iroc stangs

just a quick question i though i'll ask. not made from the cheapest crap you can find but not made with absolutley the best of the best stuff just with good quality products. how much would it be to do this if everything is new. and is headers necessary to make an true dual?

also i forgot to add is an true dual exhaust legal in oregon?

Cflick

You don't *need* headers for true dual. Mine cost around $600 manifolds to tail pipes.
3 inch both sides, no crossover, dual cats, dual mufflers.

iroc stangs

thx did you use high end products or mid quality stuff? do you like the sound of it? do you happen to have a clip of the exhuast. say if i do go true duals will i with the correct products get an nice deep not to loud 60's muscle car sound? can you put super 44's on if you go true duals. sorry about all the questions.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

on my turbo car, my "headers" are about same length as typical shorty headers. I run 3" all the way to the rear with tips.

Using stainless 3" J bends i get for 22 bucks a piece from my friends shop, I have about 220 in piping, 60 in flex pipes, 80 bucks for x pipe, 80 bucks for mufflers (bullets), and 90 for tips. I used V-bands for connections to make it easier to install, and they are about 30 a piece, got 4 of those for 120 all together. Fabbed myself. Not 304 or 309 stainless i dont think.. not sure but its not mild steel. mild is usually cheaper but in this case it may be about the same since i get a decent deal on these SS pipes

So it looks like you can have around 650 or whatever that total is in just y pipe back to rear. Probably more with miscellanous hangers and maybe some extra pipe that i havent accounted for. I think i have 10 J bends total involved from y pipe back but it may be more but not much more.

Its not done yet either, i'm working on the over the axle pipes and muffler setup, then finish weld

Cflick

Mid grade steel stuff. A little loud for my tastes, but not bad.
No clip, but yes, it does sound like an early 70's late 60's muscle engine, but it is !
I don't know what super 44's are ?

iroc stangs

dang i wanna go true duals but its a little much i probaly will wait though and safe up for the correct quality stuff. did you notice an good increse in power? is there much of an diffrence in power with a wanna be true dual but good quality exhuast and a true dual exhuast with quality parts? well good luck on the rest of your car and man i really like how those turbos stick out of your cowl they look like a heavyweight boxers muscle's lol.

iroc stangs

is it annoying loud like **** of the neighbors and they come running out with a shotgun loud? well i guess it would then wouldnt it! super 44's are flowmaster mufflers. with my stock 305 wouldnt the exhuast be a little quiter do to smaller engine size?

Cflick

Oh no. Not even close ! Just has that deep, throaty rumble to it ALL the time.
Not really "loud" it just never stops.

Probably not. Depends on how good the mufflers are. ( or aren't )

Many years ago, ( 30 ? ) I had a set of some kind of mufflers on a dual on a 390 Ford that were perfect. Almost silent at idle and cruise, but romp on it and it bellowed LOUD. You could control it by the way you drove it. What I have now isn't as loud as that was, but not as quiet at idle either.
Don't remember what they were. About 4 feet long and 6 or 8 inches in diameter, stright in and straight out with no offset. Looked a lot like motorcycle mufflers, but much bigger. Long time ago, though.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i think my buddy has super 44's on his true dual hemi ram. Its not super loud but does sound good.

may beable to do it for cheaper, i'm not sure. 2.5" stuff would be cheaper than 3", or atleast it usually is.

I am still building my setup, and hope to compare its sound to my single 4" exhaust i had before. I hope its not too loud with the bullet mufflers but alittle loud is ok for me. My single 4 was really quiet, surprised me since it was way loud with a different motor. Only reason i went with dual 3 is because I wanted more clearance under the car and my single 4" didnt give me alot, just based on how i built it. Also hope the sound is much better, even tho my single 4 sounded pretty good

iroc stangs

ya i like that kinda sleeper like ablility. i would like it to be quite on idle but loud and mean sounding when you hit it. thats what i want for my car to be a sleeper.

iroc stangs

how much cheaper do you got an idea? would there really be a difrence in power with 2.5vs3in? wont it restrict you a bit more? good luck on it though. do you know if true duals are even alowed in oregon? its gotta be legal.

Cflick

Possibly.
This where the real engineering comes into play. The restriction might actually be LESS due to increased velocity of the exhaust gasses in the pipe.
This why my exhaust exits to the sides, with a slight backward angle, so that the air currents from the motion of the vehicle creates a slight vacuum at the exhaust exit !

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No idea on what the laws are in oregon. Most places should allow it if has cats and mufflers and exits beyond the body lines of the car.

How much cheaper? hard to say, need to price out the parts. dual 2.5 is plenty for 500-550hp i'd say.

iroc stangs

ok thats cool it looks like i have side pipes right now because with my driver side tailpipe removed rigtht now it shoots out the side. im actually thinking of just buying a borla system now but do you know what they sound like? or is it just better to buy something cheaper? you know what sound i like that deep american muscle rumble thats still not to loud. im just afraid i dont have the money to legally do a true dual setup. do the borla systems have more power then others?

iroc stangs

ok i think i might just by a system now so i dont go to far into this stuff got any suggestion on that? borla or something else?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Whats the price on the borla's? Arent they expensive? They make fairly pricey mufflers which flow good and are generally quiet unless you run the XR1 race stuff which has minimal sound reduction.

Magnaflow sounds deep and smooth and probably abit cheaper. Duals are nice to have since they generally sound better but its not necessary to make power.

If you can fab yourself since you were considering a dual system, you probably can build a single for less than what those companies charge.

iroc stangs

ya i threw out the borla idea i like the system it looks like its an nice 1 but there about 750bucks! the magnaflow is around 450 so thats a bit better still expensive but better. do single exhuast's still have the muscle car sound to it? the thing is why i kinda wanted to just by an kit is because im not exactly what all turns and such i need and i like the idea of an dual exhaust better then an single but i guess i would be having the single hide underneath. how much cheaper do you think it would be?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Have to use have the piping, half the mufflers/etc so its half as much. If you want to maintain dual outlet tips over the axle, you need a few more pieces of pipe. If you want just 1 tip out the back, say on the drivers side, then you dont need as much pipe. Out the passenger side, you need less pipe.

Depending on the muffler location tho, if you mount it in the stock area, goin out the drivers side is the only possibility. If you use a flow master 44 or something it will sound like a muscle car. Cam/heads/compression will also have effect.

I like the powerstick chambered tubes or the sweet thunder tubes...same thing basically. They sound great in a single 3". They do make the car sound meaner than it actually is haha

iroc stangs

i can i could actually try this for now because i still wanna get ethier a really get exhaust system or make an true dual but if its half the price hell i'll probaly do this. so how much do you think it would be with the super 44 and 1 of the brands of pipes you mentioned? i was thinking of doing a turn down under the car is that stil legal do you know? would i high flow cat be worth buying? so how do i find all the correct piping i need because i dont know where to start with that.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Cflick & Orr89RocZ-
Do either of you happen to have any photos of the installed end-product?
I was thinking of using something like the spintech type of oval pipe//tube when we get the bigblock ready for install.
Cflick--455 GS--Gotta love that muscle car motor!!

Cflick

No, no photos of that. It's just an exhaust !
Yeah, it's a nice mill.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

no pics of my finished exhaust yet really, its started tho

Shorty headers are much better to work with. Bring them around in the stock location like this. Driver side goes under torque converter


Then where the stock cat is, put in an xpipe or H pipe


Then down the tunnel


If you had long tube headers you will need to do something like this which does NOT give good clearance

Go around the crossmember or under it.


Then bring the driver side back through the driveshaft tunnel under the rear of the crossmember/tranny tailshaft


Then run the pipes down the tunnel like my 3rd pic. This is 3" in the above there.. those bottom 2 pics are with longtubes and then merge into a single 4" exhaust but dual 3 can be made from there on out.

Problem is location of a X pipe or H pipe. H pipe can be short and easily added to the pipes going down the tunnel. Most X pipes will be too large to squeeze in there

iroc stangs

ok so i would probaly want shorty headers in the future and maybe go with an H pipe? do i have to go to an exhuast shop so i can get the pipes or can i order them online if so could you find them for me because im still not sure what all angles and stuff i need. sorry not trying to sound greedy im just not sure.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

summit racing, jegs, columbia river mandrel bends, etc, they all sell pipe. Just get the J-bends and cut the angles you need

iroc stangs

ok thx and do i also need an intermediant pipe and tail pipes or is that also what i need the j bends for. sorry i sound like a dumb azz.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i fabbed everything from tips to headers with these J bends. I usually buy 4 at a time and work with that, then go get more as i need them since my buddys shop is 40 min away and i enjoy stopping down when i get the chance. 4 can get you a good ways..probably can make the whole system with 8-10 depending.

iroc stangs

ok so are they just pipes that you buy that are straight? how do you bend them?

Cflick

It all depends on what you are trying to acheive.
For me, I don't give a rat's ^%$# about single or dual, the rumble is nice, but not necessary.
I don't really even care about horsepower. I'm not running 175 MPH through the traps at the drag strip. I'm driving 35-40 in town, and 60-70 freeway.
I care about torque, and milage.
My exhaust was calculated to provide the best evacuation at the exhaust valves very near the torque peak of the engine. That was either a single 4 inch, which mufflers and cats get expensive, and fit, or dual 3's. I went with dual 3's manifold to tips.
I may not have as much horsepower as you in total, but I've probably got twice the torque where I actually use it. Something like 550 foot pounds around 2700 RPM.
What do you want ? What CAN you do with what you've got ? How much bang for the buck ?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its a J-Bend...meaning its curved with 2 straight legs.

iroc stangs

thx i looked yesterday on summit and couldnt fin anything called j-bends. im thinking maybe if i do go with custom exhuast i'll have two tips stickin out the back. maybe i'll just go magnaflow I CANT DECIDE! what wouldnt perform/sound better? how much cheaper do you think the custom would be?

iroc stangs

well i want enough torque so i can run with the big boy's like lt1's and be able to hold on with the win down a good strip of road. but i also want enough horsepower to be able to have fun with it. but top speed isnt my objective im more into acceleration but be able to still win kick azz from a roll. and im not no millionair but i dont wanna go cheap but not to were it will break the bank.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

if you can fab yourself, it'll be easy to do headers and full duals for like $500 or so..

C-Titan

iTrader: (2)

You're going to have to do alot more to that car if you expect to keep up with an LT-1... I have a feeling you're one of those people that expect exhaust and a k&n filter to add goobs hp to your car... When in reality you're maybe looking at a %5 gain, if that...

iroc stangs

no i defintly know just an exhuast wont do that but instead of having stuff making more hp have the stuff make more torque. not just by exhaust by all your performance parts. i know no way in hell a couple little bolt ons will get ya to a lt1.

iroc stangs

ok, im thinking of going back to the idea of just a custom single exhuast. reason? because i have a chance to get 2 free mufflers (if you wanna help go here and vote please http://www.motortopia.com/87IROCCAMARO )
anyhow i would probaly pick the super 44's and i really dont have any other use for it so could someone give me just a estimate on how much a custom single setup might be in 3.0 as i'll eventually be running a 383 lt1.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

So your putting 2 mufflers on a single exhaust? Kinda confused there.

Just buy a 3'' Magnaflow catback exhaust, you'll enjoy the sound compared to your stock 2.5in. You'll notice a huge difference in throttle response and smoothness. Then save your penny's for a good header (Not the edelbrock junk) to put on your 383.

iroc stangs

sorry, i ment i would just put on 1 of the super 44's. i just dont know what to do with the mufflers if i win.

shep236

god, i love working in an exhaust shop lol, i paid 90 bucks for my complete 2 3/4 exhaust sounds sick, helps when you get the muffler discount an jus buy the stick of pipe for cost, hardest part was the over that axle pipe, had to bend it all from memory, cuz it was jus off cat when i bought the car.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Some real good info here for the OP

some people just make me say

shep236

well the whole point of me saying that is instead of paying the sucker price for stuff, just make the right friends...

built91Z28

So we should all go out and meat people to take advantage of them?

Besides, at 99.9% of exhaust shops the bends are crush bent. Not want you want on a good exhaust system. I have over $1000 in my exhaust. Thats not including all the other stuff I had to do to fit true duals. I wouldnt have done it any other way.

shep236

crush bends? lmao, yeah we mandrel bend our stuff so its nice an smooth flow.

iroc stangs

ok, i think im going go with a magnaflow system, unless i can scrap up $100 quick and buy a complete exhuast someone is selling.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Watch the classifieds for a deal. You have time

iroc stangs

well.... im actually going get some custom pipes made since i'll be using an hushpower muffler, can i route the muffler to the right side of the gas tank by the wheel well? the hushpower mufflers are bullit style.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

there's not really any room there.

iroc stangs

Well i test fitted it in that area and it seemed to kinda fit but mainly would i have an problem with it so close to the gas tank?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

why do you want to put it there? what are you trying to accomplish?

iroc stangs

tried it again, it loks like it could work pretty well but its hard to tell.

Im not set on placing it there but the hushpower muffler is an single in/out muffler so im thinking why not lower the price, raise peformance an bit, and just set it to the right side of the gas tank.

Cflick

Just remember, an exhaust doesn't make power !
It merely allows the engine to make the power already in it, or it detracts from it.
If your exhaust can flow everything the engine can dump in it, without putting back pressure at the ex. valves, then you're there !
My engine, below 4500, can pump 800 CFM ( intake ) at full bore.
I calculated the total expansion of the burnt molecules, plus heat expansion, and calculated what comes out the exhaust valves.
Those calculations showed roughly 3x the input CFM, or around 2300 CFM exhaust.
Allowing a flow ( fudge ) velocity factor told me I needed either a single 4 inch, or dual threes.
( the single 4 doesn't flow as much as you think it does )
I went dual threes because I could make it fit easier, and I could get the parts.
Also remember, a gasoline internal combustion engine is only about 50% efficient or so.
If you're making 400 HP out, there's roughly 400 HP in exhaust flow and heat !
Backpressure is calculable up to choke, but it's complicated. So is flow.
For me, ALL of my restriction is in the mufflers, and that's right where I want it.
At 5000 RPM or better my exhaust becomes a detriment. At the 3000 where it normally runs, it's fine.
At torque peak ( about 2700 ) it helps evacuate the system, even with the mufflers. ( flow velocity )
Below that, no exhaust at all wouldn't flow any better.
That's what I wanted, and what I got.
It sounds the way it sounds. That was never a consideration.