giff

for years i've considered both pieces and afte reading the many posts on the forum it sounds like these two pieces are a no brainer to improve steering response and reduce common f-body rattles.

but...are there any negative issues with the use of these pieces?
other han maybe losing a little ground clearance?

lastly, what brands are considered top quality ?

giff

MdFormula350

i never got either of them, even though i know they help i dont know where i could get the sfc's installed around my way..

any way, the negatives for having sfcs is that you can only install them once and hope you dont mess up!!

if you get them on right then everything else is positive...

as for the stb i dont like the fact i have to cut holes to install one, but once installed and you dont have anything hitting it, it will tighten up the strut towers and keep flex away..

i would get sophn sfcs and an edelbrock stb, also you might as well get a wonderbar from global west suspension..

1MEAN92RS

Steve claims there is no loss of ground clearance with his SFCs and it certainly looks that way by the pictures.

http://www.spohn.net/images/DriverSide1.JPG

http://www.spohn.net/images/PassSide13.JPG

Z28DJP1987

I can only say positive things about using SFC's & STB. They do a great job tieghtening up the car. The only negative is the money
you need to spend on the Parts & Installation, not a DIY job for most people.

Pukka

Absolutely no negative comments about SFC's. Definitely a mod worth doing.

Labor shouldn't cost over $200

REVLIMIT

the only side effect is that your adding more weight to your car. other then that these mods have no other side effects. They are NESSESARY mods for a thirdgen. Its a night and day difference with teh subframe connectors (drag racing, handling, even daily driving) and even after the STB its alot better. If I didnt already have SFC's I'd pick up a set from SPOHN. As for the STB I'd probably pick up a eldebrock or soemthing.

88txiroc

I did a lot of research on the same subject, and came to the conclusion that even if there are negatives, the positives are far greater. I have just ordered my Alston SFC's and an Edelbrock three-point STB. So you have to drill a few holes for the STB, the added stability it worth it. Just make sure to go with name-brand stuff and have a good shop weld the SFC's on while that car is on a drive-on lift. The shop I checked with said that the labor to weld on the SFC's would be about $60-$80, not too bad. You are on the right track, keep researching the boards. Good luck.

Dewey316

the only thing to remeber, is that if you are really worried about keeping your car STOCK, is that the SFCs are a weld in peice. but i assume that if you are asking that isn't a concern of yours.

87transam5.7tpi

the only thing negative that I would have is that it puts the power to the ground ALOT better which in turn has gave me more wheel hop. but it firms up the ride sooooooo much, I have a STB and SFC's if I ever get anoter f-body its getting them first thing.

yankeecarman

iTrader: (9)

Get em both they are a really good mod. Wouldnt do without them.

giff

Thanks for the response !!

It sounds like the installation of the STB's is not as quick/easy as on 4th generation f-body's? Third gen vehicles require some drilling ? can anyone describe exactly what i'll have to do and give me an idea of the time it will take and any special tools i'll need.

thanks,

giff

Jasper89ROC

I have Kenny Browns on my car and i have no complaints about them, stiffened up the car alot.
-Mark

88IROCARMY

Stay away from the MAC SFC, unless you want shid rails under your car. They are thick and easy to install, but they hang out alot

383backinblack

anything that stiffens or strengthens the chassis is good. my subframes (south side machine) are very tough rectangular tubing....they fit up and sit flush with the bottom of the rocker panels, so there is no clearance problems. I know they make the car stronger, but i didnt really notice a difference because ive never taken a car with a stock chassis but SFC's on it and then drove it....

i installed the cage in the car long before the subframes, and that was a phenomenal difference. i couldnt even believe it. almost elminated chassis flex.

when you weld something structural into your car, its important to take the necessary precautions. put the car on jack stands with the suspension LOADED to simulate the load the stuff your welding in will see. also, while the car is on the stands level it front to back and on all four corners.....because if there is any twist present in the chassis, and you weld in sfc's or a cage, its going to there forever.

giff

any drilling required when installing the sfc on a 3rd generation unit?

giff

383backinblack

No drilling required if you use a weld on SFC kit......mine are from south side machine, no drilling required.....they have a website too, i think its www.southsidemachine.com

formul8!!

The Kenny Brown SFC's and Hotchkis STB are the two first things I should of done to my car when I first bought it iver 8 years ago!!!

The weight penalty greatly is dwarfed by the change in the chassis. Mine only weighed 15lbs for the pair and the STB weighs under 10lbs. I think the 25lbs is worth it.

82Trans Man

To all of you running south side machine sfcs did any of you guys get the kit with the lift bars and everything? I was planning on doing mine shortly with this kit (I hear that it feels like driving a drag car all the time but I dont care) and above I was reading a post stating they are non adjustable and are semi weak and was wondering what you guys are running for power through you car if you have them and how you like them. Thanks James

giff

About the issue of "pre-loading" the chasis/suspension prior to welding on SFC's.

How do you do this when putting the vehicle on a lift to weld the parts in? The car will be sitting 6 feet in the air on the sub frame with the wheels-a-hangin' ???

i can definately understand the need to limit any chasis flex/twist as the sfc's are welded on.

giff

383backinblack

I talked about the south side stuff to a few people on here.....they are great, and ya i have the whole kit installed on the car. the lift bars are amazing, incredible traction and weight transfer. The ride is a bit rough but its not too bad really. they arent adjustable, but there is nothing about them thats weak, all the components are heavy gauge steel with high quality welds. check out my signature and my ride page, the car is making some good horsepower, with alot more to come.

To answer giff, if your gonna lift the car by the subframe on a frame lift, you are going to need to load the suspension somehow.....perhaps with large frame stands or something of that nature. Otherwise there isnt a guarantee you arent gonna run into a loaded chassis when its back on the rubber again. Heres a pick of the subframes at the crossmember and the lift bars....(the brown is undercoating, and the rest of the kit comes powder coated black)

giff

Just so i understand - if i use a drive on lift (instead of a frame lift) i can weld them on as the vehicle sits and i should be ok?

thanks for the help.

giff

383backinblack

yup that would be the best and easiest way to the job right.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I bought a pair of Spohns boxed powdercoated SFCs. Shop charged me 140 or 160 I think for welding... but that was welding in SFCs, reallocation brackets, and installing new LCAs for me....

I absolutely love them, no downsides from what I can see.

3rdGenBlackBird

I live at the top of a hill so I take tons of full turns everyday. I think I've read somewhere on these boards that with SFCs you could actually lift a wheel off the ground on steep driveways or something like that. Has anyone experienced this?

I'd love to tighten up my cornering but don't want to be lifting a wheel into the air for more than a split second. I have an open diff too, so I definately don't want my only drive wheel off the ground.

I also back into my steep and lopsided driveway. (I can't really explain the way roads turn or rise.) And I already have trouble doin' that if my tire is wet. Will I have any (more) trouble if I get SFCs? I'd still like them though; there aren't many straight roads in my city, so better cornering would be a blast.

Dewey316

yes that is me, i have had my car parked on 3 wheels a couple of times.

dont' worry about it, trust me, the SFC's are the BEST mod you can do. period. if you posted that to try to get someone to talk you out of SFC's it isn't going to happen. do note that these 3 wheel park jobs were VERY extreme situations, not your average lopsided driveway. usualy the suspension articulation will keep all 4 tires touching the ground.

82camaro

Suspension movement will help if you don't have a rear bar or have a small front and rear sway bars. Mine are both aftermarket. After the SFC install, my old 82 will rock back and forth on 2 wheels when I pull into a steep(at my parents house) driveway. Without the powertrax locker I would roll backwards (posi will get you in the driveway too). So yes, in your case it will be a problem.

SLP IROC-Z

iTrader: (1)

i just orderd Alstons and i will be duplicating spohn SFCs when i can get some rectangular stock. my car seems to be pretty stiff right now, i get 3 wheel action up my friends driveway everytime, but i still hear creaking. i cant wait to get these SFCs in and see what it does.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

The Hotchkis STB is a NICE piece. It made a decent improvement in steering!

tataconka

What are some of the parts needed to put in the SFC, or does it come with the parts you need. Welded style

Dewey316

a welder

Goumba T

I still get a bit of creaking with the Alston set. I was kind of disappointed at first but I don't pay it much mind now.

The other thing the guy told me (done by a guy who specializes in frames) is that it does not reduce the likelihood of stress cracks on hardtops (contrary to what I was told by other owners). I had one anyway so not too worried.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

The Spohn subframe connectors are awesome! We had a set welded on Redriaf's car by a muffler shop (they charged like $35, it din't take long at all), and it tightened everything up considerably. The only thing that had to be bolted on with them was at the rear, since they pick up on the rear LCA mounting bolt. Ours were done on a drive-on style lift like most muffler shops have; I didn't feel like jacking the car high enough, and worrying about evenly loading the suspension.

We initially ran an Edelbrock strut tower brace, and while it tightened things up a lot it did hit the hood (clears Camaros ok from what I understand, doesn't clear a stock hood or her aftermarket one either), even after modifying it a good bit. We recently switched to a BMR brace, and I like it a lot better. There is still a slight amount of rubbing (I think her RA1 hood's inner bracing is the problem), but not nearly as much as the Edelbrock.

chymos

Hmm, which STB gives what sort of hood and engine clearance on a 'bird?

GTA4ME

I put in an Edelbrock 3 Point STB and it rubs a little on the hood. I would definately go with a BMR on a bird. The BMR works nicely in a TPI bird. I will probably switch mine out.

Trans_AM_88

does the spohn STB rub on birds?

86IROCNJ

Does Spohn have a STB out yet? I did not think so. Not until next year i think i read.

Trans_AM_88

oh yeah

well what carbed STB will not rub on firebirds hoods?

semiller26

GTA4ME my BMR 3pt. STB also rubs the hood on my bird. Does anyone know of one that doesn't?

86IROCNJ

For carbed applications, isn't that it? Any others like Kenny Brown or something? Sorry guys.

AGood2.8

What's the harm if it rubs a little- mine does touch barely , but doesn't make noise or anything else harmful. Look on the brite side- there is more support under the hood for all those hOOter girls to climb on.

The only neg thing about STB's and SFC's is the excessive tire wear you get from wanting to drive faster.

drop-top IROC

That, and all of the new interior creaks and rattles that you never knew you had as a result of the chassis and subframe being tighter.

86IROCNJ

I thought that was the point? To stiffen the whole car up. People say that the creaks go away!? Guess not?

drop-top IROC

Well, yes and no. It certainly stiffens up the car, but now I can feel every bump in the road and so can my dash, driver's side door, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a must do upgrade for any third gen but it also created a few more 'projects' for me...
(tightening up the dash, fixing the window channel, door alignment, etc.)

Goumba T

I thought that too till I brought mine in to have the SFCs installed and the guy told me it may even make some creaks worse.

MrDude_1

the creaks in the chassis and parts from everything bending goes away...


then you get slight rattles... but they can be tightened and you're done..

think of it like this... lets say the dash... for years its been twisted slightly and its now loose... now you have your SFCs on and all the twisty creaky noises are gone... and now you notice a slight rattle of the dash...

just tighten the dash, or put new felt between plastic parts, ect... and one by one you can now elimanate any remaining rattles.

then you're done and creak free.

86IROCNJ

Got ya! I do not have sub frame connectors so i can not be the judge of that. I have always heard that is how it goes though. I thought that post was to mean something else, like create other problems or road noise, something like that. later guys