BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

saw a kit for doining a coilover kit for the front or my z. http://paracing.com/product_info.php...17aa7939726a5a
sounds like a cheap price for doing something like that, anyone using it? how do you like it, and how does it ride?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

all that kit comes with is the spring, threaded sleeve and nuts, nothing to re-enforce the strut tower, it just uses the stock strut mount and it will fail. go with spohn

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

spohns getting twice the money for it. it cant be that hard to make the brackets to reinforce that. is it worth me even doing a coilover kit or should i just put on the moroso springs in the front. need some weight transfer.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I have that kit from PA racing. It's fine for street/strip and nothing else. I wouldn't recommend it for auto-x though. If you want to save money the PA racing kit is just pieces from the AfCO catalog. You will save roughly 100.00 buying the pieces

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

weight transfer can be done with conventional springs.

Spohns kit has a plate for under the strut tower and a custom sturt mount to replace the factory one, thats why it costs more, its not just a "bracket"

spohns

pa's kit has these, and a cone for the top

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

looks like it is working for you what springs did you have last? about all i do it street/strip.

Guest

Spohn's doesnt reinforce the strut tower either, at least not in any useful regard that I know of.

stiletto

i have the PA racing coil overs and wont go back to big springs. and i have the adjustable caster and camber plates also

Shagwell

you can't logically run the PA kit w/ our factory strut mounts. Do you think hanging the entire front end weight off a piece of non-reinforced rubber is a good idea? - There's some pics on this board of guys with their fender wrinkled from the flex. Without some sort of added structure to the wheel house, it will cause problems, even in drag race only apps. That's why alston's stop producing the vari-struts for our cars.

Shagwell

our factory plates are adjustable. The problem is they are only a rubber mount, thus they tear if used to hold the weight of the car.

Guest

But the fender wrinkling from flex has absolutely nothing to do with the rubber in the strut mount, thats just a different issue. You should also point out that the single person that had issues was running out of suspension travel and physically hammering his shock tower.

stiletto

correct, but mine have 2 adjusting points on them.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

so the pa kit im looking at is far better then mororso trick springs?

stiletto

i would get them

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

how is the adjustability on it? what do you have tied up in it after installing it? with all the little odds and ends?

AZZ28

Just want to share my opinions.

Up front, coil-over suspensions should only be used with a dual control-arm and shock system, something the third-gens do not have. The stock set-up utilizes the front sub-frame to support the springs and subsequently the vehicles weight. These after-market kits reposition the weight load to the body of the vehicle which to me does not seem appropriate.

There are a lot of guys that cut awesome sixty-foot times using the stock strut and spring set-up that the third-gen F-body, fox body mustangs and many other cars utilize. In my opinion a coil-over kit is not the best solution to improving your race times, there are a lot of other ways to better invest your money and properly dial in your car.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

ok so what do i need to get then?

chikn305

iTrader: (2)

Hey 1badrz28 how long are the springs on your pa kit. I am trying to piece together the kit from a local supplier that has afco's full line.

stiletto

i run 12" 130lbs springs

Shagwell

nope. Spring rate is spring rate to most extent, but you can get more stored energy out of the larger factory coils. - Most guys running coil-overs due it for the slight weight advantage in a car that doesn't need a lot of sprung weight transfer.
----------
Yep. The way I wrote that didn't spell that out as I should have. The factory mounts won't handle the weight, the rubber will just tear out. The fender-well flex is due to the lack of needed support to carry the front weight of the car.
Not a single person issue, that's why alston's dropped the vari-shock bolt-in for our cars.

chikn305

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the reply

Guest

Mind listing the others? I'm going to do it on my car, but it wont see much use anymore.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

spring rate is spring rate but he is running a 130lb spring when the trick springs are 220. wouldnt that mean that his front end on going to come up faster?

drperformance

iTrader: (5)

If you have the same spring weight on both a coil over set up and a factory set up the coil overs would produce more lift/ better traction every time. Reason being is the location of the exerted spring pressure on the a arms. Think of it as a torque problem or a see saw, the longer the lever arm or distance from the fulcrum the more torque (torque=force*length of lever arm). So by appling the same force/spring rate further out on the a arm the more lift you will get.

I am running Spohns pro drag coil overs, and I believe they are 14" long and 150lbs. Also to get the most lift out of the front end you want the longest weakest spring possible, which will give you the most potential or stored energy.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

so basically the lower the number the better the transfer?

drperformance

iTrader: (5)

Think of it this way, a hard stiff lowering spring will not compress as much in the car therefore not having as much stored energy. But a say 14" soft drag spring will get you that same ride height because it is a much longer spring and also compress more resulting in more potential energy.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

so not really the lower the number but its combined with a longer spring?

AZZ28

drperforamce,

I think the way you worded this is incorrect and I wonder if the potential energy in the spring is even significant. If you load a soft or a hard spring both will deform to store the same potential energy for the same load, the difference is the soft spring will deform more.

I think that the reason the lower rate springs are effective in drag racing is that they allow the suspension to load/deform more easily thus transferring the weight/force more effectively.

drperformance

iTrader: (5)

potential energy of a spring:

Us=(.5)(k)(x)^2

where k=spring rate and x=displacement

So for example if you use a 12" drag spring that is rated at 175lbs/inch that compresses to 7" at ride height you would have:
Us=(.5)(175)(5)^2
Us=2187.5 inch pounds

And if you used a 10" tall road racing spring rated at 350lbs/inch that compressed to 7" at ride height you would have:
Us=(.5)(350)(3)^2
Us=1575 inch pounds


Any way you look at it the drag springs have more potential or stored energy which results in better weight transfer to the rear wheels.

AZZ28

drperformance

Thanks for the polite correction. I was not remembering the correct exponent on the spring rate. Anyways I guess I will have to be a little more thorough as I try and figure this stuff out.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

going to relocate my battery to the back. is it worth it? im gonna do it first and then new springs or the coilover kit.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I have 175lb springs up front.I believe they are 10 inch springs. Also, don't forget to add the 1.5 inch pieces of round tubing to the top of the spring mount. Installation should be under and hour if you are good with hand tools. I bought mine for the weight savings. One stock spring weighs more than the whole kit and one tubular a arm roughly. in the picture below, I didn't have them installed yet.

Yes, relocate the battery if you have the means to. Takes the weight off the nose

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

planning on doing it before i go back to the track. just need that little bit for the 10.99

nyytrousboy

I would recomend the PA Racing Caster/Camber plates. As for the strut towers being weak I've never seen a coil over kit itself cause a strut tower to either flex or bend. Also the mustang is pretty much the same design and i'd hate to say how many coil over mustangs there is out there today. 11sec if you need more info on these let me know.

stiletto

xx11seczxx that is jason from PA Racing, take his advise.

Shagwell

The amount of stored energy in a spring is dependent on the length of compression. As other have said, a taller spring with a lesser rate may compress to the same ride height as a stiffer srpings with shorter height, but it has more stored energy due to it's length.
- A 10" 200# rate spring compressed to 5" has lifting force for 5"
- A 15" 150# spring compressed to 5" has a lifting range of 10"

mustangs have a very square and almost vertical strut tower. Much more suited to holding up weight than our fat rounded bulbs.

SageMoonblade

I am kinda sure this is a dead thread but after reading through it I must say this, is it really that hard to change the rubber mount and reinforce the strut tower? Seems to me that anyone with some decent welding ability and time could do the work. Also I must point out id the factory type mount holds that weight with a strut should that same mound be fine while holding the weight from a coilover? Weight is weight right?

stage20

iTrader: (3)

ill say after going to a coilover setup, its not going to set the world on fire.
if you need adjustability, thne great.
what i had worked, this works.
there was no need to change, imo.
saved 16 pounds total which is a plus.
hind sight......

ls six

In stock form the strut tower only sees load from the strut during compression. The load it sees is only the resistance from the strut as it damps the motion of the wheel assembly.

At rest the strut tower only sees the small amount of load from the strut trying to extend due to internal pressure.

The actual weight of the car is supported by the springs and that load is transmitted directly in to the frame rails.

Except for the fact that the strut locates the wheel relative to the car you could remove it and the spring would support the car with practicaly no change in ride height.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

hahaha. sounds like what all by buddies use to do to their lowered mazdas and nissan trucks. they were so far in the dirt, the shocks were bottomed out anyway.
rip them out and ride on the torsion bar and leaf spring.
man, the 90's was filled with rattlin and shakin mini trucks.
good thing for airbags nowadays.

ls six

Dont take the folowing the wrong way but...

if they put a little more effort in to the trucks they would have turned out a lot better.

Air bags wouldnt have fixed the problem because they still need pretty much the same space to work as shocks/struts do.

Either setup on a slammed truck would need frame notches and relacated shock mounts.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

everybody is 16 once.
all most cared about is sitting low and having your truck seesaw down the road.

tbpeters90

ok im getting ready to redo my suspension on my 91 rs its not a strip car just a fun car to drive it would be awesome to have the best handling in turns ...... So the question is coil over with wonder bar or just put new kyb g-2 shocks and struts on it

stage20

iTrader: (3)

i would stick with a spring and strut setup over the coilover, but i wouldnt put the kybs on the top of the list.