Firebird Mess85

Just got some pictures of my 85 Firebird that the guy 2 owners ago had swapped an LG4 305 in place of the original 2.8L Fuel Injected V6. From the engine code and the valve covers it appears to be from 1987 and Vin Code H.


I have no idea if the swap was done right and I'm trying to figure it out. There are a lot of wires everwhere and lots of stuff disconnected. I have no clue if the guy left the 2.8 computer in or how to tell this. I'm just trying to figure out what the hell the past owner did.


There appears to be a lot more wiring in the engine than in my friend's '87 Camaro convertible with the Fuel Injected 305.

Any help and input would be appreciated. Thanks.


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f6...4/000_0144.jpg

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Bowtiebruiser

I've swapped a 305 TPI into my 91 RS (going to run SCCA solo1 with it) and mine looks nothing like that and I dont even have my wiring done yet. I wouldnt know where to begin, you may want to contact JT or one of the senior members. Does it run?

Firebird Mess85

Yeah, it runs.... Timing is off and carb secondaries don't work but it runs and drives. It's just slow and doesn't seem right to me.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The 2.8 computer wouldn't run the carb 305. So, unless it's running without a computer (is the SES light coming on?), that isn't the case.

How do you know the secondaries aren't opening? They won't sitting in the driveway blipping the throttle.

If the timing is off, get it set correctly. You can't expect the engine to run properly if the timing is set improperly.

Bowtiebruiser

and it looks like a quadrajet so it's vacuum secondaries it may not be hooked up right however five seven is right they wont open just revving it. Theres a wire (or should be) on your fire wall near the distributor I believe the wire is brown you need to unplug it before you start using a timing light or messing with the distributor hoping for improvement

Firebird Mess85

Yeah, the SES light is on (code 12).

The seller told me there were carb problems before I bought the car. I have 2 other Quadrajets and both I can at least move the lever piece and have the secondaries move except for on my current carb. I can not open the secondary lower butterfly piece ever on my current carb and can on my other two Quadrajets.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Just code 12? If the SES light is on (and properly connected), that would mean the ECM is faulty.

It looks like all of the carb electrical connections are there. That means at least the harness was brought over from the donor car. Whether everything is hooked up beyond that, like the brown distributor wire mentioned above, is a different story.

If the choke is even partially closed, the lower secondary butterfly will not open because there is a lock-out mechanism as part of the choke.

Fyrstorm

iTrader: (1)

If it's anything like my Trans Am the battery is on the wrong side, and so is the charcoal cannister. They should be vice versa. That would clear up the room on your driver fender for that bellows looking thing in the bottom right of picture 124. It tucks in next to the rad and the canister sits next to it, both on the driver side.

Just for future reference once the other things are sorted out.

Firebird Mess85

I feel like I have a nightmare of a car. Theres too many wires that I have no clue about and vacuum lines not connected and plugged. Is that normal for a V6 to V8 swap?


If the ECM was faulty would that mess with the electric choke on the carb or any other aspects of the carb like not opening the secondaries?





What is that black thing behind the wires by the firewall in the top photo below (second pic is a closer look). Is it the MAP sensor? Whatever it is, is it bad the it appears that a vacuum line is disconected?













In the pic below, the charcoal canister is not completely connected. Does this affect anything?













Anybody know what the wires below are? I thought one was a relay?











What is that metal thing by the valve cover that has the tubes branching out by the heat riser?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

HOLY.......wow......

Some folks need to never do a project like a swap again. haha.

Man, you have one heck of a mess on your hands. I dont even have much advice to give ya. Just that I hope you sort out the other guys mess and get her running good.

My course of action, albeit a lot of work, would be to pull it all apart, and start the heck over. Maybe make the car non-computer controlled all together and just go old school carb. Eliminate the wiring all together.

Either that, or pull it all apart, labeling the wires that are actually hooked up, and then get some good wiring diagrams and start sorting through it all. You might be able to get rid of a lot of the original wiring, and replace it completely with the V8 wiring...instead of half and half.

Good luck man!

J.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It is if things aren't kept track of during the process.

No. The ECM doesn't have anything to do with the choke.

It's the barometric pressure sensor. It isn't supposed to have anything connected to it. It's supposed to have a block of foam around the "nipple" to protect the sensor from dirt, but they typically deteriorate off. Mine hasn't had anything over it for years. The bracket is supposed to be mounted to the cowl lip just above where it is mounted - you can see the hole for it in your picture.

If the vacuum sources at the engine are open, yes.

Those are the Air Injection Reaction tubes. Commonly referred to as the "smog pump".

Alaska Hwy 1Le

So all they do is add clean air to the exhaust to lower Nox/Sox emmission percentages?

So that means my car will run OK and not trip codes if I got headers and left that out?

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Only question I have is how much did you pay for this car? lol
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Yeh, A lot of people run without the smog pump.

Fyrstorm

iTrader: (1)

I've just disovered that relay myself, it mounts up in front of the battery (in it's usual spot on the passenger side) and behind the headlight area.

I'm curious to know what that relay does as well, cause I thought I found all the headlight related relays

I wonder how long the battery cables are to get to the starter that's on the opposite side of the engine hehe! And where they were routed!

A lot of people have posted pics of their motors, you might find that a good starting point to trace where things go. Especially up front on the intake manifold where the top rad hose connects. There is a ton of stuff on there that could be set up properly, or at the very least better than it is. But if it works... !

Firebird Mess85

800 bucks! The bodys good. I just don't have a damn clue whats going on with the engine. I've never seen anything like this in other cars with 305s.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

800 bucks aint bad for a V8 car that drives.

But if I were you, I would just pull the engine, clean up all the rust on the car, paint the engine bay, and reinstall the engine the proper way along with a new exhaust.

Firebird Mess85

Isn't the engine installed correctly, just the wiring a mess?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I don't see as much of a problem with wiring as I do with plumbing - vacuum stuff plugged off, hoses dangling, etc. The wiring looks like they took the entire V8 harness and installed it. There may be issues where you don't have photos, but nothing shouts out at me from what you show. The connector with nothing on it by the headlight most likely isn't an engine connector, but I don't know that for sure.

I don't know why you're getting an SES light and only Code 12 is coming up - could be a wiring issue. If he did all of the engine harness change-out, then left the V6 computer in - that just makes no sense (but, wouldn't be the first time a nonsense swap was done).

Bowtiebruiser

The only reason it looks so bad is because all of the black wire cases have been removed(the black plasic flexy things that hide wires) I would swap out the bad carb you got with another Q-jet and then see what happens.

timeflyere6

well lets c what i would do, go back unplug every thing remove hoses leave just engine leave the basic the stuff u know is right then got to one of the many 6 to 8 swap and follow direction remeber this way u cant go wrong every thing would be done perfect no guessing might be a lot of work but at least if anything ever goes you wont be in a worse mess. just my sugestion and as for the car replace it like this guy said but before you do that unplug and redo if you dont could be a worse mess in the end

Firebird Mess85

Well I'm going to dig into this a little more today if the rain doesn't come back. Most of the wires route back behind the engine by the firewall and I can't see or reach them after that point. Would they be routing into the car through the firewall behind the dash? I was thinking about taking the dash apart. What would be the best way to go about trying to see what wires do what.

Also, is there any way to tell if the guy didn't just take the V8 harness and leave the V6 ECM in? That check engine light isn't on all of the time so I'm going to guess that the ECM isn't faulty like somebody had posted before.


I've been trying to figure out what gears I have in the rear axle too and I took somebody's advice and lifted one side of the rear and manually spun the tire and counted the number of times the driveshaft spun and now I"m just confused. One full tire rotation made the driveshaft rotate just under 2 times. I'm trying to figure out if the guy who did the engine swap changed out the gears too. If the gears were 2.73 wouldn't the driveshaft spin just under 3 times for one tire rotation?

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Just buy some new gear oil and open the rear axle up. Get a new gasket for it too. Like had been posted earlier it probably has never been replaced.

Firebird Mess85

Will do. Just curious...this is the least of my concerns, lol.

Unfortunatlly it's rained all day so i couldn't get anything done.