Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

After Reading: Notes on Installation of Hooker Long Tube Headers (2210)

"Installation Notes:
1) If the motor and tranny are in the car the headers will slip in from underneath the car. If the motor is out of the car then you will need to lay/tie the headers to the fenderwell as you drop the motor in. The motor will not drop in with the headers attached.
2) You'll need a ministarter or an LT1 starter.
3) I relocated the knock sensor to the driver's side because there is more clearance there.
4) I had to grind on the front driver's side part of the k-member where the a-arm attaches (front corner) to ensure I wouldn't get any rattles there. Very minor clearancing – probably not even necessary but I wanted to be sure. Click HERE to see the minor clearancing.
5) I had to grind on the passenger side of the k-member where the LT was touching. Primary tube #8 was touching the K-Member here. This had to be clearanced for my application. Click HERE to see the problem.
6) The driver's side header demands that you jack the engine up in order to slip the header in from the bottom. You’ll have to remove the oil sending unit and the filter.
7) The passenger side header slips in with no jacking of the motor (starter removed).
8) To install the headers you want to point the collectors STRAIGHT down at the ground and rotate into place.
9) You need to install the starter while installing the passenger header - it’s the only way. I was able to do this by myself but two people would have made it easier.
10) I used Permatex Copper RTV around the slip tube (ala MAFB).
11) You can't run the stock oil cooler with these headers - it needs to be removed or modified. Rick Lindstedt modified his and made it functional (Skweezn87).
12) You have 2 options with regard to the oxygen sensor. If you are getting a Mufflex Y-pipe then you can order it with O2 sensor bungs. Problem solved. If you have a custom Y-pipe or if you want to put it in the header then the oxygen sensor bung should go on the driver's side TOP of the collector - not the side. There’s more clearance on the top. Get it welded in before you get the headers coated. Definitely consider using a heated O2 sensor. Part numbers and info on this can be found by using the search. I’m using a ’92 Corvette ZR1 heated O2 (bosch 13077). Click HERE to see how the O2 sensor is installed.
13) If you are going to run the Mufflex TPI-Y pipe for the hooker 2210’s (Part Number TPI-Y or TPI-Y O2 available from Mufflex Performance) then be prepared that it will most likely not ‘bolt-in’. I have to take the car to a local speed shop to have them chop up and reweld it. The passenger side hit the passenger side frame rail. The driver’s side didn’t hit anything but tucked up way too close to the stock Torque Arm mount.
14) If you are mating a Mufflex Y to a 3" catback then you will need a 4"-to-3" adapter.
15) No matter what - do not expect to bolt-up the mufflex y-pipe to the I-pipe of your catback. You will need to separate your I-pipe from the converter (or from the bend that goes to the manifold y-pipe if you don't have a converter). You'll then need to either shorten or lengthen your I-pipe to the correct length to mate to the mufflex y-pipe. If you are using the 4"-to-3" adapter then you can expect to expand the entry into your I-pipe so that the y-pipe 4"-to-3" adapter can fit into it. My personal experience shows that a flowmaster force II catback for a dual cat car requires an extra section of 3" pipe since the Mufflex y-pipe is about a foot away from that system's I-pipe (because the after-cat special flowmaster y-pipe from this system is no longer used).
16) Consider Installing some ES poly engine mounts or new engine mounts before taking on this project. The last thing you want is to get everything installed and then replace your motor mounts at a later date and realize there are interference problems. It's easier to deal with these interference problems during the install. NOTE that my installation of the ES Poly engine mounts may have been why I had to do a little bit of extra clearancing. But, this only a possible explanation - it has not been proven.
17) I pulled all the wiring that wrapped around the bottom of the driver's side oil pan and reworked it - not necessary but this will ensure you don't toast any of the wires on the long tubes.
18) The 2210’s have great clearance with L98 angle plugs (my experience) and regular angle plugs (Rick Lindstedt's experience) when using 90 degree spark plug boots. Straight plugs will have a clearance problem with plug #7 (Phil87IROC's experience). To fix the problem with the #7 plug Phil made a shorty plug. To see Phil's pictures click HERE.
19) Be careful when running the positive battery cable to the starter. The passenger primary tubes tuck up pretty close. I used the stock bracket that bolts to the block to secure the cables and ordered some Fire Sleeve from Summit to ensure the wires are protected.
20) I used a Lokar engine dipstick (ED5001). Very expensive but works great for this application. With the LTs there is nowhere to mount the dipstick.

David Tuschoff also has a nice Hooker Long Tube installation with some great pics from underneath the car. He had a custom stainless Y-Pipe fabricated. His website is:
http://exit3.i-55.com/~davidlt/exhaust.htm"


I assumed it would be the same for installing: 68460.

Here is my problem: They will bolt on but the problem is I have stock Straight Angle plugged heads and Long tube headers I have actually cover the spark plugs and I will not be able to get them out to change them or to put spark plug wires on them. How did you get around that?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Have you tried short plugs ?

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

No I am new at this where can i get them?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Summit racing as well as other performance parts shops. accel makes them

ROCrow71

I have those exact headers on my 91. I'm using the longer plugs and 10mm wire set with no issues. Tunedperformanc is right on with the shorter header plugs. Will give much more clearance. Be sure and watch the plug wire route tho. They will destroy your wires if they get close to the headers.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Harbor freight thru-socket set. 29.99, usually on sale for 19.99. Perfect for spark plugs. I can do all mine in 5 minutes from above thanks to that one socket and wrench. Regular plugs and 90 degree boots.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

My mechanic is insisting the pipes of the long tubes will block my spark plugs.

So there is no confusion: This is for a 1991 Chevy camaro Z28. With the factory 350 L98 motor with the "cast iron straight plug design", NOT Angled plugs design.

He does not think it will run right with shorty plugs for one and for two, to get a ratchet in there to remove the plugs and change them would be almost impossible after the headers are installed.

I bought these long tube headers from a guy here that listed them as part number: 68460.

That are the steps to install these and what clearance will I have with the spark plugs. I see you guys claim to have no problems but I don't know what kind of year, engine, or heads you guys have. Please HELP! I do not want to have to waste money getting shorty's.

Apeiron

Time to find a real mechanic... although really, longtubes are the waste of money on a street car.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Seriously guys, I have known this mechanic for a long while. He completely restores vehicles. I am needing real answers. He also mentions that i would have to alter a lot. like an oil cooler to keep the oil cool from the long tube heat. and a smaller started this is probable more money then I wanted to invest. Please Thank you.

Apeiron

That may be the problem. There's a huge difference between restoring a car back to the way it was originally and modifying one with aftermarket parts. If you're going to start doing that, you must start expecting the unexpected in your projects.

You don't need an oil cooler. You don't need a new starter if yours is the original one. Of course you can't use a ratchet to remove the plugs, that's why there are wrenches. Accel makes "short" plugs, but they're the same length as the "standard" plugs from a few other manufacturers.

You could get a list of all the details from everyone, but in the end your experience will still be slightly different for any number of reasons. Pretty much everything you've asked so far is available by searching.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Thank you very much for the incite. I am not sure why you guys are so into promoting searches. If you someone link me that's pressed for time looking for a quick response So I can get my car on the road today, I find that it help's out better to ask questions.

Using a wrench to replace spark plugs is too time consuming, a waste of time, how I see it. Not to mention the melting wires cause the header sits right there. As a neub to this learning from experience. I will go the shorty way and the mini ram till I do the LS motor swap.

THANK YOU very much for the incite to help with my final decision.

Apeiron

There's a number of reasons, depending on the individual.

Some people resent the implication that your time is more valuable than theirs when you expect them to type out readily-available answers while they have their own cars to get on the road and lives to conduct.

Some might hope that in reading the returned results you'll learn the answers to questions you didn't even know to ask yet and save yourself time and the trouble of asking down the road.

Some are probably just tired of answering the same questions that have been asked every week for the past 10 years.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Your mechanic is an idiot. How does anyone run long tube headers on these cars if the spark plugs are literally impossible to get to? Sounds like this guy just doesnt want to deal with it and is trying to get you to do something else.






There are a few good reasons not to go with long tubes. Not being able to get to spark plugs is one of the most asinine I've ever heard.

ROCrow71

Infernal I want that short plug socket. Would make changing mine a lot easier. Where you get it?

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

I took a regular spark plug socket and cut it down. I use a 13/16 wrench on the socket.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

How do you even cut it down with out stripping or damaging it?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

google:

21 Piece SAE/Metric Go-Thru Socket Set

It is from Harbor freight

$29.99, but on sale (as usual) for $19.99 right now.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Guess he has never installed headers on a small block chevy before


This is pretty standard issue stuff here.

Shorty plugs, sorter socket, etc... all standard issue stuff when dealing with sbcs and headers.

No need for an oil cooler just because of headers.

A smaller starter is not required but is a good idea anyway. The Smaller starters are a lot lighter and work better.

There are probably hundreds of third gens out there with those headers. Its not as big of a deal as your mechanic is making it out too be.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

So, did you get them installed?

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Nah, I just went with shorties. I also had piping leading out the rear of the front tires by the fenders with no Cats or mufflers. Is great.

The long tubes ended up hitting the frame on the passenger side. Same with the shorties. but the shorties needed very little modding to the frame. The car is sounding nice like thunder a bit. Anyway it was pointless to go with LT's since I plan on doing a motor sway to LS later and will get headers for that. Thank you all.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

This is the reason I keep mentioning LT's are not worth the trouble and money for the amount of power which is about 3-5hp over Dyno Don's Headers.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

LT's make more torque lower in the RPM ranges before peak torque. More power under the curve. If primaries are the same size peak power should be nearly the same, but LT's get you more low end torque without sacrificing horsepower. In nearly every other area, to get more low end torque means having to sacrifice power.

These headers are very cheap, and if you have a way to build a custom crossmember and can fabricate your own exhaust system, they can be a VERY affordable way to get a top notch exhaust on your car without having to spend even half of what quality shorties + catbacks can cost.

If you daily drive a mostly stock car with duals under the stock crossmember, long tubes are nowhere near worth it.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Duals are good for a race car. Not for a mild street car. From what we saw on the Dyno, it was only 3-5 HP from start to finish over Dyno Don's headers. But hey! To each is own.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Here is another option for spark plug removal on our cars with headers. I use them and they work great! Craftsman max access ratchet set.

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-1...1&blockType=G1

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Thats really awesome. pretty much exactly how that harbor freight set i have works. The harbor freight wrench has a curve to it thats actually perfect for getting around the header flange, and that thing is straight, so I'm not positive it will work as well, but it probably will.

I will say doing a clutch job, I couldnt find a single nut or bolt that the harbor freight wrench/sockets were good for the WHOLE job due to that same curved handle. It doesnt fit in many places...

But for spark plugs it's perfect. The time it saves me for that is so worth it. That craftsman set looks like it's going to be a lot more useful in a general sense.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Yea i keep them in my daily driver as a tool set. They work out awesome and fit in places normal ratchets cant. They worked great at doing my plugs but then again i have angle plug heads. I dont see why they wouldnt work for straight plug too. They might put the handle too close to the valve cover for comfort but would still be manageable.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Yeah but you would have to fork out the same amount of money just building a custom crossmember and fabricating your own exhaust system. Unless you do this stuff yourself. My problem is I have a long term mechanic working on mine. So it was more like whats cheaper labor.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Thank you so much man even with shorties these will make it easier.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

If you're paying someone else to fabricate, cheap long tubes dont make sense. Period.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Your absolutely Right. Shorties are suiting me just fine. Thank you all. Hopefully anyone else putting headers on can have this thread to read and see there is a lot of time and money involved.