gurkgurkgurk

so at school i ran into a guy whos ford guy, he was talking about how slow my camaro was compared to his 89 5.0 mustang, so i told him by the time i got my new motor in id have no problem taking him down so were planning on taking our cars to the quarter mile strip to do some friendly racing.

his 89 mustang.

standard 302 windsor stroked out to 335? i believe it is
3.73 gears in the rear end
bbk cold air intake
t-5 manual transmission


my 86 camaro

building a 383 stroker
ported and siamesed tpi system
adjustable fuel pressure regulator
smog legal headers and 3 inch downpipe and exhaust
high flow cat
recently rebuilt 700r4 with shift kit, vette servo
hurst dual gate shifter
home made ram air setup
3.23 gears



i havent chosen my cam yet but hopefully someone can shine some light on me and please tell me i wont get my *** handed to me by his little foxbody. i know the ford 302 is a good motor because of its bore and stroke combination, but is stroking his engine out further going to make a huge difference?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Don't forget.....Fox bodies have a weight advantage over us & a stroked 302 isn't no slouch.

Gonna do any weight lightening to your car? LCARBs? ANY suspension tweaks?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

what cylinder head are you going to run? what kinda cylinderheads/cam is he running?

to be honest, he's got you in pretty much every way but cubic inch displacement currently, and putting the TPI on your new motor is only going to make matters worse...

gurkgurkgurk

he'll be running stock heads and cam while ill be running cast iron heads with 1.94 intake valves and i believe it was 64cc combustion chambers? i computed my static compression ratio to about 9.5 to 1.

im also planning on tearing out all the stuff i dont need, rear carpet, seats, spare tire, basically anything i dont need.

wont it matter though since he'll be using a 5 spd as opposed to me using my automatic?

tell me all is not lost guys

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

what casting number is on your cylinder heads? alot of 350 cylinder heads had 1.94 intake valve and a 64cc chamber...

Jason89RS

iTrader: (2)

Don't forget to figure in tuning of the computer. With that combo the car probably won't run very good on the factory tune.

gurkgurkgurk

cant remember the casting number, theyre double hump heads thats all i can remember right now, im doing all the work on them myself, port and polish, valve job, everything. no corners are being cut anywhere

thunder-lips

Watch out for those fox bodies. They can be very fast. There is a possibilty you could take him with a few tweaks to your build. Just my opinion, if you want 1/4 mile results don't siamese. From what I have read there are little advantages to this like performance only in higher RPM. So if he takes you off the line you better have a turbo to catch up.

Next, can he actually drive? You don't need to worry if you can drive since you have an automatic. I do like the 700r4. BM shift kit in mine works super.

I was going to say different headers but I see you are in Cali.

He is running basically stock except he is stroked. If you get a nice cam you could have an advantage. Throw on a 150 shot of n20 and show him up. You should have your heads opened up a bit too.

And as Jason said don't forget the proper tune.
As for picking out a cam I could probably help you out there. I just spent about 3 weeks picking out mine for my 383 I am in the process of building.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Typically 347.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

If you were closer I would throw you the keys to my car and you can just tell him you have been saving it for a special occasion. I don't think you would have any problems putting a few cars on him.


No seriously. I would put some money towards a $450 NOS kit and hand him his a$$.

jg04222

Blue Bottle Time!

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I and several other SoCal thirdgenners with TPI engines running 12 second ET's beg to differ with you. Siamesing the TPI would be great to balance out the extra torque you'll get with a 383.

And if you build a 383 to his 347, you know he'll cry that you have more cubes.

I hope you're using a roller cam block for your starting point. Get a Comp XFI268HR-113 and "jack it up like a *****!"

CHAMARO

you may have an edge depending on if he can drive that 5 spd, but its close.
NOS 100 shot = good insurance

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

let me get this straight, your tpi 350 with HOURS of work hogging out the intake has been 12.80 @ 108...and my old carbed 305 has been 12.3x's @ 108...give me one good reason to think the tpi is the better platform

i believe that EFI is definitely the way to go, but the TPI intake leaves alot on the table. and i know that stock cammed/intake TPI cars have been decently quick, but it's not the norm, nor is it easy to get there from a stock motor. the HSR is a great way to take the old school OBDI motors into a decently quick realm, but the reality of it is, the stock TPI unit sucks donkey ***** in comparison.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

12.3 305s are the norm either...More like 16 second 305s are the norm.

You can't say you didn't spend HOUS and $$$, to get a 305 to run that fast. Then there is the car its in...How LIGHT is the car? How much $$ did you put in to lightening the body (glass hood, etc.) the chassis?

Easier & cheaper to get a 350 to run that, than a 305. Then there is the fuel efficiency. A 12 second 305 probably drinks gas like crazy, has low rear gears & not a good car in the end, for a street car.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Because Tuned Port Injection was never really the problem, depending on the setup, whether Mass Air Flow, or Speed Density, the ECM was always the main restriction, especially with Mass Air Flow applications. Throwing a Holley Stealth Ram on would be pointless when the MAF itself can still outflow the ECM's 255 g/sec limitation. Upgrading to, say, a MAP based MegaSquirt processor, and larger runners, would catapult the OP's Tuned Port Injected 383....

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

If the MAF is a problem, why not put a LS1 MAF on your TPI? Then you only have the ECM to deal with.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...t-ls1-tpi.html


For that matter, just put a whole LS1 ECM system on your TPI. Not easy, but apparently doable.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/default.aspx

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The stock MAF was never the problem, the ECM was. The stock ECM can only see up to 255 g/sec, regardless which MAF you employ. Once you upgrade the processor, you can then realize the stock MAF's full potential....

But that is exactly the point that I was making, upgrading the processor, not the MAF itself. Switching to an LS1 PCM, although has been done, is a hassle, and isn't really needed though. To go through that much of an extreme, he'd be better off switching to a MAP based setup....

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

305 with a 280H cam and 113 heads costs little to build...the 4000 stall converter and built 700r4 aren't out of the question either, nor is the 4.10 gears and a 28" tall tire. the car weight 2910, but i was running a factory 82 'glass hood at the time, that cost me NOTHING to buy. with the converter locked up on the highway i was averaging 22mpg, with a 650 double pumper and 4.10 gears! everything i had in the car was off the shelf with the exception of the converter, which i had ATI build for the car, but that's not anything real special, i just built the car correctly.

when i tore up my 113 heads and the 700r4 in the same month, i decided it'd be a good idea to do up a set of 416's and a th350. i then put a 9" in the car that already had some 4.56's in it that i just never changed. i did this as a quick fix. it made the car go slower and much less fun to drive. that's why i'm redoing everything now. (oddly enough, i'm going fuel injected this time around cause i will admit it works better!)

jg04222

wouldn't switching to a speed density tune be a better option than maf? i dont really know one way or the other, just seems like a lot of the LS1 guys run speed density, especially in boost applications. supposedly it yeilds better end results?

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

a 302 is not a Windsor... so he probably has a stock 302 with a stroker crank making it a 347. If he's all motor, couldnt be quicker than 8.30's. 1/8th

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

My 12.80 was run back in 2001 with my previous combo, with little time spent hogging out the intake, only port matching. I have no new ET's with the new combo, which does have hours of work hogging and siamesing the runners and intake. However, Allen (1989GTATransAm) has run a best of 12.29 @ 110 or so, at Fontana, which has a density altitude of 3000'+ on most days. That's 11.90's at a sea level track. His car is also a full weight street car, and passes CA smog. How much does your car weigh, and is it a street car, or a race car you run on the street?

Yes a long tube runner TPI setup sucks. We've proven that over and over. But when you shorten the runners, I'll take a TPI setup any day over an antiquated carb setup for the street.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I'd say the MAF setup is a restriction, in both MAF sensor size and computer limit, but the MAP system has no restriction. I'm able to do anything with my 7730 that a megasquirt can do, naturally aspirated. Now, if you're running a power adder, then heck yes an aftermarket ECU is better.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The stock MAF sensor can definitely be improved upon, but from the factory, it was always the ECM, and the 255 click limitation that was the restriction though. Some guys I know maintain the stock 3" MAF (descreened), running a translator and corresponding PROM, in which effectively reads to 510 g/sec, or even 765 g/sec, and will run the entire spectrum from idle to WOT under full MAF control. When some people find out that these guys are running turbo buicks, they'll immediately point out the difference w/the '7148 ECM's, but then I tell them that that is exactly the point. Difference being the processor. Fastest I've witnessed with the stock MAF; in turbo buick applications was low tens, in naturally aspirated L98 applications was low elevens....

Shagwell

wow, this has gotten a bit of topic.... - Carbs may be old, but they're far from antiquated. As of now, they have yet to be able to make as much peak HP with efi on a pro-stock engine as the carbs do. Realizing that is a very specific engine, just an example. Hell several guys on theturboforums getting as good of gas mileage out of blow-thru carb set-ups as most efi guys ever get and run ridiculous amounts of boost through them as well, all while being very smooth/responsive/etc. - and yes, the stock ecu is one of the biggest limitations of these cars stock. Personally I wouldn't spend anything tuning the stock ecu, switch to MS or another system and be ahead of the game. Not sure about emmissions myself, but I'm sure you could run an LS ecu and be fine.

Back to topic - A decent built 383 with good heads, a ported TPI and the proper tuning should be capable of at least running with a mild stroked 302(could be 331 or 347, either +/- a few CI depending on the over-bore). Old-school double hump heads or ok, but they're nothing when compared to newer technology. Aftermarket heads are money well spent, or at least some decently ported vortecs.