n1ffer

Hi all. Need some help. I have the entire front end off the car (springs, struts, strut mounts, sway bar, control arms, spindles, tie rods, etc., basically everything except the pitman arm) and am trying to install a set of Moog part# 5608 springs.

I put the control arms back in and I am pretty sure the correct one on each side - the bump stop and the sway bar link hole on the side of the control arm facing toward the front or grill of the car, right??

I monkeyed around with a spring compresser to put the new spring in and am having no luck. I put in new Energy Suspension poly control arm bushings and am pretty sure the 5608 spring part number is correct. The car is a 1983 Trans Am with a/c and the WS6 suspension/p215/65/15 tires. Autozone, Rock Auto and Advance all state that the 5608 is the correct part number.

When I lay or set the original spring next to the new Moog spring the Moog is a few inches longer. I figured this means the Moog is a softer spring until loaded and must compress to the same height. Is that a safe assumption??

And after 2 hours of trying I can't get this Moog in. The spring compressor I am using has two hooks on the top and a kind of v-shaped bottom plate. I can't get the bottom lower than the second coil or it interferes with the control arm and doesn't allow the spring to seat in the arm.

In that second from bottom position I cannot compress the spring far enough because the bolt/rod on the compressor ends up protruding from the coil and hits the upper coil mount body area and at that point the spring is still not compressed enough to get into the control arm.

Has anybody run into this when installing stock type aftermarket springs??

Do I need to try another style of compresser tool?

If I can't get the Moogs in does anyone have input if using the old springs would make that much difference? The car has 130k miles, so I am assuming the springs must not be as good as a new set of replacement springs, however maybe I should just use the old ones? I hate to use the old ones as I don't plan on ever changing this suspension around again. The car only gets about 5k miles per year now, so this is it for this type of repair I hope.

I am nearly 40 and have no interest in lowering the car and/or using other than stock springs so it is either find a way to get these Moogs in or reuse the old ones.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Todd

slow_90firebird

I have no practical experience, but I will try my best to guess your problems...

Over the years of production, thirdgens came with tons of different springs form the factory. Not only did they change the spring rates / sizes over the years, and between the different levels of handling like z28, IROC, WS6, base model. You could get the same year, make, model, car and it might have slightly different springs based on things like the options the car had. A/C, power accessories, all change weight. That is why all 4 springs are CCS (computer selected springs) and are listed in the RPO sheet. As I understand it, the moog springs are a factory replacement, however they are designed to work sufficiently on any car of that suspension type, i.e. RS vs. IROC.

In addition, your factory springs are not gonna be like the brand new ones, because they have been holding the weight of a car up for 20+ years now. Not to mention the milage adds wear on top of that...

I have read a few posts on here where members complained that the moog springs do indeed sit somewhat higher than the factory springs. However, from what I have seen, that is usually in the rear. It wouldnt be far fetched to guess that the front will be higher too though.

As for the installation, there have been posts on here a few times about the difficulty of the install:

-one member was able to get them in, by using a long piece of lumber jambed between the strut tower and the ceiling of the garage. This kept the car from lifting up, as he used a floor jack to jack the control arm up with the spring inside of it.

-another member suggested doing it the way that GM technicians used to do it back in the day. Put the car up on a lift. Then secure the car down to the lift arms using chain or straps. position a shop jackstand (the really tall ones) under the control arm, and slowy let the lift down untill you can bolt it all up.

something I had thought of trying, depending on where I could run a strap... I was thinking if I ever get this problem I might try running a strap from the body of the car, under the floor jack between the wheels! I bet that would be a safer way to keep the car from lifting while you jack up the control arm...

good luck

n1ffer

I appreciate your help.

To clarify:

I have the car on jack stands and the engine and trans are in, so I don't think I will be lifting the car up off the stands.

The problem I am having is that I can't even get the spring in the upper seat area and the lower seat area at the same time to even start jacking up the control arm.

I have it jacked up high enough that the control arm can travel all the way down until it bottoms out at against the crossmember. I can get the spring in the upper seat but when I bring the control arm up I can't get it over the "hump" in the lower spring seat area.

If I put the spring in the lower seat area I can't get it angled enough to go in the upper seat area it gets hung up on an angle and won't go over the upper "hump" area.

That is why I am thinking that maybe the compressor I am using that the center rod hits the upper mount area before I can compress the spring enough might be my problem.

I have read through a bunch of spring threads, but I haven't yet found one that will help me out.

Thanks again for the help and to anyone that can offer more!

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Use an internal compressor with "hooks" at both ends. Use a 4" pipe nipple at the bottom to take up the slack (so to speak). The following link has info and a pic of the aforementioned compressor:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rs-do-you.html

JamesC

n1ffer

Are you saying that you use the 4" pipe nipple as a spacer of sorts? You thread/push the rod through that first and then thread the rod through the with the spacer into the compressor to make the rod effectively shorter at the top as it compresses?

And I must be some kind of idiot as I missed that thread and it is only a few weeks old!!!!!! LOL

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Yes.

JamesC

n1ffer

Thanks! I am going to go hunting for a better tool. I really appreciate the help!

Fords88Bird

How did the install go, I'll be doing the same soon when I put either the 5660 or 5662 in my '88. By the way I'm 47 and am always looking forward to lowering what I get LOL. Later.

572_Rat

I had the same problem with my spring compressor, I cut off 3 or 4 inches off the thread rod, after that I had no problem

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I've done many things to my car (check my Car Details), but I've never been tempted to lower the car. IMO, there are just too many negatives involved--I do, however, like the look, but look isn't enough of an incentive for me personally.

JamesC

572_Rat

James why not consider dropped spindles, they take the negetives out of the steering geometry problems

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

My negatives have more to do with fitting a jack under the car, with speed bumps and drainage ditches, and with whacking this, that, and the other thing with the front spoiler (not to mention the air damn).

JamesC

n1ffer

Fords88 - I spent two days of hassle and used three different spring compressor tools and finally one let go and smashed my hand and index finger. I took fours days off to heal and decided that since my corporate car show and the Woodward Dream Cruise are this week, I would just use the old springs and call it a day.

The old springs went in a lot easier than the Moogs. Using spacers, having full range to move the control arms, different angles - nothing really worked that well. I am not a novice mechanic and I would have to say it was one of the most frustrating things I have endured. I personally will never try it again. The risk of injury is too great and I am extremely lucky that all I did was slightly fracture my index finger. Sparks flew when that let go - that is how hard it came out.

There is a new thread out there about somebody doing this without a compressor. I am not sure that it would work with the Moog. It is just too tall. Enough spacers on the bottom of the compressor might allow you to compress it enough and keep the rod from hitting the upper mount.

Be Carefull!!!!

Fords88Bird

Wow, that could have gotten real ugly, hope u healed up fine. Whenever I take out coils I'm usually replacing with shorter ones, the 5608 are bout 15" free height, I'm puttin the 5660 or 5662 which are bout 13" and may trim off one turn to get the car height I want. That should eliminate a lot of initial tension when goin in. Later.

eeeeeefirebird

iTrader: (3)

the easiest way to install the front springs in these cars is to completely remove the control arm from the crossmember, make sure the spring is seated correctly in the control arm, and your spring isolators are in place, then place a floor jack underneath the spring seat on the control arm. with the engine and trans in the car, you will not lift the car up doing this. but without them, the car WILL lift off the jackstands. slowly jack up the control arm until you get the spring compressed. you can place a jackstand under the balljoint area of the control arm, then another jack where the control arm bolts to the kmember, jack it up enough to put your bolts through, and your done. except you gotta bolt in the strut to the upper mount, or your tie rod ends and your sway bar, or the control arm will swing back down.

Trick414

I replaced my springs about a month ago with the Moogs.

Ive done them many different ways over the years.

Here's what worked easily this time.

Have the strut and spindle attached to the ball joint. It doesn't have to be all the way seated on the ball joint, just so the nut is down about flush with the top of the ball joint stud.

Use two floor jacks under the control arm near the bushing points (on the inboard side). You can use one jack, but two makes it easier to adjust each side independently to help get the bushing bolts in place.

Manuever the spring into the pocket from the inboard side.

Run your spring compressor up inside the spring and get it set. Make sure to use a 4 inch or so piece of pipe to act as a spacer on the compressor. This piece will be toward the floor and underneath the bottom spring hooks. Basically, you are making the shaft shorter so when you compress the spring, the shaft doesn't try to ride up into the upper strut mount.

Start to compress the spring by using an airtool. I don't recommend a big ratchet because you of the side forces you put on the tool. Too easy to pull off jackstands or rotate the spring around while you are trying to get it all lined up. Plus, it takes forever.

As you compress the spring, follow with the floor jacks so that the spring doesn't have anywhere to go if the tool lets go.

The key here is to use an airtool to tighten the compressor. Make sure to follow with the floor jacks in case of tool failure.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I'm hoping that you managed to get your springs in by now, but to make it easier for the next person, the easiest way is to skip the spring compressor and just use a jack under the control arm with the strut/ball joint bolted up first.

I've done this dozens of times and usually if you get things lined up close enough before starting you can get things positioned with just the single jack and a pry bar or big screwdriver. Occasionally you’ll run into something that just doesn’t want to line up right and I’ve used a second bottle jack to jack the pivot into position. You will sometimes run across some very stiff springs that will lift the front end of the car off the jackstands doing it this way, but every time that’s happened I’ve managed to get it to come back down by jacking the opposite back corner of the car to transfer more weight over that front corner and further compress that spring.
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BTW, I did try to do this with a spring compressor once, and it was just a big PITA and took a lot longer.

Fyrstorm

iTrader: (1)

I used a spring compressor, one of the internal kind. I had to cut off about 5-6" of thread like 572_Rat did, for it to completely sit inside the spring. The compressor I had had one hook shorter than the other for both the top and bottom "grips". So when you compressed it with the two short arms towards the motor, it angles the spring towards the seat. Had to make sure the bottom of the spring would line up with the seat on the control arm.

I was cursing just like you, took me probably just as long as you without the injury. I finally decided to use my air compressor and wrench to close the spring, this worked perfectly.