82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

Alright guys... its been a long while since I've gone on this site. Here is the update, i totally stripped down my 4th gen camaro. The 4th gen is a 1994 Z28 with a T-56... The 3rd Gen is a 1982 Trans am with the LU5 with the 200c. I am taking everything I can and reusing all that I potentially can. This includes the Engine, Transmission, Differential, even the interior center console, the steering column, brakes and booster. I understand nothing will align up from on gen to the next. Hence why i am switching over the firewall w/ floor pans from the 4th gen are going into the 3rd gen. I must mention I am just turning 21 in a couple days so experience is not exactly in my resume. I have all the tools i to take apart the cars, just not a welder. If anyone has done this before please any information will help. I may have forgotten a few things if any questions or concerns please ask.

Thanks,
Justin

Ace

iTrader: (2)

I did this back in 98. The column is the same but the end shaft just needs to be swapped. Booster is the same. Use 3rd gen lines.

Use the firewall if you want to put in a 4th gen air box. Otherwise do as others have either combining a 3rd and 4th gen air box engine side and then on the interior side just modding to fit the 4th gen dash. I tried the door panels but fit like *** and left the third gen.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I don't see how you plan on doing much more than swap a few superficial parts w/o a welder...

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

You don't say? Well thats why I said something... I want to make sure I get the right welder for the job so I'm not blowing through the floor pans. I've welded back in HS with a Oxy/Ace torch, briefly used the mig/tig. The other guy is starting to work for a welding company so he can help me out and we will have plenty of scrap to practice with. Wont happen over night maybe in the next year or two. Doing my research since i was 18 and still doing some so every move I make I can utilize my resources.

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

Well luckily for me im only swapping the center console and carpet. The 3rd gen dash Ill reuse despite the effortless times Ill be replacing this dashboard... door panels I have figured out just all the mechanical and module end of this build I will need the most help with. It'll be a car I drive less than 5k a year putting classic plates on just want the bear min for this to turn over for the time being. Sensors out the @$$ on the 4th gen that the 3rd gen lacks.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Was a guy and I forget where I saw it, but he was grafting a complete 4th gen front on a 3rd gen so he could use suspension and all.

Even your weakest welder can blow through any part on a 3rd gen, very thin metal everywhere.

I bought a licoln wedpac 100 for 200 bucks and it can do anything on a car. Look on craigslist for a cheap welder but try and get a gas shielding one.

LX_SS

^^^^ this is the most factual statement here, 3rd gen body metal is very thin and varies extremely depending on areas. Most factory sheetmetal can be measured between 1-1.4mm, the sheet metal i used to fab was 1.85mm.
(i'm in the metric system). The welder i used for most of my fab was a Migomag 215a on a 240v power source with argoshield gas, i most certainly never ever used the settings on flat chat except for when i was welding the new firewall to my A-pillar plates, anything less wouldn't have got enough penetration.
Most of the tunnel, firewall on the engine bay/interior side was welded somewhere in the 120-150amp range. Keep in mind this is very different from your normal welding techniques, if you use a hot setting, basically good peno solid tacks is what it looks like, this way you can alot of the heat at the new metal, whilst getting full peno on the parent metal. Once you've done this, you can careful weld the underside properly, technically its not needed because you can see full peno thru the metal. You will notice that it is easier to get that spot type welding technique down, that if you require welding on the same area because you've built up the material you can actually perform decent welds. Otherwise do most welds that you can as vertical down welds, it does the same effect by pushing the hot weld metal into the parent weld/metal giving less chance of blowing a hole due to the thicker metal area. If that all makes sense.

Anyway this is not 4th gen firewall/console etc... its newer pontiac gto, but the principle is the same and a good example of what can be involved, depending on what your achieving. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...ls1-third.html

This is in fact for if you wish to change the firewall and entire dash etc...

Its generally easier to modify what you have, as opposed to redoing it all, as many many things chain off each other depending all on your firewall.

I imagine from a fab point here, things like brake booster and such, are easier just to modify areas of need cause it shouldn't require too much being very very similar already.

However with 3rd gens you can simply mount in the 4th gen dash and add some extra mounts, this is far far easier than replacing a firewall if you want to achieve the same effect.

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

Thanks I'll have to look into it. I was wondering if there was a way to do this seeing how the 4th gen setup seems more practical in parts and seeing how I see a lot more parts being available for them. Being the fact that I have an early bird I rarely see anything aftermarket made for this 3rd gen car.

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

A lot of useful information here, thank you. To be honest I have no understanding what any of that means but by reading it I can piece together what you are talking about. A little bit of time and effort and I think I'll be able to decipher the inscription. I was unaware that the metal on the 3rd gen was significantly thinner than that of the 4ths. I was planning on modifying the frame setup to accommodate the exhaust design flaw being that I have to custom make or use the resources from the sites that are available. With all this time already put into this long term project I think I might as well do this the right way first. So with that said... should I just reinforce the existing metal, or just cut and re-weld a thinker piece onto the car? Also being that I am going to race this car, not for profession but for sport, what areas of the car are thin? I want the car strong yet light enough that I'm not adding a few extra hundred pounds just to make up for the fact that there are "weak" points on the car. The floor pans on the 3rd gen are rusted through near the firewall, due to the lack of exhaust shields. Also this way I wont have to deal with the hassle of trying to clean the hell out of these floor pans trying to repaint/reseal/reuse.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

This is a basic LT1/T56 swap done frequently. All of those parts are basically bolt in or use an off the shelf bracket. Id skip the LT1 brakes and move up to some LS1 brakes if you're upgrading

I absolutely would not advise any firewall/floorpan swapping for that simple of a swap, doubled because almost all of it is a direct bolt in

LX_SS

^^^^ As said most parts should just bolt in or require a bracket. My point with the firewall is that its a extreme amount of work, especially if you are unsure of what your limits are.

Can you take some snaps of the rusted floor areas your concerned with, maybe we can advise different options.

If you have areas on your 3rd gen that cause issues, i.e. flexing or stressing and its causing issues, then you can replace or add metal to repair the flaw.

You will want to invest you time into your chassis. Lots of factors come into play however, is it a hardtop, gm t-top or a converted C&C t-top, cause they are all different to each other and all have an effect on the strength of the car.

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

OK then I'll just use what I need off of the camaro and scrap or use it for something else. What are your thoughts on the front suspension swap? worth my time or not at all?

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

The rust honestly isnt bad at all I have most of it patched up with fiberglass mesh and por-15. I just really dont feel like cleaning out this tub bucket.. there is that black glue like material alllll over the place and sanding bits/wire wheel just isnt cutting it. Id sooner torch the **** off that deal with that bs, but I suppose I'm not getting out of this one lol. The 3rd gen is factory T-Top, I was planning on swapping to a hard top to eliminate flex to the roof unless there is a possible way just as good if not better design for me to keep them. I absolutely love the T-Tops but I'm not willing to sacrifice years of work to end up with a twisted chassis. Let me know.

As far a pictures........ I'll try to find some, I used to have hundreds of pictures. I just dont know what happened to them and getting to the car isnt a simple matter since I have two bays. One for all mechanical work, one for storage so to speak till I get my work space in such a way I wont have to rearrange it literally for like the twentieth time in the span of two years. Very difficult with an oversize tube and 2ft of room to move on either side of the car.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Front suspension swap is out. 3rd vs 4th totally different. Rear is bolt in

Weld in a quality set of SFCs to fix the chassis flex. No need to remove the t-top roof

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Screw a 4th gen suspension. If you can strengthen your existing frame rails drop a C4 88-96 corvette front suspension in. I have seen guys do it on hot rods, old mustangs.

The saying is true, if it has frame rails you can drop a c4 vette front suspension in.

Buy the cradle and aside from the upper shock mounts once this is welded in place it holds rack and pinion, front mono-spring, all a-arms. would be a giant leap ahead of any f-body suspension swapping you could do.

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

Awsome I was unsure if that would be enough thanks.

82crossfire305

iTrader: (2)

Nice, Ill look into this thoroughly. I imagine I would have to do fab work but along with swapping over a totally different suspension, how would i get it to work properly? How do i make sure that everything I will be doing will be sufficient? Basically, how do i get everything straight and true and bolted in to work as it would in the donor car so to speak?