TPI-Formula350-

So how many guys have applyed so far?
TTA850
TPI-Formula350-
GTAMatt
87TPI350KID
anyone else??

Has anyone heard back from Scott@GMHTP yet?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

im going to send my info in in a day or so soon as i can get some better pics of the car,though my turbo install isnt complete yet.but it should be this weekend or next weekend

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

I sent in my pictures, etc. I asked Scott for a fax number so i could fax him copies of my timeslips because i couldn't get a picture of them and he sent back a message saying the pictures and info i sent him should be enough.

TPI-Formula350-

anyone hear anything new about this shootout??

Scott@GMHTP

Lo-tec: Rebuilt motors are acceptible, but stock compression and style pistons must be maintained, which means the car must either have stock replacement pistons or comporable aftermarket pistons. Motors which came with hypereutectic aluminum pistons can not have forged pistons.

87TPI350KID: Any stall converter is acceptible...so long as you are still running a 700R4.

five7kid/mw66nova: The rules for intake manifolds are designed to eliminate custom fabricated setups, such as those which encompass either a carb style intake and/or multiple throttle bodies. Any stock sytle intake manifold such as Accel or Holley's TPI manifolds are perfectly acceptible as are SLP intake runners, etc. This shootout is for EFI Fbodies only, so it goes without saying that carbs are not allowed. Anyone with Crossfire injection is welcome, however, as is TBI or TPI.

If anyone has any other questions about the rules, please let me know personally and I would be happy to clarify.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well, you need to say that. you need to have all the rules written out and posted up before you say a word about inviting ANYONE.

new title: GMHTP Stock/Modified Fuel Injected F-body Shootout With Emphasis On LS1 Cars And People With Stupid Amounts Of Money. carbs were avaliable through 1987 cars. your shootout is NOT budget oriented. sorry. sounds like a bunch of elitist fourth gen guys that don't turn their own wrenches at this point.

i promise you this. your thirdgen car count will be VERY low by limiting it to ONLY efi. most guys on a REAL budget ditch the EFI for a carb in the thirdgen world if they want to go fast. you've excluded every single base model v8 car through 1987. that's gay.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

matt i tried argueing that we're being led to the slaughter on this, but they seem to think it's a fair competition.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

This is why I just let my subscription run out. Stuff like this is just silly and of no value to anyone. This all almost seems like a sick joke, anyone that thinks an L98 (or LT1 for that matter) will stand a chance is dreaming. This test is so obviously skewed it makes me wonder about the sanity of the people that are executing it.

Lets all face it though, GMHTP is catering to its largest customer base, which is I am sure the LS1 crowd. LS1 4th gens, GTOs and Vettes are about all the magazine is comprised of, which is probably a reflection of most of the readers of this magazine. They do have a few great articles and some neat info, but each year the LC2, L98 coverage becomes fewer and fewer. Which is annoying to us thirdgen guys but we are not the focus customer here. Another annoying thing is if GMHTP is focused on late model performance, where are all the Regal GS's and GTPs at? The blown 3.8s GM has produced in the past few years are very strong performers but I dont see them anywhere in the magazine ever.

Steven89Iroc

Some of you guys seem to be forgetting the name of the magazine. GM High Tech Performance. Carburators aren't considered by most to be high tech by any stretch of the imagination, hence the no carb rule.
TPI isn't much better, but still has plenty of technology involved, not incredibly different from the new stuff.

Aside from all that, I agree that pitting thirdgens against fourthgens in a "budget shootout" is obviously a bit pointless, as the truth of the matter lies in the fact that technology moves forward, and when that's aimed at going faster, newer is usually faster. It's that simple.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This past Friday my son dialed 14.52 in my Camaro (CC carb, 350, TH700, 2.93 gears, etc., etc., etc.) against a '95 LT1 Camaro that dialed 15.22. Beat him when the 95's brakes hung up off the line.

I'm sure I've spent less on my Camaro than they did buying their '95.

I let my subscription expire for the same reason as 1MeanZ.

(Oh, that's right, I said I wasn't going to offer any more opinions on this.)

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

but your car is not stock therefore you can't play

Scott@GMHTP

I am sorry if I did not make that clear enough in my original post, but this shootout is for EFI's only. GM High-Tech only covers late model GM EFIs, as that has been the premise of the magazine since it was created over 10 years ago. Those of you who have an EFI Fbody that you feel fits the description and the spirit of the rules outlined, feel free to apply and do not be deterred by any assumptions made on this thread.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

let me ask this. who in their right mind puts ONLY a blower on the car and calls it budget?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i'm sorry man, but if you've got to keep the motor stock, but all bolt ons are OK (and for some reason a supercharger/turbo is a bolt on...yeah righ) and you can change the rearend out...you can easily spend upwards of 10K putting bolt-on's on.

blower-$3500
full exhaust-$1000 (if you go with shorties and a catback)
roller rockers-$250
pulleys-$100
9" rearend-$3000
the list goes on...this is not budget oriented in any way...

my car:
113 casting aluminum heads-$400
shim gaskets to bump c/r-$40
powermax solid lifter cam/lifters-$180
holley 650 double pumper/manifold-$400
roller rockers-$250
ATI 10" converter-$650(single most expensive thing on my car)
full exhaust with longtubes and dual exhaust-$280
this is a real budget street/strip car.

Scott@GMHTP

We have decided to extend the application deadline to June 18th, and all invitees will be notified no later than June 25th. Sorry for the inconvenience, and if any applicants have any questions or concerns please let me know.

G-Ride14

You plan on doing something like this in the west coast anytime soon?

Steven89Iroc

Thanks for keeping it professional.

TPI-Formula350-

I got my invite today from Steve at GMHTP. I know I won't be beating LS1 cars with the same mods as me but it should be a good time. I'm expecting my car to run very low 13's to high 12's. So who else is going?

TTA850

I'll be there, shooting for 12.0's in the heat.

Steve

83-ta-5spd

i will be there, hoping to hit 14s, gonna try to get my buddy to come with me so i can get it trailered home after i break it =P nah hes coming for a just in case

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

maybe its a 3rdegn vs 3rdgen 4thgen vs 4thgen kind of a shootout

ps if you guys would unhook your knock sensors and crank your timing youd trap more mph....

anywaysince my car is far from stock Im chearing for our 3rdgen boys !!!!

Steven89Iroc

What kind of bone-headed advice is that? I hope nobody listens to it. You obviously need to do much, much more research before giving anybody advice.

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

I'm going.

Oh, and by the way, I put 42 degrees of total timing in it and some 104, pretty much the same E.T. and mph as stock timing and 93. Still playing with it though. Definitely putting a converter in it so i can run 12's in the heat. ran 13.20@103 saturday with it 95 outside and very humid

brutalform

Thats probably exactly what it will be. If you read the earlier posts in this thread, you will see that when I was invited to a GMHTP event in 1996, thats how it was put together. If it is not that way, and third gens, and fourth gens DO pair up, then they obviously changed the way they do it. The fourth gens were in an earlier issue, than the third gens in the issue I was in. As a matter of fact, all runs were done in the right lane only, just to get ETs, 60's, and MPHs, of the cars. Now, we are talking ten years ago, and they might just have a regular ole heads up thing too. I personally would like some members that were invited, to post, and tell how it went, when its all done.(I'm sure they will). Nothing feels better than having your ride in ink!

Ray87Z

Does it really matter who is running who, readers are going to compare the cars and their times no matter what, and for a budget bolt on only test the 4thgens are going to be better/faster. But a good showing from some of the 350 TPI guys could reverse some people's assumptions about "slow thirdgens". I think it will be a very interesting shootout that I will be looking forward to seeing the results of.

I think you guys should be happy GMHTP wanted to have anything to do w/ thirdgens at all instead of getting all up in arms over the details...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

yep your right!!!!! thats why i was running 12.70s with my 89 formula 350 back in 92-93 with the crappy SLP stuff and a stock chip.... oh and I did it on a budget...
I have mostlikely FORGOT more than you know..

back on topic

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

[QUOTE=Ray87Z] But a good showing from some of the 350 TPI guys could reverse some people's assumptions about "slow thirdgens". I think it will be a very interesting shootout that I will be looking forward to seeing the results of.QUOTE]


How will this change anyone's opinion of slow thirdgens? GTAmatt's claims put him at one of the fastest near stock L98s ever and he will get pasted by a stock LS1 6speed car with a good driver. How will that convince anyone that thirdgens can be quick? Even some of the other members here that are capable of mid 12s will not stand a chance. 12s is plenty quick, dont get me wrong, but all it takes to go mid 12s with today's technology is an ls1, a set of slicks, and and exhaust and a 'lid. I congratulate anyone in the 12s with a thirdgen that is still driveable with decent mileage, that is an accomplishment. But it is stated that this is to be a shootout of all cars that fit the rules.

2QUIK4U

iTrader: (1)

I don't care if the L98's get smoked. I search GMHTP for any little srap of L98 action. We need all the coverage we can get for third-gens. I wish i lived closer to NJ i think my unmolested 140k L98 would be up to the challenge, i can flog her all day long..
Can't wait to see the article

Steven89Iroc

That's the most sensible thing I've read from you yet. You're very correct, this isn't the place to discuss it. If you will, start a new thread in tech explaining exactly why your advice as stated isn't very bad information. I'm not posting anything more about it here.


Regardless of outcomes, I look forward to seeing the shootout in GMHTP. It sounds like there should be some pretty quick cars on both ends.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

you might want to try up to 14 degs base with 93 and no knock sensor.. be careful tho sneak up on it.. I was running 16degs base and i would get just a touch of knock right @ the big end... you will lose power with 104. these motors dont have enough compression to need it.. all with a stock chip..

sounds like you have a good combo going good luck !!!!!

Ray87Z

You don't have to win every race to have a quick car, alot of people aren't aware that a bolt on 350 TPI can run low 13s or better, I think that is a fairly quick car that can be had for cheap, is easy to work on and fun to own. I know more than a few people that think all mildly modded 350 TPI thirdgens are 14 second slugs, clearly not the case. I'm sure most of GMHTPs readers will enjoy seeing the times put out by all the cars involved, I know I will. I guess if you guys want to be mad about reality (that a bolt on 350 TPI is going to be slower than a bolt on LS1) then by all means go ahead. Meanwhile I'm sure this article/shootout will just show whats possible on a budget with the different later gen Fbodies of different flavors, nothing wrong with that.

TPI-Formula350-

Just ordered new OEM valve spring kit from Summit. I'm sure the originals are pretty shot with 133K on them. Then I plan on getting a dyno tune and putting my Drag Radials back on and should be ready for 8/1 Shootout. Looks like I will be trailering the car there....

TTA850

I'm not sure weather I'll be running drag radials or et streets, had the car out yestarday, should be just about ready to go. This time I'm gonna try to hit the track a few weeks before the shootout to make sure the car is running right, unlike the last GMHTP shootout I took this car to, where I didnt run this car for a while before going and it didnt run to my expectations. Course thats if I can find the time now that my normal points season is picking back up.

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

I race mine every friday, saturday and sunday. Won last friday night, runner up last night, oh, and 4 perfect lights in my last 5 times to the track. trying to figure out what the car likes and doesn't like. 13.15 last night with it very hot and humid.

TTA850

Nice sounds like the season I had last year, 7 wins, 2 runner ups, and finished 2nd in points - of course thats in my 89 GTA and not with the car I'll be bringing on Aug 1st.

RWB____s

I think the magazines are pushing 4th gen LSX technology to show how far and how much better the newer cars run than the Old? tech cars. Remember they make most of their money by advertising and lately its 99% new tech stuff. The more converts they can get to buy the new tech stuff(AT THE OUTRAGES PRICES THE MFG DEMAND FOR THE STUFF) the more money they make.
I really doubt they have a good encentive for volunteers to race in their event outside of being totally embarassed or humiliated in a national publication.

TPI-Formula350-

.
I really doubt they have a good encentive for volunteers to race in their event outside of being totally embarassed or humiliated in a national publication.[/QUOTE]

I can't see how a 3rd gen running low 13's or better with stock internals will be embarassing or humiliating. Yes the 4th gens will be faster but theres always someone faster.

Blu91Z28

How'd you guys do? Sorry if I missed another post about it. I suppose you're not at liberty to post anything since the magazine hasn't hit the stands yet.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Yes there is always someone faster, that is true. Bracket racing, friday night test and tune, etc. You will always run into someone faster. However, this is a competetion specificially designed to pit all three of the engines in question against eachother head to head. The sole purpose of this competetion is to run heads up L98 vs LT1 vs LS1. This is not a gathering, it is a competetion with winners and losers. Why would you go directly into a competetion you know will lose?

The reason I am so peeved is because the editors (and anyone else for that matter) know this will be a slaughter. It is a complete joke to even suggest "lets race stock L98s vs stock LS1s". This does not promote interest in fuel injected F-bodies, this is going to be more like a gang rape. Comparing closely performing cars is fun because no one really knows the outcome for sure. It casts a positive light on both cars even if one loses by a little. This a purposeful and blatant slaughter. Its like they wanted to race LT1s vs LS1s but didnt want to alienate their thirdgen fans too badly so they out of obligation invited the thirdgen guys, except half of us couldnt go if we wanted to because we have made too many mods, thats retarded.

GRRRRRRR I'm pissed off. sorry for the rant, I am off my soap box now.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

someone needs to just close this thread before i go off the deep end again...

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

Actually, that is not how this event was held. It had nothing to do with who was faster. It was just to see what different bolt ons would do for each motor. no head to head racing took place.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

GTAmatt how fast did your 'majic' trans am go?

Ray87Z

Did they let on what issue this write up would appear in? I'm looking forward to reading it. {Edit - Nevermind I see in the other GMHTP thread Scott said it would be around March-May of next year, dang long wait..}