ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

--Warning, ideas and opinions expressed thoroughly, don't read if you're against that --

Well as most of you know, you can buy replacement ABS headliners for our cars. The problem is, they don't fit great, and they aren't cheap (most notably the T-top headliners)

However, after working with fiberglass for a while (for fabrication, not repairing rust holes) I have realized that it is a very workable substance, and quite strong.


-------Warning, Long post---------
--Shortened version:
--Cast headliner mold, Cast fiberglass headliner, now read last
--two paragraphs
-------Warning, Long post---------


Now of course you can't just pour a gallon of fiberglass in your car and hope it turns into a headliner. One must make a mold of an original headliner. This could be completed by stripping the cloth off an original headliner (still intact) and using packing tape to cover the outside of the headliner material. This will make a nice slippery surface. Then coating the tape with Vaseline or similar and forming a mold a type of molding material. Of course it's easier said than done. Some questions arise, like what kind of mold making material to use.

Plaster of Paris;
Plaster of paris would work very well. It's quite strong, and it's soft enough to sand any imperfections out, compared to something like concrete. The downside is that it's fairly heavy. Also, while it is strong, it's weight will fight back on it; If it was dropped and landed unevenly, it would crack in the same manner as a sheet of drywall being dropped from a height.

Now, how about a wood frame with plaster cast on top of it. The wood would keep it at a lighter weight, and it would not crack as easily if it were dropped. It could be made from 1x1s and 1/4" plywood, with a plastic sheet inlay to keep the plaster where you want it.

Once the plaster is poured in, the prepared headliner could be layed on top. Then, with even weight distribution (the key here!), press down into the plaster. Even weight distribution is the utmost importance on something like this. If you just push down on one area, the headliner will simply bend, and be misshapen. Also, without even weight distribution, it poses a threat of cracking the headliner. A good way to watch for distribution, would be wooden dowels taped across the inside of the headliner. If one side bends, the dowel would show it. Don't allow spill over of the plaster onto the headliner. It will make removal a lot harder. You want to have an intact headliner in case the mold takes a second try, and to compare the fabricated headliner to it.

Once the mold is dry, remove the headliner, fill any bubbles in the surface with bondo or similar, and sand smooth. Then, use packing tape to once again create a slipper, easily cleaned surface inside the mold.

At this point, it would be wise to refrigerate your fiberglass resin. The catalyst will act much slower when cold. For something this size, you want it to react slowly.

Grease up the molding surface with a very thin layer of a water based lubricant (KY jelly). The reason is because of chemistry. Solvents in fiberglass resin are non-polar, while water is, thus they wont mix. Vaseline is petroleum based, so it is non-polar and can be dissolved in the fiberglass (can, but it's not a promise )

Cut strips of fiberglass cloth to the same width (but does not have to be the same length) of the headliner mold. Mix up a large amount of your refrigerated resin with a very small amount of catalyst. Quickly apply to all impression ed surfaces in the mold. Add your strips and press down, then add the rest of your fiberglass mix into the mold and distribute it. We don't have enough time to saturate each strip, so we have to do that in situ. Press the strips in the resin so that it becomes saturated with it. Hopefully you used just enough to make the layer around the outside, and not have a pool in the center. We're shooting for headliner type thickness here. Let it harden then check the thickness. Do a second layer if needed (hopefully will be, for added strength), but stay within the ball park of the original headliners thickness.

Remove, sand smooth, and cut all holes. Finish with your color cloth. If you succeeded, you will have a headliner that will not be deteriorated by leaking t-tops, or rain water. The fiberglass section should last very long, while the cloth can easily be replaced as needed. And best of all, it fits!.

I plan to do this within the next couple of months when I finally put my car back together. What are your guys opinions. Give it to me straight, after all, it is just an idea so far.

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

I think you made it seem much more complicated then it is... Although i have only worked with fiberglass ONCE, That ONE time was while I made the TTop headliner in my car... While I admit, it didnt come out perfect nor was it fast to complete I was very pleased with the end result. All I did, was take a cheap Ttop headliner and strip the cloth from it. Then I covered it in fiberglass and let it sit. Yes, it was slightly more bulky then stock but it worked great and people complimented me all the time about it. I was even considering doing it over and sanding it and painting it to make it look nice, but i wasnt sure how good it would look over fabric so i stuck to fabric.
Only regret I had was selling it with my old car. I should have taken it out but i didnt.
Goodluck

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

really you just use the resin on the old headliner with the cloth foam removed. add fiber glass on the back side if you need to fix areas like near the seat belt holes. and install the new cloth. should take a couple hours of time maybe more if the foam fights you

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

But with my method, it would come out in exact dimensions, and could be done to easily mass produce them. Thats the whole reason behind the mold. My intentions weren't just for my own headliner. I wouldn't consider going through all this trouble for one. Sorry I failed to mention that. If it was a success and the headliners came out perfect, I could sell them at a very cheap price (ex: $30-40 not including shipping.) Half the price of a hawks roughly (after shipping, while they don't factor it in yet), fits better, and all you have to do is cover it with your choice of cloth/foam and cut your own holes. No guarantee on that price if it does succeed. I have to see how involved it is first hand, and the cost of the final product.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Well I would certainly be interested if it were nice enough to just paint and install without covering it.

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

Well if I ever get around to doing this, I could definitely sand one down very smooth and prime it for ya. The reason I wouldn't do coverings or paint it is because I would perfer you got the exact color you wanted instead of me giving you what I think your interior looks like. But don't get too excited, this is somewhat farther down the road.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

not a problem, just let us know when you feel like doing this. In a month, a year no big deal.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

From a production and sales standpoint, the problem with your idea is that you're going to have a very large item to ship. The shipping costs will be insane. Plus when you add the amount of time you'll have to spend mixing the 'glass, laying it, waiting for it to cure, then trimming it and covering it with headliner material, unless you do this strictly for the fun of it, your time invested will far exceed any reasonable amount of money that you'll be able to charge. Once you factor those two things in, the ABS style that comes folded in half will seem like a bargain.

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

Yeah you're right about the shipping. I havn't thought a way around that yet. Maybe ship it in halves that mount together strong enough. I wouldn't cover it myself. I just make the headliner and sand it down. Maybe even 100 (which includes shipping, if it's not astronomical). Which would still be cheaper than a hawks ABS headliner that isn't an exact match. Obviously my target market isn't everyone. It's more of the do-it yourselfer market, also extending to the perfectionist/stock **** market. I work at McDonalds, I'm used to getting underpaid for the work I do
And look at it this way. If I make 50 bucks off each and sell two, I'm now 100 bucks ahead and I made it without donating anything and while doing something I like doing. I'm sure it would become tedious if I had to make 10 or 20 of them but I'm not expecting this product to be a great seller haha. I'm not doing it for the sales or the money I guess is what I'm saying.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

When making the mold, you might be better off laying the headliner upside down in the box. So the exposed surface is pointing up. Then secure it, and use some clay around the edges to prevent casting material from going under it. Then build your sides, seal up the "box", and pour in your plaster or whatever you want to use. Then just flip it over and strip it out of the top. Shouldnt have any deflection of shape at that point, and you reduce the risk of getting air pockets from trying to "stamp" the mold. As an engineer for a precast concrete company, stamping usually lends itself to dimples and worm holes...while pouring down over something reduces that quite a bit.

Just an idea....

Justin

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't an exposed fiberglass cover rattle quite a bit in the car?? With fabric its OK but without, man I am thinking that it will rattle your brains sensless. Not sure though, just a heads up.