IHI

iTrader: (1)

Copied from a another forum i goto since it's too long to rewrite:
After 2 years of headaches with this engine we're finally on the downhill, but it took taking more hits tonight to finalize how badly this shop ****ed me over on this deal.

Quick recap:
car was way down on power on the rebuild with nothing changed but the shop that put it together ported the heads and stuck a cam in there he said would make more power...it was waay down, i lost .5 on the track and convertor flashed 1000K lower. it is what it is, got it tuned to run 10.80's for brackets last year since i figured it's slow, but i need a break from the previous yrs debockle.

This winter i removed the heads, sent them to Chad at Speier Racing Heads, he found the guy just got hog wild when he ported them and ruined the velocity, good flow numbers but lazy. So chad got my heads all sorted out and working effeicently while barely losing flow numbers which were better than out of box on these 100% CNC'd heads. BUT when i was removing the heads initally, i found 4 pushrods that were different lengths from what i had...was told 12 of my old pushrods were still straight, and i guess he pulled whatever was close out of his extra's bin and slapped them in there...so now the shop not only ruined my heads they just installed whatever they had laying around inside the shop into my engine.

So heads are back, sent Chad my intake to port as long as i was doing top end work, was just going to bolt it all back together for A-B testing to see how much heads getting fixed and intake picked me up over last year. Amoungst all this i bought a belt drive for the cam since i intend to swap cams later depending on what happens with this cam currently installed. So i call up some freinds and asked if they could baseline where my current cam is degreed in so we could put it back exact once i put the belt drive on it.

They triple checked it since it did'nt make sense numbers wise, the cam was installed at 91.5 degrees.....yes, you read this right...91.5* supposed to be at 102* These guys were freaking out and told me to rip the timing chain cover off asap, the timing gears HAD to be a tooth off. (need to mention i also fought timing jumping around like crazy last season when you reved it) Soon as we pulled the cover i noticed right away, the cam gear bolted to the cam was the original billet piece i had bought, which was the top half of what i had when the crank snapped at the snout...the bottom gear was some old steel standard 3 ket set up like a run of the mill Cloyes timing gear set.

They checked TDC again, and the lower timing gear was installed 4* advanced, but they were nowhere close to matching up at TDC explaing the 91.5* the cam was installed at. Once we took all this crap in, they started pulling rod caps since obviously those had to have taken a beating being that far off, and to all out suprise they were still like new on both sides of the bearing on both sides of the rod.

So shop ruined my head, installed mismatched pushrods, installed mismatched timing gears, and NEVER degreed the cam or else they would've caught this and NOT installed it at 91.5* How in the F... does a machine shop do this Shyt????

So as it sits, I'm glad i had them come over and check cam installation so we could find how screwed up it was, and i HOPE this thing starts putting down some good numbers after all this headache, all this time, all this money fixing what a supposed machine shop botched up. Best pass with it in the current state was 10.76 @123mph N/A and 10.06 @ 130mph on a 150shot playing around...ALL on pump gas. In light of what we found, i'm thinking sooo much compression was being lost with the valve hanging open, that's how i got by on 93 octane this whole time, so when i dyno in 2-3 weeks i'll just take 110 with me so i know it's safe...but it's only 11.8:1 so i dunno, maybe it's worth trying to wringe it out on the 93 octane first to see what i can get away with initally before resorting to race gas??

WOW is all i can say about this whole fricken ordeal, in too much shock at this point to think a business conciously did this shyt

red406

iTrader: (4)

This is why I like to assemble an engine myself. I think you need to find a new engine guy. WOW!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

glad to see your going to pick up some mph and obviously some HP, my friends similar combo is 9mph higher than you on motor and its a nitrous combo so I KNEW there was something way wrong. Hope it comes out flying this season.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

many people dont listen to me when i tell them not to trust any of the local "good ol boy" shops. their idea of good head porting is to hog it out as much as possible and make it look shiny. also, in more cases than one i have seen a shop put random parts in motors. -just stuff they had laying around.
its good to see youve found a competent group to work with!

IHI

iTrader: (1)

I can understand piecing and engine together for the mud packing, roundey round boyz since if they get claimed they dont want any money invested in the engine "to lose", but that's why i like drag racing, most of the guys i run with know what a dollar is worth and are'nt afraid to spend it if they're getting good service and good parts. We all got budgets, but i'd rather pay alot now and have things done right ONCE, as opposed to doing thigns over and over. I trusted the wrong guy/shop...got snookered and one way or another, he'll be getting his, you can count on that since i'm not going to tolerate the typical "dont know what to tell you" BS these pukes pull when they fock customers over.

I'll never recoup the cost vested into this thing at this point, but at least now i know 100% everything will be correct inside and out. But the name of this engine is "Chapter 7" for obviously reasons LOL

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Got everything taped off and laid on 4 coats of chebbie orange on the shortblock..have'nt flown those colors in awhile so figured WTF. Took and put 5 coats of clear coat onto the intake and 3 coats on the block. Had the intake ported and the guy bead blasted it so it looked clean again, so figured sealing it with the clear coat would maybe help keep it cleaner instead of staining with oil mist/gas spillage.

Overnighted a new electric water pump, mine was fine and still working but i wanted a little bling since hopefully this is the last time for awhile i have to mess with this and would like it looking purdy too, new timing pointer, and distributor stud and hold down. Heads are just sitting there, i have to remove the #1 int/exh spring and install checker springs so we can do piston to valve clearance check. but i imagine it will be 100% bolted together ready and waiting for the dyno by Friday for sure..then the day of reckoning wont come fast enough to see how much we improved this beast...

Tape just peeled off.


New intake valves installed to get the throat better related to air flow


Runners did'nt show up as well as i planned


Clear coat on the intake to hopefully prevent staining.


Everything just sitting there for now until we get the cam degreed in and piston/valve clearance checked and okay'd

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Forgot about the intake after it was ported: i can see how this is an EASY 15-20hp mod in itself
oh, forgot about the intake getting ported

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

holy crap! i can't wait to hear your numbers this year! good luck josh!

ross

Looks great! This season you will be putting down some #s. Sorry about your luck with the last engine builder.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Last 2 builder...the first one put the wrong main bearings in and wrong crank seal.

Shagwell

SHINEY! - seriously though, looks good man. Hope to hear some solid numbers soon. Good luck!

IHI

iTrader: (1)

I guess the bright side of the whole ordeal is i found a outstanding shop i'll be working with on the dyno soon that will also have my business in the future for machine work as well as assembly. Sucks it's 3hrs away, but many of the top drivers from the tracks we run have their work done there. I'l just have to be patient since the waiting list is loong, and this winter i'll have this completely gone through top to bottom if it does'nt let go prior...i guess that's all i need after all this

intake is shiney, verdict still out if i like it or not, but i guess for me so long as it wipes up clean after a jet swap or oil mist getting on itthen i'll deal with the shiney look LOL!! In person it's not that bad, i think the flash on my phone overhighlighted it.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

hey man, I'm trying to find a shop to help out do a 383 for me in the next year or so, and am having a problem finding a reputable builder, care to share who you're working with now? feel free to pm

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I recall you and xbndble singing the praises before about machine shops. ie. don't do it yourself, you'll screw it up! Pay someone to do it, they do it every day, they know what they're doing! I enjoy this hobby, i'd rather pay someone else to do it so I can have fun driving the car. *end quote*

Well well well - do I get to say I told you so now? Just kidding, I screwed up a few times on my builds, but at least I saved a ton of cash, and I wouldn't have made THOSE mistakes. Those are just lazy corner cutting mistakes. That's why I don't trust anyone else to build my engines. I'll take their advice, but I want to be the last one checking everything.

Looking forward to seeing your newest results!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

he went to some new machine shop, i've been dealing with the same guy for YEARS. I know he only installs all new parts, nothing off the shelf laying around is ever put in my motors. Poor Josh, but I don't think he'll go back to that shop either.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

THIS is the shop i bought my current heads from and will be dynoing at, and who i WANTED to rebuild this after the crank snapped a few years ago, but they are always backlogged..and for good reason. Their prices are right there with everybody else it seems for machine work and assembly, and I deal with Jamie Stoen, he also runs Super Pro down here as well, but like he said, no matter if you get a stock rebuild or a $30,000 engine, they all get assembled the same exact way, the only difference is the price on parts and machine work. for the record, that shop is that clean all day every day, even when they're 70 engines deep in rebuilds....and IMO the way a shop keeps the "house" speak volumes about how they run their business. From now on, I'll wait on them.

You could also check out Scott in Cedar Rapids, we have alot of guys up here that work with him and have good running stuff, and like Sputs, Scott keeps a clean shop as well. Spiere Engines (cant recall actual spelling of his last name) but he built the 383 in my unlces S10 that runs out nicely and has never given us a bit of trouble.

If it was'nt for a local high end shop trying to rip me off on my heads when i was looking i woulda went with them since they build ALOT of high end late model engines too, but they tried telling me i had to pay $200 more for titanium retainers when i knew they came stock fromt he factory that way, I even called Jamie while standing in this shop to confirm it so i knew i was right as they're both Brodix dealers. I had the cash in hand and they tried dupping me...not happenin.


Sonix: it was a bad chain of events that lead to this, that's for sure, but i stand behind my statement of using a shop to build things. I could feel my way through it just as you could probably feel your way through remodeling something or building a addition/house, but fact of the matter is I'm not investing thousands into tool to do it right when i can pay a shop that has everything on hand to check and fix a problem i may never know is a problem since i lack in experience...just sucks i got f..ked by two shops in a row that had previously done me right. Just one of life's lessons, but luckily i have a fantastic tranny guy, and will now be working with a top notch engine shop so i'm all good from here on out, just have to wait a bit to get my stuff done is all.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

josh
we have cordova rented out in early may if you'd like in, i think it's $35 or $45 a car if you'd like to show up. Typically we have 30 cars out there, so plenty of TnT time.

hope it all gets sorted out, I'll be messing with my junk like always, hopefully I don't pop anything at the end of may I have racers tickets for pinks all out in Indy.

~Steve

IHI

iTrader: (1)

We'll have to see how it goes, you dont happen to have a definate date do you so i can see what races may be falling on that time? Our first points race is a month away which i think it too soon since they always seem to get rained on, but i dont make the schedule LOL!!! But once you get a definate date locked in, let me know so i can see what else is going on that weekend race wise so i can widdle that out of the schedule and then it's just work and family obligations, but that's not real far away and i have a buddy i recently got in contact with online i found lives down there so i could kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

may 9th is the date if you were interested.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Yah we'll see how thing pan out, not much into the T&T thing anymore, but it'd be good to visit with ya again. The only race schedule is at Eddyville so if my BIL and nephew who i sponsor are going there we probably will too, but if not and nothing's going on, then i'm all for towing down for something to do.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

wow! i cant beleive som shop, would let something like that out the door.
my 15 yr. old nephew assembled a 5.3 ls engine for his project truck and it makes excellent power, always has 60psi of oil pressure. and now has around 8k miles. he assembled using notes i gave him and from a how to rebuild ls1 books. lol
i dont even do cam swaps unless i can degree the cam with adj. chain.
if they dont allow me for that, im not doing it.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

In reality, this kiind of crap is "nature of business" just like the jack leg low ball hacks that plauge my industry, the hacks that operate auto shops that repair cars, crappy cooks in restruants...hacks are all around us and it sucks when you get nailed by one...if i was a tight budget, penny pinching **** i would use this as a lesson to myself about going cheaper is'nt always better, but this is a situation i flat out got screwed all the way around and back.

Oh well, it is what it is for now, "supposed" to have the guy stop by tonight and degree the cam in and then we can check piston to valve clearance and correct if necessary, get timing pointer locked down and i can finish assembling the thing. Not much to do really, set the jessels back up and run valve lash, install intake and installing cooling lines back on it and the heads, install water pump, put on valve coveres, drop in dizzy, install plugs/wires, put on motor lifting plate, add oil/filter, bolt onto transport stand for the moment of reckoning

I'll deal with this other azzhole this summer when he comes down to the track

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Glad you found someone to help you out. I've been debating buying a cam degree wheel so I don't have to rely on other people for something simple like a cam swap, but so far dot to dot has worked out for me. If you're up for that track rental let me know sometime in april and I'll cover you ahead of time for it. I'll be bringing out the grill and 2 cars with me to see how it does. Sucks are local best of the best NHRA track is only running 6 test and tune dates all season. Seems route 66 only wants the NHRA nationals and to run the bare minimum required by them to keep it there.

caribbean 85

Wow that's just wrong

I am a first timer learning the ropes about degreeing the cam etc. (got a couple of videos on it) so if I have done it these past two weeks - that is just unacceptable

hope it gets better from here

just a quick query - what is the benefit of drilling into the middle of the heads on the intake side to install that water fitting??

its the second time I have seen this done on a SBC head recently

is it necessary for drag race motor with aluminium heads - and must it be done in addition to the usual bypass lines you see on the intake from the front to the back.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Just another place to get rid of hot spots for more uniform coolant temps

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Like Steve said, just another way to circulate water and evacuate hot spots, think of typical sbc heads, the water gets dead headed at the rear of the head, the 2 center cylinders create an intense hot spot since two culinders are firing and the water in the middle is getting the blunt of the heat. So having front o rear lines and the center ports just ensures optimum cooling is all, nothing fancy/trick about it, just an additional benefit. $300 in fittings/lines to make it happen, so not cheap



Well, my buddy came over to degree the cam and i gotta say once we figured out the trick to this cam belt, it's the shizzle, makes adjusting cam timing soooo simple it's scarey. Cam is a 106* LSA, called to be installed at 102* but we went with 103.5..closest we could get to 104* so i could take a bit of bottom end away since it should make better power now, and give me a bit more mph...it wont amount to much, but any little bit helps. Piston to valve clearance is ample, even with the new 2.125 intake valves so i can step up dramatically in lift should i ever decided to stop street driving it and replace valve springs all the time.

I was going to just order all the tools and degree kit so i did'nt have to bother anybody, but once everything was said and done with all the additional stuff i'd want to have so i could use it on whatever, and buy the larger wheel (way more accurate) it was reaching the $600 mark, and i figured, for no more often then i'll ever do this...hopefully never again personally, i can make a quick phone call and let my buddy that does this all the time handle it Did get a new chrome Proform waterpump though to finish off the bling LOL!!! My other proform is still working and cooling flawlessly, but i wanted shiney..figured if it's still slow as helll, it might as well look cool LOL!! So if anybody is looking for an electric water pump i got one fo sale

Shagwell

I just put a polished ari-gap and chromed aluminum valve covers on the sbc I'm droppin gin an S-dime blazer. "If it don't go, chrome it".


I degree all my stuff in with a mr gasket pro wheel and a harbor freight dial indicator. Less than $100 in tools, has worked flawlessly for me. - Herbert has a install method that allows you to check/get fairly close w/o any specialty tools. My old man has the write up on it and usually sets them up that way, then has me check it with the wheel. He's never been more than 1 degree off, so I'd say it works well for the average person.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

I finally got my appointment set for the moment of truth next friday and the guy kinda knows what's going on from the other site i posted on and we've been in contact for awhile throughout all of this so i gave him the run down on everything we found and where we were at with the new cam, he mentioned it may be worth going from the 103* installed upto 106* just to see what happens, he told me on many of their engines when they do that they really dont lost much tq but it picks them up nicely in the high rpm band...so we'll see how it goes next friday, i may just do this on the pump so we can see for certain. I'd much rather have a higher mph than a killer 60' since it'll make the strip that much easier to drive

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Depending on what happens next friday, i think i may have to get rid of this engine, it has been a constant barage of problems since day one, and i'm now, after today throughly convinced it just flat out, has a bad aroa about it, has some bad jew jew, whatever ya wanna call it. Why you ask, what happened now LOL!!! nothing major, but just more rocks in the road:

The other night i started bolting it all together to finish it up, no biggie right. i had to pull the damper back off so i could pull the lower belt drive pulley out a tiny bit, i was'nt happy with it being off a tiny bit from the top pulley. Went to put that back on, screwed the damper installer back into the crank snout, started pushing the damper back on and soon as it had tension i heard and felt a "snap" yep, the adapter that threads into the end of the balancer installer snapped off in the end of the crankshaft...it was some obviously cheap POS i borowed from a buddy, the die itself was hollow and it snapped at the step down. LUCKILY there was juuust enough material to grab onto and i was able to unscrew it out...whew!!! So headed to the store and bought a nice one so i have one myself.

I've been waiting on 4 pushrods so all are the same length, I needed 4 @ 7.875" long. Got ahold of trend performance in Michigan since they make most the pushrods that get relabeled and resold, talked to john and he had plenty in stock, they carry everything is .025 increments so i have them overnighted. Today i was finishing it up, put the first two pushrods in, and even with my jessels completely backed out they were tighter than zero lash...CRAP!!! grabbed th other two and moved to the next cylinder, that fell together just fine, back to the troubled deal. Tried it again making sure cam was on base, no go, pulled rockers to be certain i was in the lifter where it was supposed to be since they're offset lifters i thought i possibly did'nt have the pushrods seated..nope, it was seated. Pulled the pushrods out, looked at stamped number- 7.875 well, lemme mic this out to double check it...nope, these two were both 7.885

So got on the horn, they're overnighting two replacements to me. Luckily i have plenty of time and these two cylinders is all i have left, everything is organized, packed up ready for a road trip, but jeez, all i need now is for it to frag on the pump and i'll probably end up in the fetal position in a corner left to slobber and drool the remaining rest of my life all because of this fack'n engine already let the wife know tonight when i got home about the bad jew jew, and said, if something happens next friday we're ordering a triple nickel from somebody reputable and calling it done...hopefully she'll put up some decent numbers and be quite the rest of the year, but she's not going quietly that's for sure LOL!! What do they say, throw enough money at a problem and eventually it goes away...well, that's the case here for sure LOL!!

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

call the wife and let her know that you're ordering me a engine too then


i got bad bad jew jew for the past decade.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

tell you what, just tell your wife its got bad jew jew, order your triple nickle, and i'll come take that one off your hands. hope things sort out for you, i wanna see it put up some serious numbers!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There's been something that's bothered me since you first posted this thread - what does "hy" mean?

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

lmao five7kid i been wondering the same damn thing since i first saw this thread lol

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Beings how you have access, can you put a W in front of the hy...my secretary fingers got the best of me..it's bugged the crap out of me too

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, not on this forum. That's just Stephen and the admins.

But, now I understand. . .