campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Right now I'm running an old 305 TBI with 167,000 miles. It runs reasonably well, but the factory 170 (and now probably 130-140ish or less) horsepower is disappointing to say the least. The tranny seems to shift ok and I haven't had any problems with it so far. To my knowledge, neither have been rebuilt or had any major work done on them.

I'm looking ahead, and while I will have a little money for this car, there's not gonna be any time soon where I've got enough money to drop a really serious motor in it. I've also never cracked open a motor before and I'm pretty sure I don't really have the tools or anything to do much of it right now. The only advantage I have, is this car is not my daily driver, so it can sit disabled or in a shop or something for a little while.

With the background out of the way, I'd like to see the motor putting out something around 300-350hp or so when I'm done. More would always be great, but I'd be perfectly satisfied as long as it could touch 300hp or so.

I've seen the raging debates for all sorts of different situations, so my question is, what do you think the cheapest way for me to reach my goals and not catch myself on fire? (Ok, thats a bit dramatic, but still....)

Should I rebuild the 305, drop in a 350? Try tooling around in there myself, or take it to a shop? Leave the TBI in there or try to convert to TPI? This is still a ways off, but I'm trying to figure out which direction to research.

Wadebryant

Are you required to pass visual and or emmissions testing?

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Ooh, I forgot to include that. No, Illinois has some of the most relaxed automotive laws in the nation. As long as its got license plates front and back, and all the lights work, pretty much nothing else matters.

Only thing that seems to matter locally, is if your car is louder than harley davidson at WOT, then you'll probably get pulled over.

Wadebryant

http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...number=LB383CL

Check out the link above, they also carry 350's. Competition products carries mild to wild, just depends on your budget, plans and goals. If you have the time, order one of their catalogs too. You may decide to build a motor?

For my money, I'd skip the 305 rebuild but that's just my

If you just need a long block then; http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...er=EN350L-LONG

Good luck with your hunt!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Rebuilding a 305, especially a TBI 305, is a waste of performance $'s. You can make them run better, but as soon as you start talking rings, pistons, and bearings, it's time to look for a 350.

The TBI forum has a sticky about a budget 350 build. If you keep TBI, then consider that route.

If you convert to carb, then it's pretty much wide open what you do. But, rebuilding the 305 still doesn't make sense.

85irocz355tpi

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so at about every turn, I'm seeing that the 305 is just a flat out waste of money. So now that I've got a few ideas under my belt, let me modify the question:

Should the swap be a Vortec 350 TBI like the budget build in the TBI sticky?
Or should I just go find a wrecked 4th gen F-body with an LT1 or LS1?

I'm hearing that swapping out the TBI is a pain, but I'm also hearing that if you drop in an LT1 or LSI, its made up for by all the other stuff that's compatible. Again, I'm a novice at this, so which would I be better off trying? or if you think I should just have a shop do it for me, which would be better?

85irocz355tpi

The tbi 350 would be easiest. If you want 300hp out of it you will have to have a custom prom burned for it and will most likely want an alluminum tbi intake and have the tbi worked over. I wouldn't bother with the LT1 there not all that there cracked up to be. If your gonna go with a fourth gen powertrain then the LS1 would be better. But you'll have to change the trans and the motor mounts. This has been done before and I think a few people on here have done it so you shouldn't have a problem with finding those parts. You'll have to change the engine harness and computer too but If you got the motor out and can get the harness out of the car the LS1 came out of then You should be set. If you get stuck I'm sure plenty of people on here would be willing to help as much as we can. Hope this helps and keep us posted on the project.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

Their ad says no warranty. I don't think I'd buy an engine that didn't come with one.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

This is the heart of my problem for the last 7 years. I had a 4th gen Z28 with an LT1. I absolutly loved that motor when it was working right. But more often than not, i was driving a rental Escort instead of that thing, and I payed mechanics to replace all the oil seals 3 times before I gave up on it.

I want a budget car that feels like that Z did, but without the headaches it gave me. So a vortec or an LS1. Which to go with? Like I said, this project is a little ways away, but I'm trying to research. I'm leaning toward the vortec route, just because it seems like it may be easier, but the scale of the project still overwhelms me.

My other thought, is if its worth having a shop do it for me. Anyone have any idea if thats even a viable option, or am I gonna end up paying like crazy for a non-standard swap? Am I better off trying it myself?

ccook-92-305

LS1 would be fun but once you look at all the work involved at getting it in once youve got it you might think twice.

you can splice the 2 harnesses 2gether but you need a chiltons manual and some good electrical talent to pull it off. otherwise hawks makes a conversion harness but its $1000.

dont forget motor mounts, k-member mods, transmission etc.

my .02 says stick with the gen I 350. and throw a carb on it.

Good luck!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

You bring up another interesting point. TBI or carb. My experience with carbs is frustrating to say the least. I've got a caddy with a quadra jet on it, and that thing won't work right no matter what you do to it. Please tell me a carb on these things isn't as bad?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The typical carb on "these things" is the computer controlled q-jet. Great carb. I kind of doubt you want to go through the harness/ECM conversion to handle it, though.

The typical EFI to carb is Holley or Edelbrock. I have no love lost for Edelbrocks, so take this with a grain of salt. Holleys are one of the most common performance carbs out there, there's a bunch of stuff for them, they are relatively simple to understand and tune (if you take the time to understand what various things do, and what to change to affect different operating characteristics).

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Sorry for the "these things" bit. My post-midnight grammar starts to slip. The problems I have with the quadra-jet on my other car are complex, one of them being that really weird way that they somehow attach to the cruise control on that car, which causes some clearance issues. Its really hard to explain without seeing it, but I'm fed up with dealing with that certain carb.

So which is easier and more cost efficient to do? Stay with TBI and adjust it, or go with the carb?

ccook-92-305

well you have to think the new injectors for the 350 are gonna run you about 175-200 bucks plus the tuneing equiptment will b another 200-300 depending on how you do it. so sticking with the tbi (not figuring the endless hours of tuning) is gonna run you a minimum of 375 bucks. a 600 edelbrock carb from jegs is 300 bucks plus a regulator and youll have it tuned in 5 minutes.

its 6 to one half dozen to the other and you can play with a lot more stuff once youve got the tbi tuning stuff. carb youll get more power though and its a lot easier to work with and less chance of messin sumtin up.

my vote is always carb but im oldschool, so to answer your questions easier = carb, cost efficient = about the same either way depending on how you do it.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Ok, well I'm always into not messing things up, lol. If a carb is simpler and gives you more power, then maybe thats the way to go. If I do go that way, do I still need to stick with the vortec motor as the most economical option, or is there a better choice?

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

So I've been looking around online at motors, and I'm finding 2 new ones that seem to fit the bill (not necessarily going new, but they are good examples).

One of them is the 290 hp ultra budget motor that you seem to be able to get for around $1,900. But so far I haven't seen any comments from owners that are good.

The other is the 330 hp motor that is referred to as the "350 H.O with Vortec heads" motor. While its right on the edge of what I want to spend, and I'd probably do much better price-wise if I found a used one like this, I think its right along the line of what I'm searching for. What do you guys think, is that a good direction to head?

ccook-92-305

the 350 HO is the engine im buyin this summer from JEGS. im gonna get their dress model. its right on the edge of what everything behind it will handle (trans, rear end etc.) the 350/290 from gmpp would be an awesome motor for the price but i just wanted to go a little farther. im probably gonna get a performer RPM and an edelbrock carb because i hate holleys and the intake looks too tall to fit under our hoods, besides ive got another project theyll work on. ill probably get some electric fuel pump with around 110 gph like a holley blue or somthin. just because i dont like the whole regulator on our stock pump idea much.

im also gonna go with a hughes 2500 stall w/lockup and use the switch from the tech article. so thats wut im gonna do.