have an issue between this connector and the light. If not, there is an issue in the dash wiring. Reason the DRL isn't working on this side is because there is an issue with the light blue wire.

Jeffs82TA

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the r/s dash turn signal indicator does flash. the l/s indicator stays lit but does not flash when stalk is pressed down. Cancelling feature works fine as well. r/s low beam headlight issue resolve its connector broke off and wiring was dangling (cheap china part most probable cause this time)

I will try the bulb swap on my tail lights.

Can I run a jumper wire past sections of connectors to narrow down where the problem is without worrying about making the matters worse?

could it be the brake switch itself? Mine basically has 2 wires then about 4 more wires on another connector on this switch. Or does the fact my 3rd brake light is working mean the switch is fine?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The reason the left turn indicator on the dash is staying steady is because there is too much resistance in the circuit to set off the flasher, which is basically nothing more than a quick-reset circuit breaker, because the LH front turn signal isn't working. Probe the blue wire in the C200 D6 with a test light to test the circuit from there. There should be enough resistance in the test light to set off the flasher. Again, if the flasher works on LH turn with the test light at C200 D6, there is a problem between there and the socket.

As for the brake lights, the switch is split into 2 separate switches. One is for the cruise control (3rd gens have a separate switch for the CC) and the other is the brake lights. If the RH brake lights and the HMSL are working, you can assume that the brake light switch isn't the problem, it's between the tail harness connector and the bulbs in the LH tail light.

Jeffs82TA

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I mentioned the switch as well because my cruise used to just up and stop working and now it wont engage at all. I pulled the switch and played with it but it did nothing out of the normal. I will do more tests tomorrow.

thanks for the help.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

alright day two

test pigtail wires on tail light brake light combo. Lights on power at brown wire at each pigtail. lights on and brakes on power at both blue and brown wires. However when when I mess with either black wire at each pigtail the lights start wigging out.

I then jabbed a small piece of clothes hanger into where the black wire enters each socket and this made my lights start working correctly. So I gues I am dealing with a socket issue in this case. But they are working now with the clothes hanger till I can replace the sockets.

Sockets through NAPA are almost 40.00 a piece so that will be for another time.

Now for the L/F turn signal issue, probing the connector at the steering column (keep in mind I forgot the color but believe green was right turn signal and yellow was left) When probing the right turn signal I have a flashing light with turn signal stalk in up position. However with stalk in down position the test light only illuminates it will not flash.

from this connector the wire would go to the turn signal flasher unit would it not? I will probe the L/F pigtail better tomorrow but at least I have power coming from the turn signal switch. The L/F running lights work fine so don't think this is a ground issue. Could there be a separate fuse relay for L & R front DRL that is causing this as well?

So far my R turn signal and DRL is operating normally and the daytime conditions shut this DRL on and off and when it is on it still flashes as a turn signal.

So I guess power to a L/F turn/DRL is elsewhere besides inside the car.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

These should help... In the exterior lights diagram, the 2 lines pointing down on the left side are for the front... They split into 2 separate diagrams whether or not the car has the DRL option, but they're still the same. The C200 is under the driver's side of the dash, tucked up close to the bottom of the interior fuse panel. It's a big blocky thing with a bolt in the middle, you can't possibly miss it. The entire body harness runs through here (engine harness is on the passenger's side).

:edit: Don't know how the sockets for any of the lights could be $40... I've bought a couple and never paid more than $10 a piece.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

So the green and yellow wires at the column connector I probed are in fact for the back turn signals. My camaro doesn't have tail/brake/turn combination. It only has tail/brake combination and it's turn signal is a individual amber lense in the tail light.

But according to your diagram L/Blue & D/blue are the wires that go to the front turn signals.

I will probe those wires tomorrow and see what happens. Could there be a wiring difference between your 95 diagram and a 97? I didn't think a 95 had DRL option.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

I found reference to this TSB regarding lighting issues on 1997 f-bodies and wonder if it could be my DRL module as well.

Hello,
After fighting with a similar problem on my 97 but on the passenger side, I found a TSB #(73-82-12)that mentioned the DRL module. Here is what it says;

Lights - Erratic Headlamps or Turn Signal Operation

File In Section: 8 - Chassis/Body Electrical

Bulletin No.: 73-82-12

Date: October, 1997

Subject:
Erratic Operation of Headlamp Doors, Headlamps, or Turn Signals
(Replace DRL Module, Change Mounting)

Models:
1997-98 Chevrolet Camaro
1997-98 Pontiac Firebird

Important : The following information is offered as a diagnostic aid, as this condition is very rare, and may be difficult to correct using normal diagnostic methods.

Condition

Some owners may comment on erratic operation of the headlamp doors (Pontiac Only), headlamps, daytime running lamps, or turn signals. The most common conditions are the headlamp doors opening by themselves, or the lights staying on all the time.

Important : A separate condition on Pontiac models is that the lights come on, but the headlamp's doors do not open. This can usually be corrected by properly tightening the battery cables.

Cause

In high heat and humidity situations, water can condense on the air conditioning duct and travel into and accumulate in the Daytime Running Lamp (DRL) module.

Correction

Replace the DRL module, P/N 10407669. Mount the new module with the electrical connectors facing down. The module is located on the A/C ductwork behind the radio and HVAC controls (see the 1997 Service Manual, Figure 7, Page 8C-11).

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I don't think GM changed the wiring between 95 and 97 for the body too much. Heck, the same wire colors are in the 3rd gen harness as well (currently running 4th gen dash with full harness connected to my 3rd gen body harnesses).

Also, I believe the DRL module is in some sort of "pocket" under the middle of the dash, if you want to check that out as per the TSB above. Most of the info I have is from a 95, from shbox.

:edit: And the DRL was an option as far back as 92 (that I have proof for in an FSM).

Jeffs82TA

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I would actually like to delete the drl since it is so harsh on sockets and bulbs all the time but don't want to lose my automatic lights. Those are nice and saves me the hassle of turning a switch

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I probed the male/female connector coming out of my steering column. and based on your diagram my car has the same color wires specific to the turn signals. Using a test light wires related to the right turn signal front and rear cause the test light to flash. Wires related to the left turn signal front and rear only stay lit solid.

So I guess this means the problem is else where in my harness.

The making better contact of my ground wires at my tail lights also resulted in the cruise control working again and one thing I failed to mention was the ABS inop light was on as well. Odd as it sounds that no longer comes on but ignition on turns the abs inop light on for a bulb test.

I am going to check the DRL module later this week and see if it is the culprit and probe the L/F socket better and try the same clothes hanger thing I did on my tail lights. If I have to I will just replace all the sockets but I just see no wiring issues anywhere on the car. All light body grounds are tight.

I will probe the bulkhead connector and see where exactly this light blue wire loses power. The DRL module seems to be priced cheaply and my car is subject to the conditions the TSB mentioned since I use my a/c a lot usually every day.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Well I came across a 1997 camaro wiring diagram and where your diagram shows the wires coming out of the turn signal going directly to the turn signals. This 1997 diagram shows the wires from the turn signal switch but instead of going to the turn signals on the front, they go into the DRL module first.

So I am wondering if this is the heart of my problem.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, the reason I didn't post up the diagram for the T61 DRL option is because I don't have that diagram. I don't have that option, so I didn't need it. And I don't know how similar the 97 DRL option is to the 92 manual I have which does have the T61 DRL stuff in it. I gave you those diagrams for a starting point.

Best thing you can do is to hunt down the module under the dash and look at the connector. You'll know the corrosion if you see it, it's pretty nasty.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Well, I got the drl module out of my car. Pretty simple to do since it is right behind the radio. I have no sign of corrosion at all. I opened it up and it looks brand new inside.

When the pigtail that holds the front turn signal wires is removed the right turn signal does exactly what the left has been doing. I'm going to try and put power to the L/F output wire and see if this will light up my L/F turn signal.

Apparently this module is 370.00 at GM I went to GMpartsdirect and it is around 230.00 there.

Wonder if applying power to the L/F signals wire works if the input and output wires can be spliced and if this will bypass the DRL while still keeping all of the modules other functions. Simply unplugging it makes matters worse by the way and other stuff stops working on the car.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

By jumping the lightblue/white stripe wire coming from my turn signal switch to the light blue wire from the drl module that goes to the L/F turn signal it will flash.

So my DRL module is without a doubt bad. I'm going to pull the terminals out of the DRL module pigtail and connect them together and see if that will just bypass the drl control and still keep the other stuff working.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Here is all you do to bypass or get a front turn signal issue solved. I am not sure if this will work on a later or earlier model but this stopped my drl and turn signal issue but my automatic headlights still work.

Simply remove the DRL module and unplug the pigtail with these wires, then unpin these wires from the drl module pigtail (real easy to do) light blue with a white stripe and the light blue wire and connect them together. Then remove the dark blue with white stripe wire and the dark blue wire and connect them together.

Then plug the DRL module pigtails back in, this will bypass the daytime running lights and retain the automatic headlights and turn signals will work normally as will 4 way flashers.

Thanks for your help Maverick!



yes I used solderless connectors.