o2b18

Hello,

I just did my first Autocross Sunday, Had a BLAST! My ten year old kid rode shotgun.
The old Camaro didn't do too bad, but I want to improve it, but on a budget (mortgage, kids, etc.) I think the first thing is tires. What size would be best for the stock 1991 RS 15" rims? Second would be Shocks?

Thanks!

Mark

Dewey316

What class do you plan to run in?

best option, would probably to pick up some stock GTA wheels, and toss some A or R rated tires on them.

Shocks/struts, go with the koni's.

Any mods beyond that, we would need to know what class you want to run, so we don't give you a mod, and then have it bump you into SM or CP or something crazy.

o2b18

I'm running P215/70R15 now, but I don't want to replace the wheels. What's the widest tire that would fit the stock rim? a 50 series?

Thanks

Dewey316

the problem is, there aren't very many performance tires in the 15 sizes needed.

FWIW, on my 15's, i have 235/60/15

CrazyHawaiian

You got a few choices but consider this: the 15x7 wheel really limits the widths of the tires you can run, especially with smaller sidewalls (which I think its a good idea for what you want to do). So you can get a new set and it will be better, but its not going to be as much of an improvement as it would be with a 8" or 9" wide wheel and matching wider tire setup. So before dropping the $$ on new tires for the stock 15's, consider saving up for a bit, buying some wider wheels (whatever diameter you wish) and then selling the stocks to recoup some of the $$. You will end up spending a bit more in the long run, and it will take more effort, but the results will be worth it.

To look for some tires for your stock 15x7's, goto tirerack.com and search by tire size. You should have a good selection within the ranges 205-215 width, 50-55 sidewall. Mix and match and compare the ones you like. You wont have any choices for 225 or wider unless you goto a bigger sidewall. Also keep in mind the overall diameter of the wheel, changes in overall specs (wheel+tire) might cause your speedo to read wrong.

Cheap upgrades, first I would say bushings. They are cheap and if the stocks are shot it makes a huge difference. Next would probably be shocks/struts and springs. If you have DIY skills you could do alot for cheap (welding, etc). I dont do any of that myself, but the fabrication forums would be a good place to read if you're into that.

Souseless

Shocks are a huge improvement. Koni is about $650 for the set so that may not fit your idea of cheap. Bilstien would be another good option at around 400. Tires are a big difference maker but find a set of 16" wheels. I bought a set for $100 that were aluminum. A nice sticky tire for autocross is Falken Azenis and there is one from Sumhito they both have a 160 tread wear rating. Great grip but they will not last long. I have Hoosier tires that I expect to get 8 events out of (not at all cheap). These two upgrades will allow you to stay in the FS class (if you are SCCA)
Welcome to autocross, drag racing is for fast cars and autocrossing is for fast drivers. I read somewhere that an autocross driver encounters turns 7 times faster than an F1 driver. not speed but elapsed time.

o2b18

Tire rack has (4) Fuzion ZRi 205/55WR15

delivered to my house for 275 bucks....Will they fit the stock RS 15" rims, I think they're 7" wide?

Thanks,

Mark

CrazyHawaiian

Yeah it'll fit but your overall dimensions of your wheels will be smaller than stock. So your speedo will read off, and the car will sit lower (which is a good thing hehe).

Forshock 85TA

Get 225/60-15

They are widely available and wider than stock, a little shorter, maybe 1% difference at 60

o2b18

....ok another goofy question. What about air pressure?
At my first (defintely not last) and only Autocross, I ran 40psi front, left rear and 35 right rear. Is this about right for P215/70R15 tires?

Thanks,

Mark

Souseless

It will be different for different tires. use shoe polish to see how much the tire rolls over. adjust based on what you see

JDubya18

I have 245s in the back on my 15"s

RTFC

The very best thing you could do es[pecially if you are on a budget is to pick up some spare cheapo rims and mount some AutoX "R" rated tires on them. The last thing you want to do is burn up your street tires running autoX and the "r"s will render you much faster times.

I am actually taking my car out on the 26th of june to run it again after doing it once with this car about two years ago. I had raced autoX for years in a Vette and knew this Camaro would not be the most fun on street rubber compared to racing tires, but I took it out for a shakedown run to see what it would do compared to other cars its class. Tires got greasy about 1/2 way through the course and overheat on edge (this is a V6 so straightline power overheating is not an issue, they overheat from cornering). I plan to take it out again only because some locals are meeting there as a bunch and want me to go. Not looking forward to it again on street tires because it just is not fun compared to racing rubber. I expect to really have a problenm this time becuase the car stops so much quicker now with the new brakes. I bet I over heat the street tires only 1/4 of the way into the run this time out. The car is much better then its tires and it will not see its potential- And I run one of the best street tires money can buy.

Get racing tires if plan on doing it often. You'll need them for any kind of quality run regardless of suspension work.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

What are the best tires money can buy?

RTFC

To me the best tires money can buy (factory size on factory rims 245/50-16) is a tire that excels in both "dry" AND "wet" conditions. Emphisis on "wet" when street driven even in dry whether when you can go around a corner and hit a wet patch from sprinkers or such unexpectedly.

The best all around tires are the discontinued Firestone FireHawk SZ50EP's and the current Goodyear F1 GS-D3's. Michelin Pilots are prbably the best tire in dry, but I do not like their wet grip and they are not a forgiving tire, very pricey also for what you get and wear fast.

Personally, I am hoping something new and bettercomes along real soon to choose from. I may end up throwing a set to Toyo proxes RA-1's on for about a year for fun, but I'll have to watch the water.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Huh… a lot of people consider the pilots “the best that money can buy” but for the most part, they’re awesome tires for someone that never goes past 9/10ths. They are very difficult to drive on the edge and impossible to recover from going past the edge. I suppose that their lack of life or durability shouldn’t be a bitch if we add in the “money can buy” part, since if money is no object it’s no big deal to go get another set, but I would definitely rate them low on the value scale.

Goodyear F1’s (and goodyears in general), more then most other tires, are much better for their first 1/3 then they are for their last 2/3. Also, a good tire if you do not try to put down any real power while pushing them. Somewhat scary if you’re trying to put down some real power, the backs turn greasy really fast.

SZ50’s… no bitches there… they were getting to be a bit outdated but still better then the other choices. On a somewhat overpowered car these on the front and Nitto 555r’s are high on my list of choices. The nitto DR’s are happy dealing with power being put down by the rear axle while still handling well (and doing well in the rain as long as there is no standing water). I’ve always wanted to try Nitto DR’s on all 4’s, I’ve seen a few autox type events won with them on all four corners.

Then there are the oddballs… like pep boys futura ultra Z’s (awesome straight line traction, about ½ way between normal street radials and DR’s, good to great handling but slightly creepy in the rain: they feel like they’re sticking hard till suddenly you realize that you’re going in a different direction then what you’re facing) and McCreary dirt track tires (dot rated I think, would have to look to be sure, handle well though slightly odd if you’ve never driven on bias ply race tires, wear well, almost as good in bad weather as good, they even work well in the snow and give straight line traction that’s better then all but the biggest, stickiest DR’s, but look hokey and are only available in tall sizes for small rims.)

RTFC

The topic was autoX and overall handling (meaning cornering ,braking and acceleration qualities), we were not talking about drag radials or drag racing.

Most Goodyears suck, sorry to be blunt- but its a fact. They are generally a long wearing tire. Goodyear finally after years got it right again with the F1 GS-D3's (not to be mistaken for the standard F1's).

Fusions are budget tires with harder tread compounds than the SZ50's. Futura's? when was the last time I saw them ever reveiwed as a performance tire- again budget looks and quality of materials. Here's a reveiw that should sum things up about Futura Z's: "The Ultra Z's virtually matched the (Goodyear) Eagles in the slalom..." "...stopping distance was another near dead heat. The Futura's taking the category by one foot." -Motor Trend, July 1999." Goodyear Eagles suck. They are as bad as BFG Radial T/A's. Same with all Nitto trires in 245/50-16's.

The Firehawk SZ50EP to date was the best tire ever made. Why they discontinued it? Lack of sales due to the firestone reputation ont the troulbe with Ford SUV's- that was a good tire put on too heavy of a vehicle.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Um, yea… if you’ve got a v6 under the hood… My wimpiest car that I regularly deal with in these terms makes about 400lb/ft at the wheels and has 3.50 gears, it goes up from there, roots blown with 3.73’s, and assorted combinations with 4.11’s. Every one of these cars will burn the tires coming off a turn on an autox in second gear, even if you wait for the straight. And do it once, take a couple of hard turns and that’s it, the back end of the car is like it’s on ball bearings. The only answer is MUCH larger back tires or better compounds.

As far as ACTUAL drag racing, it doesn’t really matter, my experience is that typically a good driver will run roughly the same times with the crappiest tire as they will with the best street radial, there is enough that can be done with the actual driving that the tires are a much smaller issue then they are at an autox.



Goodyears suck… given, for years their high po, dry weather Z rated tires could be beaten by others’ AS performance tires. The GS-D3’s are better when new but go away VERY QUICKLY. All are worthless to downright scary in acceleration.



first, most magazine reviews are less then worthless.

Second, try a set before you condemn them. I keep coming by almost new ones for free thrown in with other things, on wheels I buy or “just take them, I don’t have anything they fit.” (seems like a lot of people buy them as “cheap tires that last me till I…” so they’re common used in good shape) And every time I’m really surprised at how well they do. My brother actually ran a set at the last autox that we went to and did much better in a much less well balanced car then I did on some goodyears (my fastest was tied with his slowest run). From the video he was clearly having suspension balance issues (too stiff rear, to soft front) where I was having tire issues.



For the most part Goodyear eagles are worse then BFG radial TA’s. The nittos that I’ve used have all been pretty good but I’ve never used 16’s, mostly 275/40/17’s, 315/35/17’s and 275/50/15’s (and matching front sizes, in most cases either 275/40 or 245/45/17)

o2b18

Thanks for the help everybody! I picked up a set of P235 60 R15 Goodyear F1 RWL.....'cause I like the Goodyear logo! (old school)
got them thru Discount Tires $73 ea.