Jason E

I'm going to have my TA looked at by a reputable body shop on Thursday, to give me an estimate to respray the whole car. Last month, I could've sold it for $4,000 to a co-worker (have about $3,800 in it as it sits, with PHS documentation). I'm beginning to think, maybe I should've?

After my 91 RS snowballed, I swore I would never restore another third gen...money-wise, it just isn't worth it IMO compared to buying a clean original. I have as much money tied up in my 91 RS as I do in my 21k mile 88 IROC 350...sad to think. Both cars are pristine, but the IROC is worth AT LEAST twice as much...sad to say.

So, take the $4,000 I could've gotten for my TA. Add $3,000 roughly for a paint job...$1,000 for reman GTA wheels and tires...$250 for a re-wrapped leather wheel...$100 for a reman cassette deck...$200 for an A/C compressor...$500 for misc odd and ends like a hood insulator, drivers PL motor etc...

I now have $9,000 in a 31k mile, great driving peanut-cammed hardtop LB9 Trans Am. Last time I was on Auto Trader, $9,000 could get me a 45k mile 88 GTA LB9/AT t-top car. I like this car a lot because mechanically its perfect, there is no rust underneath, I love the color scheme (blue with silver gfx, black and grey cloth inside), and I even like the fact its a hardtop because its so quiet and tight. I also like the fact its 100% stock, and intend to leave it that way (after considering some tasteful bolt ons, the money spent isn't worth modding such an original car). At the same point, I look at cars like that GTA, or my own IROC, and feel that it isn't the best use of $9k in the third gen world.

I never plan to sell it, so maybe it doesn't matter what I have tied up in it...and I should just shut up and enjoy it?? I said I'd never sell my RS, either...which is how I ended up with 13k or so in it with mods...and plan to sell it when my dad gets rid of his 8k mile '00 SS in a year or two.

Thanks for listening to my rambling...thoughts are appreciated.

okfoz

Just an FYI, I had $2500 in just paint the last time I painted a car... I did all the work... of course I think it turned out better in many ways than a pro would do because they would take shortcuts that I did not.

A word to the wise. Unless you can do all the work yourself, a car is never a good investment. Honestly I would do what you want to the car, I think the values of the third Gen is increasing, especially lower miles nice cars.

John

torque_is_good

whoaa

$2500 just in the cost of paint and supplies??????

I gather you didn't just sand, fill in any major bangs and respray? You also didn't use $100 paint

what did you do? My hunch is it's a show car

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Yea that seems mighty expensive for just the painting alone. I'm having a few small dents filled, paint, and wet sand/buff for around $3000, and the guy is damn good at what he does.

As far as your car, I think it's worth it honestly. It's such a low mileage and nice car that I'm sure it will be worth money down the road. Plus, yea T-tops are nice but not everyone likes them, and I'm pretty sure theres probably more T-top birds than hardtops. I plan on keeping mine forever and I have about $6k into the suspension ALONE right now. You'll never get the money back, but it's totally worth it to me since I know I'll have a one of a kind 3rd gen when I'm finished.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Good paint is expensive... But you'll appreciate the car more with fresh paint. It's up to you to determine if you can justify it. If you have the money, why not?

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

Unless you have Turbo T/A, SLP Firehawk or a super low mileage car 3rd gens do not command any value in the collector car market. Go on e-bay and watch the auctions..3rd gens are currently not worth a whole lot.

okfoz

Obviously not $100 paint...

The car is more or less a "Show Car" however I used Sherwin Williams Paints, which is more expensive than PPG or Dupont, but I think SHerwin's Clear is far superior... The results are stunning If you ask me, the car is still not "Perfect" however I have won my class in 2008 & 2010 at the trans am nationals, and since it is a national show I think that kind of speaks for itself. There were some nice cars in my class both years and I think it could have gone to one of the other cars just as easily. I simply put the time into making everything as clean and as close to perfect as I humanly could.

I count the masking paper, weatherstrip glue, tape, sanding paper, paint, primer, sealer and anything else that I used. Just those supplies alone I have about $100 to $200 into, if not more.


John

okfoz

Actually by the numbers there was 288,452 or 44.61% of all Birds had T-tops ( I do not have the production figures for T-tops installed on Firebirds for 1983 and 1985 for but for the rest of the years that's the proportion.

its 572,635 or 37.73% for all 1982- 1992 Camaros had T-tops.

By no means are T-tops rare...

John

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Huh, thats funny. Thanks for the percentage. By me, I honestly NEVER see hardtop birds...especially trans ams. Maybe it's just that back then, the trans ams were a higher model so they just generally came equipped with t-tops since they knew people would want the option on a TA. We have had 2 hardtop camaros in our posession at one point or another (my 2 brothers), but never a hardtop bird out of the 5 or 6 3rd gens we've owned.

Jason E

whitedevil,

I've been following your project...I don't think we live very far apart! Not sure where in CT you are but I'm only 10 minutes north of Springfield MA. Anyway, indeed one thing I like about the car is no t-tops. It almost feels like a "luxury" third gen, as my wife put it. I've always loved the Pontiac corduroy seats, the ride is very smooth as its a non-WS6 15" wheeled car, and there's no cacophony of rattles like my IROC and RS. I thought I would keep the RS forever, and despite putting a clear nose cover on it at a local shop today ($400, but worth it after I got FIFTEEN chips in my nose on the highway going through a construction zone one afternoon...couldn't be avoided), I believe it'll be sold at some point in the next 4-5 years. Maybe by then, the economy will be better and I won't take as much of a hit. But this project made me sensitive to cost/worth propositions when it comes to restoring these cars. The Trans Am is a VERY light project compared to the RS.

Drew,
Fresh paint will indeed make the car pop. I wish I could save mine, but I can't. The years it spent outside caused the hood, roof, trunklid and tops of rear fenders to peel...and I'm sure the sides are faded enough where I can't simply blend the paint in and have it match. I'm hoping to be around $3,500 for a paint job, but I doubt it...as I want the gfx and bumpers removed and sprayed seperately, and I need them to paint under the doors as well where there's surface rust. Plus, considering I want to keep the two tone with the silver lower, that's extra cost and labor as well.

I drove it to work yesterday to get a sticker put on it, and had a blast. It goes down the road like brand new, save for the fact the torque converter does not lock for whatever reason. My uncle replaced the fluid and changed the lockup switch, with no change. Oh well...

Thanks for the responses...I do plan to keep it, because its so mechanically sound and is something you don't see every day. A stock repaint will make it a unique car...I see GTAs often, but regular TAs are getting rarer it seems.

okfoz

I want to think that out of my 9 3rd gens I have owned
4 were T-tops (still own 3)
4 were Hard tops (still own 3)
1 is a convertible.

John

Jason E

I myself have owned 5 third gens (3 Camaros, 2 Firebirds), and only this Trans Am has been a hardtop. If it was the ONLY third gen I owned? I'd definitely prefer t-tops. But I have to say, owning a hardtop one has been a revelation! I almost chose to buy a 25th RS in green/gold over this car because it had t-tops...but chose this one for the low miles and TPI.

If my IROC had been a hardtop, I would not have bought it. My dream third gen has always been a t-top 350...which that one is.

BlueMagicSS

It's completely up to you what you do with the car. You'll never get your money back out the car, especially if you don't do the work yourself.

Jason E

You say that, but that's the internal debate I'm having. I've decided to forego adding the GTA wheels, and it has nice Comp TAs on it...so that will save me about $1000. So, at $8k, would I even be backwards at all? As the economy improves, I see these beginning to rise in value further, as well. I think a clean TPI TA with 30s for miles would be a good candidate to be worth some money.

That's the whole point of this thread, though...to get different opinions on the matter. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

GTA50

The twist I can throw into the perspective is that it's all about the journey, not the destination. At the end of the day, to sit back and look at the car and say "I did it" to me is worth more than any potential resale.

When I assembled (a major build) and installed the motor on my '89 Firebird and had it start up first time......still gives me thrills. I even drive with the windows down and radio off (after two years) just to hear the exhaust. Sell it, yeah (with 450,000 km)......for about $1.50 and a cup of coffee at Tim Hortons or Starbucks.

On the other hand, any car project I come across, I've learned alot and had much fun along the way.

Long post, but again, think about the journey, not the destination.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Didn't even notice you were in MA! Yea I'm actually about 10 minutes south of springfield so we're pretty close. The hardtop does make a huge difference in the amount of squeks and rattles the car makes, but I'm hoping my subframe connectors will get rid of that since mine is a T top car. Not to mention you never have to worry about leaks with a hardtop! And I would love to get one of those clear bra's put on when mine has fresh paint on it because I do a lot of highway driving on weekends to a local hang out spot, and I would cringe at the first rock chip on my fresh paint.

Jason E

Feel free to PM me...I can give you details about a good experience I just had Thursday with Protection Plus in East Longmeadow...they just put a clear bra on my '91. One thing I've found with repaints is that they do NOT hold up to stone chips anywhere near as well as OEM paint.

Case in point: Just had the RS's front end repainted in July due to an issue at the shop it was at. Paint work was flawless. I took it for a 750 mile road trip to coastal ME and back last month. On a highway in Worcester, going through a construction zone I got pelted with loose tar and/or rocks. I had FIFTEEN stone chips in a fresh nose after that.

I touched them up and put a clear bra on it Thursday. No idea how well it will hold up, but these guys did a great job hiding the seam lines (bra is one piece except for the headlamp pockets...those are 1 piece each). Its kinda like when tint is freshly applied...it needs to dry, and its a little hazy in a couple spots at the moment.

BUT...its a whole lot better than the alternative! When I repaint the TA, I will put one on it as well. It won't go anywhere near the miles as the RS (TA will go 1k a year, RS 4-5k on average), but you never know...

BlueMagicSS

IMO it's not about whether I'm in over my head or not, in the end it won't really matter if I love the car.

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. I'm plenty willing to go deep five-figures into my 150k mile RS when funds allow, and I won't regret a dime of it.

True, it doesn't hurt to consider financial ramifications, but if financial considerations are that big of a concern, a third gen is not the car to be building; you either build it because you love it and know you will never get the value out of it, or you don't build it. If you want to build a car with value in mind, you'd need to get something 1972 or earlier to have a chance at getting a large chunk of your money back.

Personally I think it's best to have a car that you built and spent a good chunk of money on but that is a driver (like your RS, flawless but you don't feel bad driving it, which is also what mine will be since she's a 150k car), and have another completely original unmolested low mileage car with factory paint.

Jason E

I'm fortunate to have that situation...the RS, and the IROC for the mint original. The TA will be somewhere in the middle...a mint OEM type car with 1 repaint and some touch up here and there.

I have love for the car...I just keep thinking about what that 8-9k could buy me. One thing that looking at cars online never reveals though is what those other cars might need. I know what my TA needs...mechanically, aside from an AC compressor and an ECM (random SES lights, but runs mint), its 100%. Its so much fun to drive, and drives so tight, its hard sometimes to take the RS and not the TA for a ride because the TA drives so nice.

Red90IROC

My $00.02: Fix up that TA and enjoy it. It's clear you love the car. It's a striking, awesome, bold color and there's nothing else quite like it on the road today. Are you going to "get your investment back" on it? Doubtful, if measured in dollars and cents. But likely, if measured in silly grins while driving it around