V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

I'm trying to find out if a Holset H1C would be good on a 4.3 V6. I can get a slightly used reman for free. It's off a Cummins 4BT 3.9L diesel. I can get measurements if you need them. I'm still learning so bear with me. All this A/R stuff is new to me.

Drac0nic

GET IT the compressor will be a pretty good match for a 4.3L, although on the small side for a 5L however. You can also upgrade it to an H1E cold side. Holset turbos are rated differently then most others, they use the area of the turbine instead of the Area/the radius of the scroll (commonly called A/R. The exhaust housings on these can vary widely between years and engines, any PNs you have on it would probably be helpful. A free turbo is a free turbo, pick it up.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

It all depends on what type of application the engine is being used. For most purposes the H1C will work fine on that V6. Yes, any free turbos are worth hanging on to.

I have heard all kinds of things about Holset A/R and how to interpret them. I have two here that I have measured the A/R and all I can say is most people have never verified what they say/heard about Holset A/R. Keep in mind that A/R will end up with a unit of measurement (i.e. inches, mm, cm, miles, etc). Some people confuse that with an area measurement.

In general, all of the Holsets with a compressor comparable to Garretts comps. have the same size or smaller turbine on them. Your results may vary.

The H1C and 4.3L sounds like a good project. I would fab it up and try it. I bet you will be happy with it and not want to try another turbo.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies!

We have a few junk Grumman P30 trucks at work. 3 of them have the Cummins 4BT. I went out and found the derelict truck with the reman turbo. I checked the trucks mileage to our computer and found that the turbo was put on 30k miles ago. It looks to be in good shape but I still have to pull the intake pipe and do the "wiggle check" on the compressor.

I'm excited. I'm going to pull the turbo if it checks out and start doing my homework on wastegates and BOV's.

I think I should drop JoBy a line and see how he did boost on his TBI setup. Hopefully I'll need that info in the next coming months. Then I'll be able to launch in 4 LOW. It'll be awesome until the front diff housing pops!

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Why not ask me, lol?

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Did you build a blow thru TBI system? I can't hardly keep up with all your inventions.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Mine was drawthrough. I have tuned a blowthrough though.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

When you pull the intake pipe check what the diameter of the compressor inducer wheel is by taking a piece of construction paper and cutting it to fit in the housing deep enough to touch the wheel. Then measure the paper. It will give you a +/- 1mm measurement of the wheel diameter. The H1Cs have different comp. wheels.
Also, look at the turbine for a number like 13, 16, 17, 19, 23 all by itself. That will give you an idea of what the turbine A/R is. It relates to how fast the turbo will spool.

I like it. I have been playing with a 1+ year long turbo install in a 4WD. It has some goodies....huge IC, water injection, dual exhaust, $8D code. If I could just keep myself from side projects and get the truck done. I don't plan on pushing it in 4WD though. It will probably chuck the transfer case chain. Projects like these are fun because there are low expectations. I would like to see one pass in the very high 13s out of the 305ci. Actually, that is a high expectation. Fun stuff.

TM has a lot of info on wastegates. Dave12secV6 has an SSAC wastegate I think and I think he said he hasn't had a problem with it.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

junkcltr - thanks, I'll do that and post my results.

Fast - please tell more about your blow-thru TBI tuning experience

I went back to work...couldn't wait until tomorrow. I didn't take the reman unit mentioned above. It was wasted. I called my boss and he thinks the engine locked up because the dingus truck driver ran it out of oil. I believe it, the turbo was locked up solid. Another one I got the intake and exhaust pipes off and poked the turbine and the compressor fell out the front...DOH!

I did score a decent H1C off a '79 4BT tho. It had some carbon build up in the turbine but most of it cleaned out easy. There is a tiny bit of axial play in the shaft. Are there any specs on this?

BTW, we do have 4 or 5 of these H1C's in better condition than the two I said above(mostly just wore out, not locked up) that I'm sure I could sell *cheap* for rebuilds...or paper weights

Drac0nic

got anything bigger? I'm looking for something a hair larger.

Drac0nic

On second thought after doing my home work these look to be good for about 450-500ish, so rather then that do you happen to by stroke of luck have a decent shape one with an internal WG? Looking for one for my 'stro.

CrazyHawaiian

Do you have a compressor map for that Holset H1C? I've always been the type to go based off compressor maps. If you wanted to go that route find out how much CFM the motor will flow (based of VE%), then calculate the Pressure Ratio, the Density Ratio, and compare the results against the compressor map.

Drac0nic

That's the problem with Holsets. There are none that are really released to the general public usually, they're really hard if not impossible to find.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Looks like most of these turbos I scavenged are toast. The one I brought home had so much axial play because the compressor already "clearanced itself" in the scroll housing.

Looks like I may have to take them all apart and see if I can make one good one...lol. I found rebuild kits for $80 on Ebay.

Before I get that far I found that these turbine housings have 29 cast in them. Good or bad?

Drac0nic

by any stroke of luck do you have a killed one that just has bad bearings and a bad compressor wheel and housing? www.htturbo.com sells upgrade wheels/housings for $200, I'm thinking an H1E/H1C hybrid for my 305. Also, HX-35 turbines will work on these in case you need a waste gated exhaust side that's smaller.

TurboedTPI

Haha, i got one of those holsets too. I know a fleet machanic at a Hostess factory (you know, the makers of Twinkies haha) and their route trucks have the 3.9 cummins and he gave me a turbo from a newer one that had an engine failure that didnt hurt the trubo. I was thinking about putting it on my Jeep Cherokee with a 4.0. A rear mount setup. I already have a bunch of work done to it and its pretty quick but it would be a fun project. I'd run like 5lbs of boost with an FMU. But the only thing is, the jeep has 190,000 miles on the original engine and trans. But these Jeep 4.0 are bullet proof. I bet it would hold up. Ive seen 4.0's go 300,000+ miles.

Drac0nic

WG or non WG? If it's got a waste gate run it otherwise move down to the HX-35 or WH1E 12CM housing, you get internal WG and it'll spool well. It may still be big in a RMT setup, I'm wanting to say that the HY-35Ws are different turbines otherwise that'd be my first choice.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Heh… saying “h1c” is like saying “T04…” there’s a string of different size H1C’s out there, ranging from something smaller then most T3’s and WAY too small for your 4.3 to some of the later ones that are similar, slightly smaller then an HX35, which would probably push 400hp worth of air efficiently. Oh, and while I’m at it, not all H1E’s are bigger then all the H1C’s, and most of the common H1D’s are tiny, smaller then most of the rest.

Judging that it came from a 3.9 I’d put it towards the smaller end of the scale, where some of the bigger H1C’s came off of the 5.9 Cummins which later got the HX35 and then back down to the smaller HY35.

OTOH, a free turbo is a free turbo. If you can get 2 do it, and if they turn out to be tiny then you might be able to run twins. Any pictures of the things? Can you measure the inducer size of the compressor wheel, and if the compressor cover has the “map width enhancement” groove cut in it (allows part of the side of the wheel to work as the inducer making a lot more power out of the same size wheel), that would give us some idea how much air the thing can move. If you read the stamp in the turbine side correctly, that doesn’t quite match up with the rest of this, since a 29cm^2 turbine would be a fairly large turbine, I’d be surprised if it’s really bigger then 12 or 16cm^2.

junkcltr, you said that you measured a/r’s on some and got totally different numbers? Care to share? I’ve tried a couple, and got numbers like I’d expect, larger then a lot of similar garrettes for the normal ones (I’ve got a few odd ones sitting around like an HX52 with a 17cm^2 housing and a couple of tight housing HX40’s). I’ve tried expanding foam in an H1E/HX40 22cm^2 housing, which is pretty common, and then removed it and cut a clean cross section to measure and got right between .97 and .98 A/R.

Dead turbos… as long as the housings and shafts are good you can usually rebuild them if you can get the shafts out of the housings, I’ll take a frozen one that hasn’t contacted the housing sides any day over one that has. Parts are fairly cheap if you only replace what they need, or if you buy a rebuild kit or 2 you’ll find that you’ll quickly have a bin full of parts that allow you to fix a handful of holsets whenever you need to. Rebuilding these things can be an adventure, since loads have been used for long hours of heavy use and you’ll find some things inside them that you wouldn’t expect.

Interchange/upgrade… good luck. Unless you know what you’re doing and have a good stock of parts around you won’t be able to do it. Each series Holset has AT LEAST 2 different center section types, and usually one bolts on and the other attaches with band clamps, and the locations of bosses are different, making interchangeability dependent on what type of center section you have, this is how say the HX40’s can range something like 12lbs in their total weight, they have 4 or 5 different center sections that I’ve seen and they are different lengths, use different attachments… so you can end up with 1 HX40’s with the same size wheels that are 2” in length and 12lbs different, or 2 HX40’s with identical lengths and weights that have different wheel sizes. I’ll give you a hint here that will WAY simplify things… the “w” suffix does refer to an internal wastegate, but not the turbine housing, but the center section casting. You can have a “w” turbo with a non wastegated exhaust casting, you can also have a “w” turbo with a plugged wastegated housing and no wastegate, and I’ve seen a non “w” turbo with a wastegated turbine housing.

Confused yet?

Fun with 4x4’s… heh, I converted mine to use the newer, on the fly actuator in the front axle housing instead of the old thermal deal with the lever operated transfer case setup. I also added a separate switch so I could disable the front axle engagement, effectively making for a 2w Low. Lemme tell you , great for burnouts with 33” tires and 3.42 gears. Even better for blowing up pinion gears. I keep saying that I’m going to slap one of my small housing HX40 turbos on it, but it will probably be an eaton M90 first…

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

What size is the holes on the turbine feeding into the H1E/HX40 that you measured and came up with the .97 A/R?
The 19 marked turbine measured .76 A/R. The 25 marked turbine measured about 1.0 to 1.05 A/R.


EDIT: Have you been keeping track of the 427 ECM stuff at DIY-PROM? They listed a hac for the $0D that is pretty good. I picked up one of those ECMs and looked at it for what it had for controlling a water/alky pump, extra IAT inputs, etc. I remember you wanting to go with a 4L80E and that ECM would do it. It needs a jumper wire on the PROM to do V8 fueling properly. A couple of resistor and transistor changes and it can do 8 port PnH injectors. Two jumper wires and it can do 8 saturated injectors. It looks promising for V8 port EFI.