FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

I bought another 3rdgen, so I built another set of sub-frame connectors. These are much less elaborate then the ones I built previously and where most noted on the boards. I however plan to do a full write up in the near future, illustrating the build process, dimensions, materials, cost, time and will also include tips. I feel that there are a lot of do it yourselfers in the thirdgen community and by posting a sorta "tutorial" i hope to inspire others.

Eric-86sc

iTrader: (18)

Subscribed for on car pictures. Seeing home made connectors like these makes me want to get going on building a set for my firebird, they look easy enough to make even though your welds are amazing and would put mine to shame

flash2042

FueledSoul,

I loved your last set. Very well done. These look good, too. I'm looking forward to seeing your tutorial. I'm a fan of making my own parts vs just buying and bolting stuff on, so this has definitely peaked my interest!

I have two questions, though:
1. Is this as far as you plan on going into this set or are you planning on going full frame like the last one?
2. Did you see any benefit from going full frame vs SFC on your last set?

3GZJerry

iTrader: (2)

Very nice..

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Why did you simplify them? Ease of construction? Time? Or no added benefit from the more complex construction? What size/gauge are the tubes? If you have a pic of the first set could you post for a side by side comparison? Nice welding too.

redneckjoe

very nice!

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Yes, This is it for this set, the car they went on is just stock nothing special.

Yes, I seen HUGE improvement in my full frame set I built Vs this set.

The car is stock, I just wanted to keep them simple and basic and add some rigidity to the structure. This set doesn't even come close to stiffness or the improvements as the full frame set.

I used 2" x 2" 12ga square steel tubing.

Here is the one of the other sets i built

Nighthawkf-117

iTrader: (1)

I would be very interested in seeing a set of plans for these. You wouldn't happen to have a set of plans for the full frame connectors would you?

jchaussee

I loved your other set!

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

No, at the time of building I never thought of taking dimentions, however I feel that doing a tutorial like I plan would be good enough that one could build a set of inner sub frames on there own. The only tricky part I could see for some people would be making the tubes to tie the inner and outers together because of the diffrent angles of the inner and outs in relation to the floor pans.

lyrikz74

Pretty awesome build. Still wish you would let people know how to do the oval exhaust.

rdway

FueledSoul

Your work always amazes me, awesome job on both sets of sub-frame connectors!

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

VERY nice job FueledSoul. I am subing because your work is great. My car is 100% torn appart and I plan on building SFC like your blue ones since I removed my 6 point roll cage.

Are those welds MIGed? I only have a flux core mig, in your opinion should I not use this for making final welds on SFC? I was thinking I could tack it all into place and then take them off and bring them to a pro. Do you think this is a good idea?

Anyways, just looking for some input from someone who clearly knows how to tackle stuff like this. Thanks for any advice. Don't want to hijack.

Back on topic.... Look forward to the tutorial!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

do both use 2x2 12ga box stock? How heavy are they?

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

Very very nice work...... Subscribed !!!

51F1

definitely want to know the dimensions! i wanted to make my own since i got my car

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Thanks! I used a MIG to weld these, you could weld them with flux core but I personal prefer using a shielding gas its better and cleaner. The sub frames are not like a lower control arm or a peace that could leave you stranded if the welds break etc. If you wanted to you could tack them and take them into a place to have them fully welded, but keep in mind there shop rate, i cant recall but after i tacked these up it took around a hour to fully weld up.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Yes.

cheesehomer

iTrader: (2)

Very nice work......I was wondering why you didn't connect the brace to the rear lower control arm , like the UMI frame connectors, that would link the front sub to the rear ?..


Subscribed !

PAFORM350

Definitely some welding skills my friend

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

They are. They are welded to the part where the lower control arms bolt up to. You don't need to bolt them in place, in fact that type of bolt in bracket will allow the length of the sub frame to flex off that bracket if its not welded in. It is more or less just for ease of installation, bolt it in swing it up weld them in place, adds slightly more rigidity to where the lower control arm bolts up to. Since I'm on the topic of flex, every aftermarket (outer) sub-frame should incorporate the side rocker pinch. I have tested this out several times on several different cars going to point A to point B (front to rear sub) is not enough regardless of maternal thickness, size or shape. The length of the tube is still able to flex from point A to B. To minimize the flex and to maximize the effectiveness of the sub frame connecters you need to incorporate the side rocker pinch by welding it on to the side of the sub frame connectors tubes. It doesnt have to be welded down the entire pinch just around a 3" weld every 6" (roughly 5 to 6, 3" welds down the entire rocker pinch) depending on brand etc you might have to put peaces of metal in between the rocker pinch and sub frame connecters if the pinch is to far away. You can seriously see this for your self if you are currently running after market sub frames connecters with out the pinch welded, jack one corner of the car up watch it flex see the sub frame connectors twist.

ferret lady

Hey the blue sub-frame connectors look very nice. Do maybe have a picture of them on the car? Thanks

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

subd

rdway

Awesome work FueledSoul, have followed you for years always amazing me with your talent!

propaintball96

you should definitely sell these. Got any pics of them installed on the car?

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Here are my blue ones:

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Nighthawkf-117

iTrader: (1)

Are you still planning on doing a write up of how to make build the basic sub-frame connectors?

ferret lady

I would of thought you would of welded them on the car. Look to me you made it a lot stronger. I wish I had a set for my 85 IROC.

Bigben93

any chance you ever drew up the plans for these? i see you used 2x2 box but what was the lenths?

cosmick

As one of the guys who is able to design and built my own, both inners and outers, then interconnect them, I feel anyone competent to build their own won't need a tutorial, and anyone who needs a tutorial really shouldn't be trying this.

Bigben93

need not question peoples competence. Simply asking for a measurement layout. figuring somebody may have made a couple sets they may actually have the measurements laying around.

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

Indeed, I'd love to build a set if the price is cheap enough for material versus buying a set, and measurements would be amazing, trial and error can be expensive lol.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

It greatly speeds the process If I have a shopping list, an approximate length(s) to cut the tubes and know what angles he used.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

From the pictures you should be able to figure out approximate lengths needed since you know what the overall length is. Most people who are making things like this are making them one off and are not looking to write down measurements and angles down since it doesnt really matter except what works on the car.

Just get under there and start measuring

rb85TA

Well if fuelled soul is selling them, then I could see not giving that information out. .. But, if he isn't & is going to write a tutorial on how to build these, then I'd say, subscribe to the thread & wait for the answers.
FueledSoul, really nice work on both sets!
I hope to be able to start on my build soon, it's going to have some custom surgery on the under side as well. I'll see if I can get some pictures while I'm doing it.

91ls1t56

Ditto. And yes, Fueled soul those look great !

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

Subscribed!!!

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

So to the people saying he shouldn't post measurements at all, does this mean you think no one should ever make a writeup for anything again? Kinda like if someone figures out a good fix for repairing something common he should be like "look what I fixed, if you wanna know how I did it that means your to dumb to fix anything yourself"? Everyone starts somewhere with learning how to do things. It would be nice to have measurements to see how much the material would cost versus buying some pre made.

I'm all for making stuff, but if it's gonna cost the same or close to it in material as just buying a set the same design already made then I'm not gonna spend the time making them versus spending the time fixing or replacing something else that needs doing.

I work 6 days a week. That leaves roughly 3-4 days a month for whatever I wanna do. That includes 6 acres of yard work a week, spending time with my wife, working on all my other project vehicles, or whatever leisure activity I may want to do. It's nice to know if the cost justifies the time.

So remember, going by your logic, next time you see someone do something you have never done, don't ask them how they did it. That just means your not smart enough to figure it out yourself!

It's all high and mighty when you know how to do something but don't forget you weren't born knowing. Plus he already said he intended to make a writeup in the first post I believe.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

No one builds SFC's for thirdgens like this, you're going to have to do it yourself.

It would behoove you to spend 10 minutes under your car with a tape measure and write some stuff down.

Just by looking at these pictures and going out to my car I bet I could come up with a material list in that short time. If you have the skills to cut the material and weld it together you have the time and ability to figure it out, this isn't rocket surgery, this is loose tolerance backyard fab. Your car is going to be different than the OP's anyway and you're going to have to fab it all on your car. So go out, jack up the car, get under there, bring a tape, pad and writing instrument.

I am pretty sure I asked this poster a simple question in another thread and he flat out told me he wouldn't tell me how he did it. I could be wrong that it was someone else though. **Edit, yeah it WAS this guy. He came up with a way to make dies to form oval tubing**


I am telling people to go figure it out because it is unlikely that he will ever tell any of you. I am not trying to dissuade the OP FROM telling you.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

He went around and around to say how DIDN'T make the oval tubing.

Now that it is 3 years later I think I figured it out in my head how he did it

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

m.summitracing.com/parts/bmr-sfc009r


Good enough for a daily driver, sure his are nicer, but if the material cost reaches close to $100 then it's worth my time to pick these up and have them already made. The tiny amount of time a week I can work on my cars this would take prolly more then a month to measure, make, and install. So no I do not have the time. If I could save 150 or more sure I can make the time. But if I'm only gonna be saving like 20-30 bucks then no, it's not worth my time. If the amount I'm saving is less than what I make an hour at work then it's not cost prohibitive to waste my time making them. It's not just a matter of skill. Little tips and tricks are nice to know as well.

He did state in his very first post that he was going to post a writeup with tips, measurements, materials, and pics, but every one bombarding him with telling him no I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't bother doing it now.

Heaven forbid someone teaches someone something. Forgive me if I got the wrong idea, but I was under the impression that sharing knowledge was the exact point of a forum of people all owning the same car. Not just a bunch of guys saying look my car is better than yours.

rb85TA

^^X2^^

91ls1t56

[QUOTE=scooter;5954488]

It would behoove you to spend 10 minutes under your car with a tape measure and write some stuff down.

Just by looking at these pictures and going out to my car I bet I could come up with a material list in that short time. If you have the skills to cut the material and weld it together you have the time and ability to figure it out, this isn't rocket surgery, this is loose tolerance backyard fab. Your car is going to be different than the OP's anyway and you're going to have to fab it all on your car. So go out, jack up the car, get under there, bring a tape, pad and writing instrument.


That advice is better than any set of measurements. I really do not think anybody is going to order material to the inch anyway. While you are under your car you may think ooh I'll do it like this instead and then his measurements are not going to help at that point.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

If it was feasible to just give dimensions and go, well I don't see a big difference either way. The fact is that those that are likely to build these won't really need detailed dimensions and will know that it won't really do them much good, to replicate them you'd either have to do it on the car or on a dedicated fixture. I don't think it would hurt sales either way.

I could guarantee that he could give exact dimensions for every piece he cut and you still couldn't put them together without crawling under your car and measuring/holding them up, and if you're likely to be able to do that and make something that doesn't look like hammered **** you have enough info to make a copy of these from the pics.|

This is not like posting a circuit or how to modify a part... that is totally different.

rb85TA

91ls1t56, I don't know why you are so bent about this. ... it really does NOT matter!
OP, has said in the very first post....that he was thinking of doing a step by step tutorial!
YES, YOU ARE RIGHT! ANYONE THAT IS GOING TO TRY AND REPLICATE HIS DESIGN OR MODIFY IT.... WILL HAVE TO GET UNDER THERE OWN CAR!
The point is, that some people, feel better about doing things like this, after seeing EXACTLY how someone else did or does it....that is why tutorial's exist!
If YOU don't need or want to see the tutorial, I believe that is your option & it's dually noted that. .. you're against the notion all together!
If we could get back on topic from here on out... that would be nice.
Thanks, Sincerely Rick

91ls1t56

Wow man, I do apologise. I do not want to be a **** by any means. I am 100% for building your own stuff for whatever reason weather it is saving money or not being able to find what you want from a vendor or even if it is just cuz ya wanna. I truly do want to help with good advice and fully believe it all starts with a tape measure and an imagination. I quoted other posts because I do agree with them and by no means am I trying to influence anybody into keeping all of their knowledge a big secret. The OP did an awesome job with both sets and even made and explained his design changes. He also mentioned quite a difference in performance between the two designs. To Fueledsoul again outstanding job on both sets and the write up was just as informative as one could expect.

rb85TA

No problem, just seemed like there's to much emotion involved & that often blinds those involved, as well as sidelining the topic.
We few that TRULY love our car's ( or anything else in this life), get wound up ( including myself ), when someone wants to argue about them.
So, I understand LOL!
If FueledSoul wouldn't mind, I have a couple of questions that relate to your design & could easily ( I think ), complement what I am doing with my car.

rb85TA

I'm a truck driver, I spend 4-12 weeks away from home & only 2days to a week at home. I do not have the equipment / tools necessary to do this myself ( as much as I wish that I could ), & it's simply cheaper to pay someone else to do it for me.
But, I get what i pay for...
I am putting my car in a chassis shop, to have the rear frame rails moved inward 1"(this will allow me to run a rim with a 6.5" back spacing safely, so I get to have the 20x13" rims & 345/30/20's with the load spread evenly across the tires ). I will also have to "flare" the quarter panels, ( but, that too fits my plans ), the chassis shop will also be relocating all of the suspension mounting points on the rear axle housing, as well as putting a fully "integrated"road race inspired cage in the car. I'm cutting the rear seat buckets / bowls & building an elevated shelf where the rear seat is located & widening trans tunnel to clear a tucked exhaust system.
I'm thinking that if I were to tie in the inner & outer subframes ( similar to your design, blue ones), that would also tie into the same points as the exhaust mod's I'm doing. I will be using a BMR extreme torque arm with the weld in cross member along with UMI ROTO JOINT LCA's & a Fays2 watts link (it to will be shortened to fit new mounting points ).
Any suggestions to help make this happen will be appreciated.
Of course the chassis shop is familiar with road racing & is more than competent, ( & may end up doing all of this), but the more I do myself. .. the cheaper it'll be. Thanks Rick