87_TA

Just as post says, I remember seeing that it was a special cell...
But for me to best utilize cells I will idle in cell 8 or even better 12..

Any reason to not do that?

TRAXION

I've been idling in cell 12 for a long time. It's great. Recently I actually CHANGED the code to reflect that the idle cell is cell 12 and not cell 4. Very nice.

Tim

funstick

im not sure what the big hub bub is about cells for block learns. other then correction facotrs and blm and int update times as well as some o2 pid controll changes and minor ones at that.

just run openloop your engien wil thank you.

11sORbust

My car would "stick" in cell 4. Also would just switch to cell 4 while driving. Kind of like a faulty manual trans that keeps popping out of gear while driving........ So I now idle in a different cell. No more sticking cell 4. Bet it had to do with my cam.

11sORbust

My huge cam 406 runs better in closed loop. I like to have the ecm controling itself. But everyone is different!

87_TA

Thanks Guys,
Trax what is a benefit of changing code to reflect idle as cell 12?




I see your point,
But I have been there and done that with my last cam because I had to. I like closed loop better, I guess because you are not running so blind all of the time.
I think it would be much easier if VE showed PW instead of VE, Then again it would be called PW table if it did.

Though I may be going back to being that my Crankcase evacuators play havoc on the o2 sometimes.

TRAXION

It's actually not that big of a deal in the overall scheme of things. Basically, the idle cell provides a stable section of the BLM map that can be used specifically for idle learning. Ever see those constants for max speed for idle and max TPS for idle? If you don't set the code to reflect what your actual idle cell is then all will still be fine. However, by changing the idle cell your BLMs at idle will tend to be a tad bit more stable.

Quick Tip:
Make your max idle in the idle RPM table the low BLM boundary in the BLM boundary table that way you will be in Cell 12 even on a cold start.

Tim

11sORbust

YEP! that can make a big diff when engine is cold



Like I said, I HAD to change my idle cell. The cam (or whatever) would make cell 4 active way too much. It didn't matter on the idle constants (like max mph for idle). I changed every one and it still "stuck". That's why I idle in a different cell

TRAXION

I was able to keep the code set for idle cell 4 and NEVER touch cell 4. Ever. I did this by simply doing what I have been telling everyone else about; namely, the force idle cell with regard to CCP. This will stop a forced idle cell. It sounds like your setup still has the forced idle cell ... but now it is being forced to the cell of your choice.

I no longer have a 'forced' idle cell and now my idle cell does agree with the cell in which the car really idles.

Tim

11sORbust

Not sure what you mean. Yes my car was forcing cell 4 on deaccel and would also "stick" from a stop. Cell 4 exceeded the mph limit for idle(that I set). So I looked in my log data for a long time and noticed it had to do with ccp duty cycle. When CCP duty cycle was below the constant it would force cell 4. That was my problem and I fixed it by setting the forced idle cell based on ccp dc to 0%. My next log session showed the cells working normal again. BUT when I came to a stop I wasn't idling in cell 4. It now idled in the cell matrix that my idle speed and map was at. That was fine because that cell didn't "stick" or "just pop on".


My question is why did MY car require that constant to be zero'd out? I have two ideas and none of em is the cam......

11sORbust

Ok one guess is that the CCP has an outut going to ecm? When I removed CCP, the ecm wasn't getting a signal?

TRAXION

Searching through old posts and found this one. I don't understand what you are asking.

ALL of our cars $8D require the CCP DC threshold to be zeroed out in order to stop a forced idle block learn cell. Again - I pointed this out a long long time ago. The CCP has no output going to the ECM. All the logic is internal. The ECM knows the CCP DC because it is commanding that DC. This is the same value that is pushed to the ALDL stream. The code has a logic statement that says ...

IF the CCP DC is less than XX% then force the idle cell.

When you set the CCP DC threshold to 0% then the forced idle cell will never occur because you can never be less than 0%. You and I have covered this before.

Tim

11sORbust

We never covered why my car does this. I have several ideas. But no real answer WHY I had to set that constant to 0%. Before the intake,cam,ccp delete my blms worked fine. The ccp didn't make anything hang up before (or on other cars). Know what I mean?????

TRAXION

I think I might be confused because I don't understand why you are confused. I apologize if I'm being too brief on this subject (it's just been beaten to death).

The $8D code specifically forces the idle Block Learn cell (stock is 4) ANYTIME that the commanded CCP Duty Cycle is less than the specified constant. This does not happen for just your car. It happens for every single one of us running the $8D code. Normally this is never a problem. However, when the MAP and RPM indicate that you should be in block learn cell 12 and you are in 4 it gets really screwy. Thus, by changing the CCP DC threshold you can remove this forced idle cell condition. I already stated why you had to set it to 0% ...

You said that the CCP "didn't make anything hang up before (or on other cars)". I beg to differ. It won't lock up the BLMs ... it forces a block learn cell of 4 (unless you've changed it). Please review the following ...



Tim

11sORbust

I understand. BUT my car would stay in cell 4 up to 25+mph from a stop. Befor the cam,etc it didn't do that. Also on deaccel it would pop nto cell 4, it didn't before. There is a couple of other spots cell 4 "stuck". I checked my friends car and everything works fine, just like mine did before. So something happened. Not sure why.......