dragracer2068

Hey whats up guys, I havent posted on here since my car was a daily driven street car that I was driving to high school, it was pretty cool back then with a 454, turbo 400 and a 9" rear but I have since made the engine a 468 13 to 1 compression 708 708 lift roller camshaft, Aluminum Dart Pro 1 Heads, Lemons Headers stepped 2 1/4" to 2 3/8" with a 4" collector, Vaccum pump, Powerglide tranny with transbrake, kept the 9" just changed to 4.11 gears, Spohn Torque arm and lca's. Stripped the leather tan interior and went with two Kirkey racing seats and black interior. The car ran its best of a 10.64 @127mph with a 1.54 60" time on the mickey thompson 10.5" slicks. That was before i added the new comp cams 4-7 firing order swap camshaft the dart pro 1 heads the lemon headers and the vacuum pump, im expecting mid to high 9"s with all the new goodies. I included alot of pics and a sound clip of it running with a few quick revs. Let me know what you think
Hear it run

dragracer2068

another pic

dragracer2068

another pic

dragracer2068

The car

dragracer2068

interior

dragracer2068

Rear shot

dragracer2068

Engine

dragracer2068

side

onefast85

good lookin car man.3rd gens with bbc's look bad *** for sure.

Rogue86

Car looks good!

Those true 10.5's or 10.5W's?

Might make a good limited 10.5 car

AlkyIROC

Looks expensive

Who's fabricated rocker covers are those?
Running C12 for fuel or C14?

I doubt you'll see any gains with the 4/7 swap cam if it's the same grind as the one before.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Lookin good, only problem I see is the box. Boxes are for sissy's and old men

Curious what the 4/7 swap does if anything, dyno rooms have showed little to no gain and this may be hard to judge since you changed some other things besides the cam. Let us know when you get some slips.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

Awesome car!!!

itsjustabird

iTrader: (1)

i like it. id like to go big block with my next motor. maybe a 565. everytime i see a big block 3rd gen it makes me want one, they just look like theyre supposed to be there. anyways enough rambling, i like the car looks good man especially the motor. keep us posted on times once you get it right you should spray it.

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

Nice car...I think my next motor might be a big block.

AlkyIROC

My new Dart Big M block arrived today for my 540. It's a bare block so I need to finish honing it, install all the plugs and frost plugs before I can even think of starting assembly.

Big blocks are great. It's so much easier to make hp with cubic inches. Theoretically, my new 540 will make the same amount of power as my old 469 did because I'm using so much of the old parts (cam, heads, etc). The big difference is that it makes the same power at a lower rpm. Instead of 7000 - 8500 as the top of the power curve, it's now 6000 - 7500

According to DD2000

6000 - 825 hp
6500 - 842
7000 - 839
7500 - 835

Moving the rpm range down that much makes a lot more power down in the low rpms. I can't compare the torque because the stroke is increased with a 540.

DD200 says 773 at 5000 and I launch at 4500.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Take a "typical" $4000 budget for a motor and the sbc will run around the pig block...get alot more bang for the buck upgraded parts wise with the sbc, once you get into the $5K and higher then the tables start to turn.

Nothing against pig blocks, but for them to be "truley impressive" you have to have some coin sunk into them.

onefast85

takes to much to make a smallblock run with a well built bb and it becomes undependable at the 650hp mark,my pig block makes 950+ on motor.3900lbs and 9.80's on motor.shifting at 6400 and crossing at 5800 at 140mph.

so no punk blocks..i mean small blocks for me.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

$4k budget/650hp same thing easily attainable with the punk block and realiable, pig block wont get there for that budget, unless in the hands of a very talented builder that can do 90% of the work himself.

Go faster cheaper with a sbc

Go really fast with a bbc when your budget gets really big

Your stepping into mountain motor territory with 596cid so I know your budget is a lil bigger than most, but you've also got the added weight also at 3900lbs?? and need those cubes to help move that land yaht, your heavier than a stock 70' chevelle with a BBC in it.

All fun, gotta stick up fer the lil engine that could.

dragracer2068

Hey, the valve covers are moroso's If i remember correctly they were like $300. I run the 110 octane cause i really didnt notice a difference with the 112.

NOSFEDGTA

unreliable ???? at 650 ??? my small block makes about 900hp or so. its only a 406ci. my best pass to date while spinning is a 6.05@118.67 in the 1/8th whcih is like 9.30's in the 1/4 it runs 10.50's on motor with a nitrous cam, nitorus converter which is only a 3800stall , nitorus tune, and only a 3.70 gear out back....

the same motor in my friends car with an all motor cam, trans brake, 5000 stall, and 3.70 gears runs 10.15-10.18 @133

can a big block make gobs of power and torque ?? yes htey can, can a small block? yes they can. my next one will be a 434 with more of a motor cam and run in the 9's on motor.

on a side note my friends scotts car goes 9.20's on motor with a small block...but it only weghs 2700lbs....

IHI

iTrader: (1)

There's a ton of N/A sbc's running in the 9's, it takes the right combination for sure to get it there and a speacial kind of car to put that power to the ground.

On a "budget build" though the BBC will get walked given the same budget, 5 of my closest buddies all BBC powered, are a testiment to that since the closest one to me is .3 slower and has the same amount of money in the motor and 300lbs lighter car, not only that, really how "impressive" is it to have a pig block running high 11's anyways, that should be standard ET's for that much cubic inch. Now run low 11's high 10's all day on pump gas that gets street driven ALOT with the 800watt stereo system pound'n...now that's impressive all a shot of juice, in the 9's all day through the mufflers and will be just as reliable.

Overall, combination is really key, if sheeot dont work together ur screwed, kinda why stock class cars just boogie-combination is tweaked to the max.

AlkyIROC

There's a 434 SBC powered altered here that runs 7's at over 160+ mph. Of course it also only weighs 1800 pounds and runs 2 dominators.

There's also a blown alcohol SBC Comp eliminator altered here that runs mid to low 6's at just over 200 mph

91rs5.0

Awesome car. Just curious since you used to drive it every day... What's the gas mileage like with a big block in a 3rd gen?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Politely stepping in cuz this is funny.

I burn exactly 1 gallon per 1/4 pass, that includes the warming up, burnout, pass, and back to pits. Every 5 passes I fill it back to the brim with my 5 gallon jug to keep the wieght the same.

I drove my car one day with the attention to solely be how effeicent it was. Typical around town then down the interstate until it was on E, or darn close. Filled it up and it came to 2mpg my brother was recently in an accident and his car was totalled so've been trying to sell him the bird, after he asked how good it was for gas milage he laughed and said it make him a nice lawn orrnament since he could'nt afford to drive it to his buddies houses LOL!!

91rs5.0

Wow. That sucks. Doesn't your car have a small block?

dragracer2068

The word gas mileage and big block dont mix, you dont usually say the two in the same sentence, lol. When i drove it around town I got about 6 miles to the gallon, its kind of hard to keep your foot out of it. Everybody at highschool had brand new cars and I would smoke every one of them, for example a 2003 audi tt, 2003 honda s 2000, many many mustangs, and all the ****. There might have been more expensive cars at my school but I showed em the thirdgen was the way to go. Back then it used to run 12.70's with street tires with a/c , powersteering, power windows (which it still has) and tipping the scales at 3800 pounds the car alone.

91rs5.0

you need a big block to beat a tittie and an s2000?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

yeah, but its a nasty lil pump gazz small block

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

Do they have Limted Street up in Iowa? We have it down in Ga, Have to run 4.90-5.0's to be competitive.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

We have brackets, period.

Once in awhile they'll have some special event, but other than that, nothing.

slow86305

nice car man. I think i saw you running at moroso a while back. i was going to come by and say whats up but you were never by your car

sixpackmtrspts

nice setup. the 4/7 swap smoothes out the crankshaft pulses im told. i know a few stock eliminator guys that were running 4/7 swap cams for years before most people heard of them, now most stockers and super stockers have them.


got any pics of your fuel cell mounting? im curious how it fit were you have it, since im still debating about using a vertical cell or cutting the floor and sinking a 5 gallon in there.

dragracer2068

i have a 5 gallon cell in the car, I think it was a square and it mounted right in the middle with all thread, i'll take pictures but i have to borrow the cam from my friend i'll do it as soon as possible. It is all aluminum, I bought it from Jegs

onefast85

mine ran 5.70's at 125 with the 540 on the juice,with the new 598 it was to much for the tires so i stuck the motor in my 68 camaro.at 3400lbs it runs 5.90's(9.30's 146 1/4mile) on the motor and 5.30's(8.30's 1/4) on a single stage plate.

you make 900 on the juice i assume...my 598 is around 1300hp...but this new fogger should put me around 1600hp.

onefast85

apparently you buddies need some advice.i was running faster than yours with a oval port 427 with a solid lift cam .i guess around here cars are alittle faster than in your area..there are a bunch of 8 and 9 sec cars rolling around in east texas.the 598 was in my 85 for a few weeks and it went 9.80's at 140 on motor crossing at 6200rpm and it has 2 amps and 2 12inch subs in the back.but to each his own... and the big block will always be more appealing to the eye.LOL

IHI

iTrader: (1)

I'm not gonna kid anybody, one day I'll have a fat pig under the hood, but until I can build it my way, it's not gonna happen. Too many guys get in a hurry to get it running, I want the total package so I'm done once as I hate working on this POS!!

Yes, all the BBC combo's in our "group" as mismatched combinations, the typical get big parts and it "should go fast", but those of us in the know, know that aint so!!! But that's it's own lil thread. I know there's alot faster cars out there on da pump gazz, but round here there is'nt much running N/A that actually drive their sheeot and are that fast, eveybody's bottle fed which in my eyes is fine. Just knowing I can run these times in street form AND hook this thing on the street is what keeps me happy. Took my sub box out for a pass Sat., dropped a .1

Bad part, if you just wanna go fast, pig blocks are great in a small tire car. But trying to shoe polish race with one and stock suspension and expect to win is a little fat fetched, big motors need big tires period.

Prime example, on my 3rd set of slicks this year already (shipping tomorrow) and this 2nd set only lasted a month....big tires last a loong time even when going rounds in a big motored car. but point was more motor, you need to beef up everything behind it if you expect anything out of it, so motor might be done on a budget, but with the weight bais, a person really has to plan the chasis well to make it work and work right-otherwise what's the point??

Rogue86

Yep, at the local 1/8 mile we have an outlaw race every month. Limited usually runs in the 5.0 range. Bob Curran (blue BBC/Nitrous Grand Sport Vette) is a regular competitor. For those of you who dont know, he's a two time world champ in limited 10.5.

IHI will prolly think i'm nuts, but drag radial class will probably be in my future in the next 3 years. Don't worry, I'll keep a set of slicks to bracket race on the regular weekends

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Not nuts, you have the experience and have a clue about what's needed at the track to be competative, so you'll do what you need to do if when the situations change. Most kids on here dont/wont then ask goofy questions....it's kinda like "heeere's your sign"

Ya gotta do something different to mix it up, I like racing, but am getting bored with it. Same thing everyweekend, going to race a different track next year hopeing that helps liven things up, new people, cars, etc...and hopefully a better run program.

NOSFEDGTA

nice times!!! but how much do you have it int ? im sure if I had as much in my small block I would run with ya

1300hp ?, its more realistic at about 975-1050. if you do the math formula right it only takes that to make a 3400lb car go 9.30's which is what my car runs on the juice....... so I guess I have a little more than 900.

now to go 8.30s in a 3400 its going to take about 1400-1500 so you were close on that one

here is some food for though. my friend scotts car goes 9.20's on motor witha 434 small block. on a 250 shot it goes 8.50's his 60ft's ar in the high 1.20's not to bad for a little small block

onefast85

the 85 at 3900 went a best 8.95 at 154.takes 1110hp at the wheels to that...do you not understand that all cars lose hp through the driveline?punch the numbers in anywhere and you will see that i am right.mph is what shows you the true hp.this was with a 540 and 2 plates

68 has been162 at 3400 takes 1128hp at the wheels to that.with a 598 and 1 plate

yours makes around 835 at the wheels.

NOSFEDGTA

"3400lbs it runs 5.90's(9.30's 146 1/4mile) on the motor and 5.30's (8.30's 1/4) on a single stage plate."


quoting from you

and yes I understand drivetrain loss. I sell my own line of torque converters so I know all about it..... my car only dynos in the 600 hp area, but runs low 9's so ya I understand all the loss and so on. im no newb at this...........

my friends car dynos 702, but yet runs 8.90's at 151....

dollar for dollar a sbc will run with a bbc to a certain point. when you start getting mid 8's and faster you cant beat the cubes with nitorus., if you were going to use a turbo then you would get away with the smaller cubes....... take some of the nmra guys. the turbo guys are making appr 1800-2000hp with their turbo setups , while the nos guys are only making around 1300-1500 with roughly the same cube motors..... they do get a small weight break however..


also if you took a 598ci motor with nos and a 450ci motor with a turbo. the turbo motor will make more power...... but this all together is a whole diff discussion...

onefast85

but is that 600hp without nos...if so then my figures with you spraying are right...hp at the wheels is what its all about,no inflated numbers when its weight and mph you are using to see what you are making.a dyno doesn't mean much..i don't race on a dyno.

at the wheels hp is what wins races..but thats just my opinion.

NOSFEDGTA

no it made about 650 while spraying. I was just showing you that I understand loss and such. we both no that you cant race a dyno. with big converters and 9in rears you cant get a a true reading on a dyno. also we both know that 650 isint going to get it done to run low 9's

Motor City Mike

Nice looking car, dragracer2068 - welcome to the big block club. Amongst the big block vs. small block debate, I'm amazed that no one noticed the fuel lines coming up through the floor in your first pic. While it's a nice idea with the factory style tank, you should cover those lines with steel or aluminum sheet to isolate them from the interior - I'm actually surprised you passed tech with them that way. Same goes for the relocated battery (I see the heavy gauge cable to the right), unless you already have it in a box. Other than that, it looks great.

Keep us posted on your performance progress.

onefast85

depends on what it weighs if it will run that fast.LOL.

dragracer2068

Hey Mike, from the pic you cant tell but I have the battery in a Moroso Sealed battery box and its an Optima Battery so technically I dont think you even need a sealed box but I have it just incase. Also The fuel lines in the pic are just overflows to outside the car, there isnt fuel running through them, I have number 12 fuel line running from the bottom of the tank to the fuel pump number 10 to the regulator, and 8 from the regulator to the bowls. As for tech never had a problem, they actually gave me an extended tech in which is good for a year just so you dont do any changes to the car.