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i just installed my bmr 2 point brace and my wonder bar and felt a big difference in the front end stiffness and handling...... the bmr srut brace cleared perfectly made the engine bay look better in my opinion......... can't wait to purchase the bmr subframe connectors and torque arm.... with these four products i should feel a huge increase in stiffness and handling and putting power to the ground.....
thats pretty much all i can think of.... the torque arm flexes alot espically when you build up an engine... so i need to get rid of my stock one in place of a much stronger bmr unit.... im not sure about the panrod bars or the lca will help make the car any stronger... i dont know what they do actually.... but its not like im going to be racing the car.... just stiffen it up a bit will be just fine...
If you really want to stiffen your car add a set of Alston/Top down solutions sfc's as well. I saw a pic on here where one guy was able to teater-totter his car on a curb. I plan to do that to mine. The alstons connect the inner portions of the subframe where the bmr units run to the outside so they connect different places. A little more weight but stiff.
i didnt choose the 3 point because i didnt like the extra struts bolting on the firewall... didnt look like it made much difference... and the fact you had to reach around the struts to service the car......
I have had my car for the last 10 years and never been in an accident other than some jackhole backing hit truck in to the front and that was a minor deal....... and I know both the previous owners and they were never in an accident in it. Weird........
well maybe thats all it took for it to distort...... which brand wonderbar do you have by the way.... mine is made by umi... i do know that the brand i got had fitment issues with the 82 cars and the turbo trans am.....
If you really want to stiffen your car add a set of Alston/Top down solutions sfc's as well. I saw a pic on here where one guy was able to teater-totter his car on a curb. I plan to do that to mine. The alstons connect the inner portions of the subframe where the bmr units run to the outside so they connect different places. A little more weight but stiff.
That was my car you saw the picture of. You are not going to be able to do that with inner structure Alston SFC's, You will need oiter perimeter SFC's stitch welded in increments along the unibody.
Thanks for using BMR products. Our subframe connectors are some of the strongest on the market and will strengthen the subframe better than any other mod. We offer both styles, factory style exhaust SFC009, and SFC008 for cars with full length headers. The wonder bar or chassis steering brace helps eliminate frame flexing that is very common to the 3rd gen platform. All of the parts on these car flex under load thus the need to upgrade to better parts. We have a complete selection from front to back. Here is a link of what BMR has to offer. If you have any questions please give me a call.
The Devastator, I'm a noob at suspension. How tough was it to install the torque arm relocation crossmember and full length torque arm? Is cutting and welding required?
It was a straight up bolt in installation. The hardest part was getting the torque arm onto the differential. I think they manufactured it a little small on purpose. With a hammer and about 5 minutes it went on. It was difficult on mine as the car was sitting on the ground when I did it so I didnt have much room to swing the hammer. On a lift it would have been easy.
two sets of subframes will help a bunch in stiffness, many run peremiter type SFC Like BMR and UMI and spohn, and inners like TDS. this can be accomplished with alittle fabrication and creativity for less weight by doing it yourself if u can weld.
wonder bars/steering braces help alot. i have the TDS one and it went on with no probs. i also designed my own SFC and installed the 8pt roll bar myself. i noticed a big diff in front stiffness with the wonderbar and poly endlinks and sway bar bushings. i also noticed even more with the SFC. i have yet driven the car with the cage and reinforced front Aarms etc due to no engine. but my old mods are in my sig
strut tower braces help alot in cornering but for a drag car its not needed. The big problem is that ppl think that 3pts are better than 2 pts... they really dont do much more... the strut towers will move up and inward about a 1/2" under hard cornering... this can be advoided by a 2pt strut tower brace. the big claim with 3pts is that they attach the firewall for added rigidy... this is bogus, the fire wall is 22 guage steel and flimsy. even at the top its just sandwiched steel. However a 3 or 4pt will help with controlling the forward and backward movement of the strut tower brace when the strut towers flex while cornering... this is not gona help with rigidy tho. it will just center the brace which could make it more effective. a real 4pt strut tower brace to add rigidy would have to be made to connect the Apillars in the engine bay with the strut tower brace since this is where the the stock front subframe will flex.
really the only other way to increase rigidy after SFC install would be a roll bar/cage. roll bars/cages will stiffen the car alot more than SFC will... due to the height of the main hoop and the connecting points of the bars are alot higher than SFC, this means the bars have ALOT more leverage over the SFC, which also means they increase chassis stiffness more effectively.
aftermarket PANhard bars are stronger than the stocker due to there tubular design... but not exactly needed, most get them for there adjustability, and there spherical rod ends for a lowered vehicle. they will not strengthen the chassis but will help in cornering by keeping the rear in position better than stock.
aftermarket tq arms are effect in that they get the mounting point off the rear of the trans and are stronger, but there are many stock tq arm cars running into the 8s,9s and 10s. i agree howerever that getting the mount off the rear of the trans is prob a smart idea in that ppl to break the tail housings of the trans. most will also get them for there adjustability as well for setting pinon angle.
.... The big problem is that ppl think that 3pts are better than 2 pts... they really dont do much more... the strut towers will move up and inward about a 1/2" under hard cornering... this can be advoided by a 2pt strut tower brace. the big claim with 3pts is that they attach the firewall for added rigidy... this is bogus, the fire wall is 22 guage steel and flimsy. even at the top its just sandwiched steel. However a 3 or 4pt will help with controlling the forward and backward movement of the strut tower brace when the strut towers flex while cornering... this is not gona help with rigidy tho. it will just center the brace which could make it more effective. a real 4pt strut tower brace to add rigidy would have to be made to connect the Apillars in the engine bay with the strut tower brace since this is where the the stock front subframe will flex.
I will explain why your thoery is wrong here.
A 3pt strut brace is vital to optimum handling and IS noticable if added and removed if the rest of the car is up to par without weaker flex points in bushings and such and/or poor grip tires.
Why is your 22gauge firewall theory wrong? because the 3rd point is diagonally attached to the cross structure beam of the top of the firewall just in front of the windsheild. A major newsflash for anyone that does not know- 'your windsheild is body structure' and is designed as a critical element in safety and strength of the body rigidity.
Now why diagonal tot he center of the windsheild off each strut tower and not to the apillers like you think? Because weight transfers diagonally in the chassis upon cornering and the windsheild will in fact flex towards the outside strut mount under load and that flex will lift the inside rear wheel load (reduce x-weight) and make the car loose in under flex. Adding 3pt braces diagonally from the strut towers to the center of the windsheild point on the upper firewall diagonally strengthen the chassis and tighten the rigidity maintaining x-weight and reducing chassis flex.
please explain why norm peterson believes that this is not correct? and he does structual annaysis, not to mention ive taking some structual courses when i was going to school to be an architect.
now what i believe to happen is (just my opinion in looking how the car will behave structually in a turn) is that during a hard cornering move most of the weight will move to the front wheel thats digging in (hard right hand turn forces the load of the car to the front left wheel) of course weight is transfered to the left rear as well, weight is then lifted off the front and rear right wheels. how the strut towers will move inwards and diagonally doesnt make much sense to me, the strut towers are spot welded to fender supports that run all the way to the Apillars/windshield (body structure) at the key point of where the window structure and Apillar and fender support/firewall/strut tower connect and converge together. the fender supports run to the front structure of the nose(radiator) the strut towers are completely spot welded to this reinforment as well as the front subframe below. They are also spot welded to the firwall/front subframe. I dont see how the strut tower can be forced inward. Now there have been tests where the strut towers have been measured to move as much as 1/2" inward during hard cornering. If a strut tower brace corrects the strut towers urge to move inward, wouldnt the idea of a 4pt (the addition of 2 bars connecting the 2pt strut tower bar to the Apillar/windshield structure/fender reinforcement/strut tower/firewall be a stronger more effecient way to stopping all engine compartment flex? the 4pt attaching to the apillars will connect the strongest parts of the front subframe together while reducing the STB to fall forward and backwards as well as stopping the strut towers to move inwards on themselves? the 4 pt idea is still connecting the STB to the car on a diagonal axis.
again this is just how i see it, even if thats the case and im wrong, the 3pt STB the 3rd point the bars are usually welded to a brace and connected together. this added rigidy is not accomplished in the other guys design in the thread i posted. he spread the added 2 pts to far apart and didnt connect them.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...b-mvc-007f.jpg
this guy essentially connects every aspect of the engine compartment together, basically like putting a cage inside the engine bay connecting every point. altho drastic its key to some important designs. notice the point of connecting to the window is not at one single point like in edelbrocks design as well as any other 3pt like BMR etc. he chooses to move the connecting points farther out and closer to the APILLARS as i stated many times.
Last edited by customblackbird; 08-04-2009 at 01:42 AM.
A 3pt strut brace is vital to optimum handling and IS noticable if added and removed if the rest of the car is up to par without weaker flex points in bushings and such and/or poor grip tires.
Why is your 22gauge firewall theory wrong? because the 3rd point is diagonally attached to the cross structure beam of the top of the firewall just in front of the windsheild. A major newsflash for anyone that does not know- 'your windsheild is body structure' and is designed as a critical element in safety and strength of the body rigidity.
Now why diagonal tot he center of the windsheild off each strut tower and not to the apillers like you think? Because weight transfers diagonally in the chassis upon cornering and the windsheild will in fact flex towards the outside strut mount under load and that flex will lift the inside rear wheel load (reduce x-weight) and make the car loose in under flex. Adding 3pt braces diagonally from the strut towers to the center of the windsheild point on the upper firewall diagonally strengthen the chassis and tighten the rigidity maintaining x-weight and reducing chassis flex.
Dean
Hmm Good thing i went to a BMR 3 point strut tower brace the first time. Now that i know that bit of info. Im REALLY glad i did it right the first time and not to mention it was only like 10 dollars more. SWEEEETTTTT!!!
i just installed my bmr 2 point brace and my wonder bar and felt a big difference in the front end stiffness and handling...... the bmr srut brace cleared perfectly made the engine bay look better in my opinion......... can't wait to purchase the bmr subframe connectors and torque arm.... with these four products i should feel a huge increase in stiffness and handling and putting power to the ground.....
LOVE BMR PRODUCTS!!! cant wait till i can afford a torque arm from BMR. Hmm Christmas is coming. HONEY!!! Ill do the dishes tonight!!! Need my christmas list?? LOL
please explain why norm peterson believes that this is not correct? and he does structual annaysis, not to mention ive taking some structual courses when i was going to school to be an architect.
now what i believe to happen is (just my opinion in looking how the car will behave structually in a turn) is that during a hard cornering move most of the weight will move to the front wheel thats digging in (hard right hand turn forces the load of the car to the front left wheel) of course weight is transfered to the left rear as well, weight is then lifted off the front and rear right wheels. how the strut towers will move inwards and diagonally doesnt make much sense to me, the strut towers are spot welded to fender supports that run all the way to the Apillars/windshield (body structure) at the key point of where the window structure and Apillar and fender support/firewall/strut tower connect and converge together. the fender supports run to the front structure of the nose(radiator) the strut towers are completely spot welded to this reinforment as well as the front subframe below. They are also spot welded to the firwall/front subframe. I dont see how the strut tower can be forced inward. Now there have been tests where the strut towers have been measured to move as much as 1/2" inward during hard cornering. If a strut tower brace corrects the strut towers urge to move inward, wouldnt the idea of a 4pt (the addition of 2 bars connecting the 2pt strut tower bar to the Apillar/windshield structure/fender reinforcement/strut tower/firewall be a stronger more effecient way to stopping all engine compartment flex? the 4pt attaching to the apillars will connect the strongest parts of the front subframe together while reducing the STB to fall forward and backwards as well as stopping the strut towers to move inwards on themselves? the 4 pt idea is still connecting the STB to the car on a diagonal axis.
again this is just how i see it, even if thats the case and im wrong, the 3pt STB the 3rd point the bars are usually welded to a brace and connected together. this added rigidy is not accomplished in the other guys design in the thread i posted. he spread the added 2 pts to far apart and didnt connect them.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...b-mvc-007f.jpg
this guy essentially connects every aspect of the engine compartment together, basically like putting a cage inside the engine bay connecting every point. altho drastic its key to some important designs. notice the point of connecting to the window is not at one single point like in edelbrocks design as well as any other 3pt like BMR etc. he chooses to move the connecting points farther out and closer to the APILLARS as i stated many times.
I went ahead and just anwsered on that post since there is much more disucusion there on this topic and Norm is present there to give imput. Norm and I basically agree from my standpoint. He spoke of A-pillar attachments WITH A CENTER 'X' BRACE attached but would be impossible to fit.
Thanks for using BMR products. Our subframe connectors are some of the strongest on the market and will strengthen the subframe better than any other mod. We offer both styles, factory style exhaust SFC009, and SFC008 for cars with full length headers. The wonder bar or chassis steering brace helps eliminate frame flexing that is very common to the 3rd gen platform. All of the parts on these car flex under load thus the need to upgrade to better parts. We have a complete selection from front to back. Here is a link of what BMR has to offer. If you have any questions please give me a call.
I wish that BMR would just endorse me that way i can have all of their products and i can tell EVERYONE what great products they have. i just cant afford all they have to offer. HINT HINT HINT LOL!!
I wish that BMR would just endorse me that way i can have all of their products and i can tell EVERYONE what great products they have. i just cant afford all they have to offer. HINT HINT HINT LOL!!
We do sponsor some cars most are in the nmca but we do have some show cars that we do help out. We appreciate all of you loyal customers.
If you need to order anything give me a call and let me know your a member of third gen and i can help you out with pricing.
Yes - I’m replying 12 years later. I just installed a BMR 2 point strut brace on my ‘84 Trans Am, and I didn’t want to create a new thread. I also bought a UMI wonder bar, and I’ll install that soon. I look forward to the results, but my ‘84 Trans Am was more solid in stock form than an ‘89 Iroc I used to own. The Iroc creaked constantly. Weird.
07-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Our subframe connectors are some of the strongest on the market and will strengthen the subframe better than any other mod. We offer both styles, factory style exhaust SFC009, and SFC008 for cars with full length headers. The wonder bar or chassis steering brace helps eliminate frame flexing that is very common to the 3rd gen platform. All of the parts on these car flex under load thus the need to upgrade to better parts. We have a complete selection from front to back. Here is a link of what BMR has to offer. If you have any questions please give me a call. 
