dvardaman85

i have a sound, kinda like road noise or a bad bearing. i dont know! i have replaced the calipers rotors bearings pads lower ball joints and the little plasticy rubbery red things you put in the steering leenkeges from auto zone. also new tires and rims. noise stays!!! faster you go louder it gets. and sort of a spining like revolving sort of a noise. any ideas the junk yard says i can keep the new rims and tires and they will still give me 600 bones. may just scrap it

84olmpcboy

Might be the driveshaft u joints. Im not sure how to check that but its not to much $$$ and its not gunna hurt anything. My dads truck had a winding noise so we replaced the u joints and now all the noise is gone.

dvardaman85

hm i jacked the rear end up just now and put it in drive to see if it is for sure in the front end. sure enough when i put it in drive and the tires started going, no noise! so that should say no joints or shafts or engine or transmission right? i mean if all that was moving just not my car it must be somewhere in the front end right

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Please scrap it and sell me the 2055's!!! Just kidding, but seriously if you scrap it i will buy them.

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

don't scrap it. just hold on someone will help.

redbird92'

iTrader: (1)

I second that

1brd2brd3brd4

Is the noise only when you are on the gas? is it when you are off the gas? does it seem to go away when you take a turn? Do you have gear oil in the rear end?

redfbody

Rotate your tires, if the sound moves then its your tires making the noise if the sound stays the same its not. I doubt its your tires since they are new but ive seen strager things.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

When you had the rear jacked up...was just one wheel spinning? Or were both wheels spinning during your test?

Thats not a very good test for rear end noise only because there is no load on the gears. Once you put a load on things, its a totally different animal.

Did you check for caliper interference on the inside of the wheels? Did you check to make sure it wasnt something silly like sticks or twigs jammed somewhere?

The other thing you might want to look at is inside the rear drums...if it has drums. Make sure a spring didnt pop off and start bouncing around and getting stuck under the pads.

Be methodical. Dont just start throwing parts all over. Check each area of the car thoughly, and you'll find the issue.

J.

Spike-Z

iTrader: (4)

My vote goes to bad driveshaft joints OR the driveshaft if out of balance.

dvardaman85

ok so i have checked drums: they are excelent.. removed and reinstalled front brakes (caliber and shoes(replaced shoes yet again)): brakes good ... when i pulled the plug on the rear end the oil was like just barely running out any more oil and it i would have had a mess.... well even though it sounds silly i looked for twigs and grass and dirt and stuff: nothing... rotated tires same thing... but check it out when i steer left noise is louder when i steer HARD right the noise seems to completely go away!

bigals87z28

Ok, so you put the rear end up, and there was no noise coming from the rear?

Then everyone needs to stop suggesting rear end or driveline parts.

Second, did you check the backing plate hitting the rotor on the front? That will give you a noise that you are describing.
How did you put the front brakes together?
You said it goes away when you turn? Does it go away when you turn to the max or as soon as you turn?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Not to nitpick...but I have to disagree with this reasoning. Loads can drastically change the way that bearings sound. If there is something amiss with bearings in the rear, they could very well be silent with no weight/load on the rear. Once you get the bearings side loaded going around a turn or accelerating, things can change.

Usually if I have a mystery noise Ill do a thorough visual check to make sure nothing is rubbing AT RIDE HEIGHT...and also that nothing is even close to being able to rub while leaning in a turn or hitting bumps. If all that checks out, I start digging deeper. And if I cant narrow it down to a specific part, Ill replace wear and tear things that I can imagine would cause noise. Like bearings. Its pretty easy and pretty cheap to re-bearing a rear end. If its never been done, it certainly cant hurt.

Just sayin...noises are hard to find when the car is sitting still without the forces of normal driving affecting things.

I do like your suggestion about the backing places and front brake parts though. Again...might be hard to see while its not actually making a turn or going down the road. This might lead back to front wheel bearing issues too. Might feel tight by hand, but with 4000lbs pushing on it, it might not stand up to it.

Just dont rule out the less obvious stuff while checking the more obvious things.

Good luck man!! Hang in there you'll figure it out.

J.

hot92RS

I vote for bearings. Did you replace the races as well?

1989IROC-Z5.7L

iTrader: (2)

Have you checked to make sure that the wheels are not rubbing the brake calipers on the front?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

You make no mention of wheel bearings in the front when you replaced rotors.

Are you also sure you got them greased enough, and tightened properly.

Did the dust sheild get bent on the front end?

Are you lowered, larger tires, etc?

dvardaman85

well when it comes to packing bearings i have done it many times, so ...i mean i dont think i did it wrong. as for torque on the hub well i mean if you have done it then you know. however i did follow the torque that the chiltens manual said to use. you know though how do you install the races on the hub? no way that i screwed that up.... i dont think. ------it comes with the bearing and the little metal cover that comes with it in the box but im supposed to throw out the metal cover right. -------um just put some iroc tires on it from like 88or something. u know stock stuff. so wheels and brakes are good i just checked no possible way it could be rubbing----no lowering

RedLava

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like a front wheel bearing problem since it goes away when you turn.
Did you tap the race into the rotor until it hit the stop?

dvardaman85

um.... nope.. do you think maybe you could elaborate on that a bit so i could try and understand what you mean. cause i cant find that in the chiltons manual. or at least if its in here i cant find it.

bigals87z28

If you replaced the rotors, they races usually are already pressed in.

To the other person, I agree that taking the load off the rear could give him a false positive, but I still belive that the noise he is hearing is coming from the front.

to the OP, did you check the dust shield? I dont think that is the problem since you said its getting worse when you turn. I would double check the front wheel bearings.

dvardaman85

ok sorry thats the big thin piece that is on the inner side of the rotor? cause if it is then no its not touching and that is turning wheels both directions completely. .... um ya the races appeared to already be pressed into the rotors when i replaced them. that is why i discarded the races that came with the bearings. but i have replaced the bearings i think 2 times since the prob started.... actually i think the prob actually started when i replaced the lower ball joints so that i could get my allignment done on the car.

jjlabinski

Yeah, you replaced the rotors and tightened the large nut too tight and cooked your bearings! kids!

dvardaman85

yeah but everytime i have replaced them since the issue started, they have always been just fine when i toook them out. i just replaced them anyway because i was grasping for straws you know. i mean its only like 10in lbs or some junk right so you basically turn it on with your hand till u feel resistance.

jjlabinski

noise start before or after the tires? what kind of tires?

Post a sound clip and I will give it a listen.

could be torque converter

jjlabinski

noise start before or after the tires? what kind of tires?

Post a sound clip and I will give it a listen.

dvardaman85

before... tires was just another one of those grasping at straws things

bigals87z28

Tires wouldnt make that noise.
Its possible that if you did overtorque the wheel bearings, that you actually destroyed teh spindle.
I had a first time mechanic do it. He had done several brake jobs, but never on a car with a hub/rotor set up. It was on a 84 Grand Prix, and he used an impact gun to tighten down the castle nut on the spindle.
He warped the spindle so much that we couldnt get the inner bearing off the spindle, or put it back on.
End game is that we had to purchase two new spindles.
The customer said that there was a heavy grinding noise, and that it was very hard to drive the car. When we pulled it in, the tech grabbed an air gun. I asked him wtf he was doing, and he said "well I put it on with an air gun, how do you expect me to get it off?"
Was a great tech too. Became a top level Lexus certified tech. gotta crack a few eggs to make an omlette.

awolfalone2006

ok, you have done the front end enough times it seems like to eliminate that. problem goes away when turning to the right, try the rear end right side. These use a semi floating axle so there is a bearing at the wheel end of the axle shaft. I would look at that. if the bearings are gone the axle will move around a lot in the tube. If it hasn't destroyed the seal the bearing may just be starting to go bad. Hopefully this gives you another path to follow.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Long shot...but do you know anyone with an emission shop or a dyno? You could give them a few bucks to strap it down and just let you run it with weight on the rear end. That would tell you real quick if it was front/rear...if you could hear it over the dyno drum.

I know you said you changed tires...but did you look in the wheel wells at all for rub marks? When I went to 17" WS6 wheels, I picked up a TON of rotational noise if I wasnt pointed perfectly straight. Shows up as shiny spots on the plastic and metal parts.

Its pretty hard to screw up front wheel bearings. It sounds like you have the concept right...tighten until you feel resistance. If you did that, you wouldnt have burnt them up.

Ill be completely honest with you...Ive never cracked open the stock rear in a thirdgen. But Ive been building axles for a good number of years now. Dana's and 8.8s mostly with some 12 bolt experience. I have seen some REALLY weird things go on in some axles having to do with bearings. Right now...Im running a strange 12-bolt. I have a weird rotational noise. I replaced my carrier and pinion bearings to no avail. I havent replaced the actual wheel bearings that are on the axle shafts, because strange uses hard to find bearings. Atleast they did on mine. So I have to either order from them, or convert to conventional bearings. Im just being lazy. Im betting thats my problem though.

You'd have a much easier time of R&Ring that rear end. Ide be inclined to, at this point, quadruple check up front...which I think you have. Then Ide replace the u-joints because they are cheap and easy. If that doesnt do it, I would replace the rear wheel bearings. If you dont have the means to do it, just pull the shafts out and take them to a driveline shop. They'll do it for under $20 most likely. If it STILL does it...then I say either rebuild the rear or live with it. haha.

Ide like to hear a vid or sound clip of what its doing....is that possible for ya??

J.

dvardaman85

made several attempts to capture the sound however they were all quite hopeless being that i felt the need to put exhaust sytem on my car. now these u joints are where and for what exactly? driveshaft or trany or what?

awolfalone2006

Ok, if you can't find it still don't throw the car away, you have too much invested now. take it to a shop, they definately would have more experience than it sounds like you have, not to be rude. there are two ujoints on our cars, on the driveline, one at the trans and one at the rearend but they would not change the noise when turning left or right. I have experiance troubleshooting. 2nd place at the ford/aaa nationals in 2006. One of the test questions, taken directly from the sae tests, was just like this. When you turn to the right you are taking the load off of the right side, more on the left. This makes the noise go away. and the opposite would be true the otherway. so tell the shop of your choice exactly what, when, how the noise happens. The way you have been approaching this is wasting your money and time. Throwing parts at a car is no way to fix a problem.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Atleast the parts he's throwing at it are wear items and are probably due for replacement anyway....like on 70% of thirdgens on the road. But I agree...diagnosing the problem is the better way of handling it.

The u-joints are on the driveshaft. If you've done them before they are cake. However Im getting the impression that this would be your first time. I suggest looking online, either this site or google, on how to change them. Its how lots of people learn new projects, and I know there are some good write ups floating around. If you dont feel comfortable, just take the driveshaft to a driveline shop. Again, they probably wont charge you a whole lot to pop in new joints. Then again...in this econmy they might try to wring you out for all they can.

Did you happen to check to see if the e-brake cables were laying on top of the driveshaft at ride height? One of my springs that were holding up my cables popped off and let the cable sit on the driveshaft, and it was making a rubbing sound for awhile. Took me a bit to diagnose because of how it was laying on there. Then I realised when I sat in the car, it came down alittle more. JUST enough to make contact.

Just another idea...

J.

TA

iTrader: (1)

He said that he noise gets worse/better when he steers different directions, so it is possible that his alignment is tweaked and the tires are pointing in different directions and scrubbling badly. This can cause a howling noise and it will change pitch somewhat and even go away under quick steering inputs.

Get a tape measure and with the car on the ground measure from from front Lt tire to front Rt tire at the fronts then at the backs, as high up the tires as you can get. With the car steering straight, these measurements should be very close, otherwise your tires are scrubbing and you need an alignment or something is bent.

Have a look, it costs you nothing.

TA

dvardaman85

ok i think that i will prob take to shop ahowever i would like to check the bearings in the rear end first and really just go ahead and replace them.. shouldnt be to hard right?only a day

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If the axle is out of the car, I can replace all the bearings in a matter of hours. It really is a piece of cake. However...time depends on the tools you have on hand. I have a press and some experience on my side. If you dont have a press or a dremel, you are in for some work.

Usually....where the bearings are pressed on, I end up cutting them off with my dremel. My press is kind of limited, so its easier for me. If you dont have a press and dremel, Im not sure you want to tackle replacing all the bearings.

If you do, its really easy. Just remember to take put things back in place where they belong. Such as shims and spacers. They are side specific. Do some searching on the net for rebuilding the stock thirdgen axles, and you will get all the info you can use Im sure.

Dont be afraid of it...but if you get in over you heard, remember to keep things in order, and you can always run the parts to a driveline shop to have them press off the old bearings and press on the new ones.

Haha I really want to see you fix the noise! I know how much of a pain those mystery noises can be.....

J.

dvardaman85

ok so today i drove to the zone to try and buy some stock replacement bearings for the rear end.... while i was drinving down the road i hear a loud pop much like um... well a metal snaping sound. now it sounds like somebody is on the bottom of my car with a grinder and it just gets worse and worse the faster i go. oh and when i hit the brake more than just a little push i can barely keep it on the road... it was pretty damn scary

bigals87z28

Well, sounds like your rear finally went. I guess I was wrong...

dvardaman85

well i dont know much about rear ends but im gonna open it up and look and mark all the parts and organize them as they get removed. are there any brand new bolt in rear ends that i can just buy?

bigals87z28

Yeah, you could purchase a rear end that someone has. Check craigslist or even the classifieds here. Craigslist only cause its gunna be closer to you.

Watch out for 4th gen rears. They are wider, so your stock third gen wheels will stick out of your fenders.

Then there are higher performance rears, but then can cost your over 2 grand. These are for extreme applications. The GM 12 bolt, the Ford 9 inch, and the Dana 60 rear are some of the more popular, but again, very expensive unless you are pushing the power to need them.

A used rear could range from 100 to 250 bucks. You could also take the car to a driveline shop and have it repaired. If its a typical GM 10 bolt rear, parts are pretty easy to find.


In other news...Im getting a sound similar to what you are describing. Its coming from my new-to-me 9 bolt rear.

awolfalone2006

Start with the wheels and drums. If there is oil on one set of brakes inspect that side. Should be the right. Depending on how far and fast you drove you may still be able to use your current axle housing. So long as the end of the tube is ok and you can get the bearing races out all you should need is bearings and seal. You have the right idea though. Mark everything and lay it in order. If you have old cookie sheets or something along that line they work great for holding parts. Cover it all if you are going to be away from it for awhile. I don't know about your area but here we can get some wicked dust storms suddenly. Clean it all before you go back together. Take your time and do this right. If you decided to do a whole rear it is pretty straight forward. Change the oil in a junkyard rear no matter what before you run it. While working for a dealership I saw a transmission come back in two days because there was metal in the junkyard part.

jjlabinski

I dont want to barf in your cheerio's but....
based on reading your posts I believe that job will be a little beyond your skill set.

using dial indicator to set back lash..checking runout...using prussian blue to check wear pattern. .pulling the yoke from the housing.. . etc.

Your best bet is to get the whole axel assm from a bone yard, find a buddy with a pick up truck to get it home for ya.

jack up rear of car. put jack stands under axel. remove brake lines and parking brake stuff. disconn drive shaft make sure to mark orientation.

disconn panhard bar,controll arms but not from the body. then shock bolts.
pull springs mark them so you get them on the side they came out of and in the right direction. do not loose the isolators.
drag out the whole assm.

While at the bone yard look under the glove box lids for the option codes list. find one with G-92 you will be happy.

scrape loose dirt and rust off and paint black.

re-install the same way as removal.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If you grenaded your rear, it might be wise to just pick up a stock replacement. Find one with a better gear ratio depending on what you have, and you'll pick up some performance too Like others said, if the carrier assembly is damaged, you're looking at having to set the axle back up again. Unless you want to have a shop do it. But if you arent re-gearing, that might just be a waste of money.

Around here, you can get a complete rear for $50. Heck I sold my posi rear out of my TA for $50. It is VERY easy to swap rears. Craigslist is a good place to start. Ebay can be... If you have local listings like a penny pincher, you can check there as well.

Im curious what let loose.

J.

dvardaman85

ya join the club. i started it up and ran it up and down the street with no probs yesterday. i know thats prob a bad idea but oh well. gotta drive it so.... well sound is still loud but..... im gonna check craigs list tonight and see. who knows maybe i will get lucky... oh did the v6's have bigger gears in the rear ends to make up for power or am i dreaming?

mooch1

since it makes the noise when turning under load,,,did you check the front top shock towers?....they may be worn out and make the tires rub and out of alignement...

Aviator857

Check your tierod ends, many aftermarket ends have an odd shape to them and when you turn the car or have the wheel under a load it will barley scrape the inside of the rim. When you have the tires off the ground its at a different angle and will not scrape. This will hapen if you put the factory rear wheels on the front as a tire shop did that once to me I backed out and its making this horrid grind noise. At this point you probably have a groove started in the wheel if this is the case.

also check the dust shield make sure its not contacting the rotor or any other thing such as the calipar or carrier bracket.

Opps just read the first page of post, just saw you found the problem by having it break fully -- good luck.