4playta

I am sure everyone has seen the cheep electric turbo chargers on ebay that dont work, I am also pretty sure everyone has seen the dyno pull video where they stuck a leaf blower in the intake tube while making a pull and actually gaining 20 or 30 HP. Now what if someone was to take an electric leaf blower, seal it tight to an intake and power it with a 12v to 120v inverter? Guys with a Carb or TBI could run a dual snorkel filter housing and actually run two.

I think the idea is actually feasible the only problem I could forsee is controlling the blowers speed, maybe let it run wide open 100% of the time and get a BOV and set it for a ridiculously low pressure like .5 or 1psi of boost so it would open when the butterfly's in the throttle body close and keep from burning up the leaf blowers.

What do you all think? Feasible? Think you would see any performance gains? We are actually thinking about doing something like this on my friends 118hp 4cyl nutless wonder isuzu amigo 4x4.

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

NO.


They just move air. You need something that positively displaces air. not just pushes it around. This topic has been brought up a few times in this forum, do a quick search and you will see lots of reason's it doesn't work.

I have never seen the video you are talking about, but I seriously doubt that dyno video is not some how fudged.

all4u

If anything, they would be a restriction in the intake at higher engine speeds. I'm sure it would somehow help at very low engine speeds but higher in the RPM band, you would see a huge restriction. Also, when you load the alternator down with that kind of electrical load, you will see a decrease in performance.

I have seen a video that there was an increase on I think it was, a Tahoe, but they sprayed nitrous through the leaf blower, into the intake. The gains were from the nitrous, not the actually leaf blower.

I don't shoot down any performance mods, so I will try my best to help you. If you do this in a dual snorkel setup, put the leaf blower in only one side of the intake, this way it can feed from the otherside and not have a restriction. You may also want to take out the air filters to feed more air in. I know that sounds dangerous, but that leaf blower is going to be a restriction in the mid range, on up. If is just air flow dynamics, no way around it.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

agreed, if you read the cfm flow numbers from those, they don't even flow enough air for a stock v8.....it would just be a restriction.

all4u

Please note, the OP wishes to put this on a 4 popper, so it wouldn't be such a restriction on that 4 banger as our V8's.

4playta

Exactly, it probably only sucks about 200cfm at most. As far as the video goes they did a pull on a s10 stock, then a pull with just the leaf blower and it did make more HP and the last pull they ran NO2 in the blower. As far as one just moving air and not positively displacing air I would have to disagree, try holding your hand over the end of one...it wont happen.
Here is the video http://www.streetfire.net/video/Leaf...-Dyno_7514.htm

all4u

Can I ask why we don't see a dyno run before the leaf blower? Also why are the cross over points on the Civic different between dyno charts? Also, do you plan on running a giant extension cord to power a blower, if not, and you go gas, how do you turn it on and off?

I find some problems with this video. Sorry, but also, a car uses a crap load of air, so to positively displace air, you would need alot more air. You are saying that you can't hold your hand over the end of a leaf blower, but a leaf blower is focusing air on a small space, you need more than velocity, you need volume. Can you suck your hand in on the intake side of a leaf blower? See the difference. You are making volume into velocity, but you don't have the volume for positive displacement.

Apeiron

A 2.6 litre engine would displace 200 CFM at a little less than 2200 RPM.

A typical leaf blower draws about 12A at 120V, that's 1440W. Assuming your inverter is a generous 90% efficient, that's 1600W. At 13.8V, that's about 116A, just for the blower. A car alternator is only about 50% efficient on a good day, so you're going to put at least a 3200W load on the engine, which is about 4 HP.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Forget electric, go gas.

all4u

That just looks dumb. For the same money spent on those leaf blowers, the fab work to make it work, and whatever tune, it would have been cheaper to throw a cam at it, or a bottle at it. What a waste of time and money.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Arg... so does a turbo, for that matter, they are very similar in design.

The problem is that they are just too small and use too much power. In most cases you'll need a 2000watt inverter (wired with 2 or 4ga wire...) and you'll only get enough airflow for a few HP on a small engine, one that will have problems with that kind of power draw to feed the inverter. Electric motors and storage just isn't efficient enough to make this worth doing.

Additionally, the videos showing this working are usually involve an engine being sprayed with N2O, which have typically have a problem with keeping the intake air charge going in the right direction (if you've ever watched a carbed N2O engine on a dyno typically you'll see a cloud up above the carb, a little bit of pressure preventing that is worth a few hp).

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

Except that turbo's compress air, they dont' just push air around. Turbo's pull air in from a then send it out through a smaller on, positively moving/displacing the air. Unlike a leaf blower that is just a fan spinning that pushes some air into a tube. Just like was stated here, speeding the air up, not compressing it.

Apeiron

A turbo's not a positive displacement pump, it's just a fan spinning that pushes some air into a tube. Take apart a leaf blower and you'll find a centrifugal fan and a discharge port that's vastly smaller than the intake, too.

IrocZ'85

iTrader: (9)

Correct! A turbo is considered a Non-Positive Displacement pump, as it moves a continuous amount of flow, not a discrete amount. There are some other characteristics that define positive and non-positive displacement pumps as well. Your water pump and any other centrifugal type pump is non-positive.

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

I stand corrected. I guess I should not speak about what my knowledge is limited in. I had assumed Turbo's were positive displacement like blowers are. Hell I wasn't even aware that Superchargers are dynamic until about 5 minutes ago.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You couldn't be more wrong... like I said before, they just speed up the air, blowing it through the housing. The restriction to that flow (the engine that you're trying to blow into) is what creates the boost pressure, ultimately, the diffuser and ducting after the turbo also act to slow down the airflow which also increases pressure, making it more efficient (if you've ever actually looked at the design drawings of a turbo, they often specify an included angle for the ducting attached to the compressor outlet to increase efficiency, of course, I've never actually seen it done by anyone besides ford with their turbo T-birds and related cars).

Roots and other similar screw or lobe type blowers actually compress the air. It makes them interesting to tune with computer controlled setups, since you can usually see the pressure pulses coming out of the supercharger in the datalogs.

3rd gen Will

iTrader: (8)

And if you read the post above yours, I admitted that.

Saabster

iTrader: (2)

No, he's wrong. Turbos are compressors and actually make pressure and airflow. Now that compressed air quickly expands to normal atmospheric pressure if it isn't contained by say the intake manifold. High speed air getting slowed by the compressor housing is what creates the pressure. So the air exiting the turbo compressor is actually compressed.

A roots supercharger by contrast makes no pressure inherently in it's design. It is a pump, not a compressor. It makes pressure by moving more air than the engine can consume.

A screw supercharger is however a compressor. Air exits the housing with an inherent pressure ratio.

Now, there's no reason you couldn't have say a electrically driven centrifugal compressor. Driving a compressor large enough to produce meaning boost could take anywhere from 20 to 60 hp. The problem is generating that much electricity is really beyond the ability of a typical alternator.

As for why leaf blowers are silly, well they aren't exactly built to tight tolerances so you'll like get air bleeding back to the inlet rather than a lot of meaningful boost.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Let's say you went out and installed another alternator. Something like an AD144 at 145 amps. You can get about 2KW or 2.7HP out of it. Run the numbers on a V8 in terms of how much boost you can make with 2.7HP. Worthless. So it doesn't really matter what the compressor is because you can't power it continuously. Or you end up with a truck full of batteries for one pass.

Roc THIS

I did this once to a POS civic . It worked . I will not explain why or how nor do I know why or how it did it worked but it did. Not alot at all but there was a noticable differance . The car also had a cardboard body kit and a bean can (a real baked beans can) and was the biggest waste of metal on this planet , thats why we did it . Please dont do this to a third gen . These cars dont have a very good rep as it is . Dont make it worse.

all4u

Haha, he said bean can! At first I thought you were going to say something racist, but nevermind, that is so funny, and a cardboard bodykit, that should've weighed less than carbon fiber!

On a serious note, maybe it worked on the honda because of it being a smaller engine, but I don't see it working on a big V8, especially a 350. I would still see it as an airflow restriction.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Here's the video everybody's talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7YWT6rX0o
We gotta send this idea to that MythBusters show on the Discovery Channel... see what they have to say.

sakattack28

i can totally see you doing that. this seems like something that would work but youd only really want to with a piece of junk you are screwing around with. i cant see it being a good idea with a nice car you intend to drive a lot.

aleksankazakov

look at my videos I have had several electric superchargers and i even measured the oxygen with a sensor. watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_hWEqKzoaQ

aleksankazakov

How about taking a vacumcleaner motor and attaching the shaft to the shaft of a real turbo ? seems like it should make some discent PSI!