ur7x

iTrader: (2)

Can someone explain the risk of posting VINs..

In some of the other forums I belong to (Cadillac and Oldsmobile) this is a common occurrence and happens all of the time... Both my Caddy and 442's VINs are in the public domain... I bought my newer Caddy from an online dealer and my "collectible" 442 was listed on eBay and Craig's list a couple of times before I bought it privately.

VINs are all over the Internet (on eBay, Autotrader etc) Are easy to find at car shows, parking lots, wrecking yards, etc

Snopes basically calls all of this VIN fear an Urban Myth...
http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/vin.asp

At least my Z28's VIN is still private... I think...

Should I be nervous? This is the only forum that I belong to that has this warning.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I think of it like any other private information such as your social security number or credit card number. The less of it online, the safer you are. I block out license plate numbers before I post pictures online, too.

ur7x

iTrader: (2)

Ya the plate part I understand... I used to work in the auto insurance industry and they can and will open an insurance claim against you with only a plate number... If this happens, you then get a nice visit from your local police asking to take a look see if there is any damage on your car... if there is, even a scratch, in the right "area" of the car, you can find yourself dealing with business end of a very aggressive insurance company.

Of course plates are way more public then VINs but posting them only exposes the chance of insurance fraud to more wackos who might try an take a shot... Thats why almost everyone photoshops or "whites-out" the plates in online photos... That makes perfect sense.

But the VINs are a little different... I've also worked in the IT department at a "DMV" And it is next to impossible to create, hijack or duplicate a VIN. Most states/provinces (all of them?) have a VIN and a Registration number... The two go together and unless you know both you can not transfer title from one person to another.

So it would be crazy to post a VIN AND a Registration number... This could result in an fraudulent vehicle transfer but even then you need to know the current owners full name, address. etc. Most DMV's are very **** when it comes to vehicle transfers... Everything has to be perfect or the transfer will not occur.

But the VIN by itself is a public number and I don't know of any risk in posing it. If there was, you can bet there would be VIN fraud horror stories from eBay, Craig's list, etc. etc.

ad356

i thought there was more risk with the vin number than the plate. plate numbers are readily displayed on the front and rear of the car and easily seen from a distance. vin numbers can only be seen up close and even then you need to know where to look.

hgffrank

Honestly I dont think it makes a damn bit of difference if its posted. A person can go online and find out the first 10 digits of a VIN for ANY car. Only the last 6 numbers are identifying to the particular car. So for technical purposes, a person only needs to post the first 10 digits because the last six have nothing to do with anything other than the production number. And even with that, what could a person do.

The only thing I could even imagine which would make posting a COMPLETE VIN dangerous was if someone was looking for a car to steel and had access to Title and registration records which could possibly tell them where to find the car.

However if thats the case then someone could just as easily walk up to your car at a car show and write down your VIN and do the exact same thing. Only way to prevent that would be to stick something over the VIN plate. But in reality, in all the many car show's I've been to, never once have I seen anyone cover their VIN plate. Hell many actually display it openly with paperwork in the trunck or in a display near the car. If this was a legitimate risk, I'm sure every intelligent car owner would cover their VIN plates.

So I call it a myth. However if for any reason you dont feel comfortable posting a VIN, then just dont post the last 6 digits and no way could anyone do anything with it. All they would have is the first 10 digits of the VIN which could belong to 10's of thousands of the same car.

And as for the license plate numbers, I view that as about the same situation as the VIN number, the only thing it could be useful for is to locate the registered owners address. But even then the person would have to get access to the dmv database, which I have always been curious about and searched the net for a way many times but with no luck. I always wished I could access it just so I could hunt down the idiots who do retarded crap on the road, so I could hand out a thourough beat down. There is always that one idiot that does something or runs their mouth and you just wish you knew where they lived.....lol

I know there are many sites that claim to give access to all that information "for a fee" but I personally think those sites are all bs, and useless.

hgffrank

seems to me that if a person cared enough about your car to want the VIN number, I'd be quite sure they also know where its at. Especially since its located in the same spot on about every vehicle made.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

Better not go to walmart or on ebay.
VIN's and plates displayed openly all over the place....


unfounded hysteria

ur7x

iTrader: (2)

My experience with CarFax and some of the others is that they are useless... Great idea in principle, but in practice not enough bodyshops, dealerships, and DMV's participate... Don't waste money on a Carfax, take the car to a trusted body man and find out the truth...

If the fear of VIN posing (that only seems to exist on this site BTW) was to avoid someone creating or turning there car into something rare... The Don't post VINs advice won't stop that either.

All VINs since 1981 have a check digit... Unfortunately the formula for the check digit is public and easily calculated... All you need to know is the first 10 digits of a special car and then make up the "ordinal" part... Calculate the check digit and you have a "good" vin.

Older VINs are even easier to hack since prior to 1972 GM didn't even put the engine code into the VIN... The VIN is the weakest evidence that a car is real.

Now you have the challenge of getting your local DMV to add the new VIN to your paperwork... My experience with DMV's is that they don't just add VINs to their database without a ton of paperwork and inspections to back it up.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Don't make yourself a victim by making it easy for some crook !! Let them cause any harm by chance rather than handing them the opportunity !!!

I had to go to state court once for parking tickets accumulated in the city over a period of 4 months. The problem was that someone else with my EXACT LICENSE PLATE was getting the tickets and not me. I pointed out to the judge that the tickets were written out against an import car while I owned a Camaro. ( I even had evidence that I was working when the tickets were issued ) The judge dropped the case in 2 seconds without ever showing him proof that I was working at the time. He said "I know what this is" and without explanation he said "dismissed".

Point: crooks will find you and cause problems; don't make it easy for them !

Iroctopless

That's a pretty wild coincidence regarding the plates.

Back to the VIN issue. Have the VIN displayed does not make things "easy" for crooks. As mentioned by many above, just the VIN by itself doesn't serve any purpose. It needs to be linked to a whole series of matching qualifiers which then becomes complicated. It's not to say this type of fraud isn't impossible (and it has happened, usually to higher end cars destined for overseas customers), but some perspective needs to be maintaned here with regards to the elaborate logistics.

hgffrank

Sorry but I find this very hard to accept as truth. Most states have a tags system where every plate has a tag that match's registration. Even if the plate were copied, regardless of the difficulty of doing so. the chances of the plate AND tag being fabbed seems quite improbable. And to make things even more strange. Any cop writing a ticket for a parking ticket would have ran the plate to get the owners information at which time they would also get vehicle information. No cop would write a parking ticket for a car that doesnt match the plate or registration tag. That car would immediately be towed under the assumption the car was stolen or the plates/tags were stolen. No way would a ticket, just be left like that.

Just go ahead and ask how I know??

coldblooded

the reason i was told not to post vins on another forum was for theft reasons, more towards higher value cars than mine, but ive been told its possible to track a car down by its vin, making it easier for a thief to target a certain kind of car, idk how true this is or not but its what i was told one another site.
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not to doubt you but is that also true for the "meter cops" the ones ive seen around here have nothing more on them than a normal police outfit and belt and a ticket book, we have like 3 or 4 of them here because of the university students parking where they feel like.

hgffrank

You may have a point there. I guess I cant say for sure about the bigger cities, but anywhere around here everything is ran first.

Even so, the feasability of actaully fabricating a plate AND tag that look legit seems fairly dumb. I'd steal the plate off another car before I went through all that trouble. A person would have to do ALOT of work to accomplish the same thing they could get by simply unscrewing 2 bolts. Either way, the plate wouldnt match the car and the first time it was ran through the system shnit would go down.

okfoz

Not to make criminals...

It is POSSIBLE in some states where a car has not been registerd to literally take a VIN written on a paper napkin go to a DMV and apply for a "lost title" THere are many more things that have to go on which I will not go into (again to keep us all from being criminals here). With that "lost title" you go to another state and transfer the title, and now you have a Clean title. From there you can take out a lein on the car, OR you can duplicate the car from your title. This is especially popular on rare cars as you can take out larger loans, or the car is worth more... MOST cases the fraudlent car is exported to another country, the biggest problem is when the car comes back then there are 2. as long as they are not in the same state chances are good that the 2 owners will never know.

When a lein has been placed on your car you have to pay the lein off BEFORE you can sell the car, or the bank takes your car... nice eh.

This is a WHOLE lot easier if your car has not been licensed within 5 years because after 5 years most states the registration falls off thier records. In short ALWAYS keep your car registered, OR get a historical plate OR an authentic plate like they have in MI, there are some extra security issues that come with those plates which are a big plus especially if you do not drive your car all the time or plan no not putting plates on it for a while.

In short, its probably not a great idea, there is probably not a HUGE risk but enough of one... so I ask that we don't... I have been trying to get rid of some that I find...

John