fidelis5588

Ok so I'm working on slowly but surely restoring my darling maro.....however I don't know much about cars. I've been scouring this suspension section of the forum, and I'd like some advice/input/criticism on my plans thus far. Please tell me what you think!


Just bought C4 ZR1 wheels which are currently on the car. I have 2" billet adapters all around and I'm running some Nitto 555's, 275 all around. They're perfectttttt so far.

What I'm thinking about doing suspension wise:

- Energy suspension "master" bushing kit

- Moog front end steering pack (Front Lower Ball Joint , Outer Tie Rod Ends, Inner Tie Rod Ends, Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeves)

- Eibach prokit springs

- KONI yellow shocks and struts

from what I understand I'll also need an adjustable panhard bar, LCA brackets? can anyone recommend some good brands or does it really matter all that much?

I'm also looking into SFC's but my boyfriend keeps telling me they're useless and add weight. He knows alot about cars..he has a 2006 GTO, however he knows next to nothing about Camaro's so he told me to ask if SFC's are really necessary.

What else am i missing? Please keep in mind this car is my daily driver and that's all I'll basically be using it for. I plan to keep it till i die, maybe one day it will be more of a show car but for now I just want to be able to whip it around corners and stuff. =)

Thanks for all your help!

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Then start with the SFCs and a 3 point strut tower brace. That's your base for everything else. If it's a daily driver don't lower it unless you only drive on good roads/streets. If any of the components are worn out then by all means replace them but when it comes to whipping around corners, unless you are already very good at it, the car can whip way more than you can make it even in stock trim.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

I too would suggest sfc's also, especially if it's a ttop car. As far as a brand for adjustable panhard, LCA's, BMR or UMI are very good. Tell your boyfriend if he doesn't know anything about Camaro's, he doesn't know car's. Lol

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Koni yellows are "overkill" for a daily driver street car, unless your planning on more serious handling & road course track time. Reds are more fine for just the street. Even KYBs Gas-A-Just are not bad for just a street car. That is what I'm running on my daily driver.

A Strut Tower Brace does not have to be a 3-point to be good. Only when they aer built from really thin walled tubing, like the older Edelbrock 3-point. I took my Edelbrock 3-point off & put a UMI 2-point on. 3-point STVs REQUIRE you to drill at least 3 holes in firewall & generally 2 more for the strut towers. My UMI 2-point utilized the strut mounts themselves & required NO holes to be drilled.

SFCs are NOT a waste. Even a bone stock V6 3rd gen could use them. They tighten up the whole unibody of these cars.

Adjustable Panhard Bars (APHB) is almost "required" when lowering a 3rd gen, especially if your trying to tuck wide tires & prevent rubbing. I tucked 315s in the back & even before lowering the Drivers side was virtually flush while the Passenger side was in about a full 1 inch, at stock ride height

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

For the adjustable panhard and LCA, look into Founders Performance, they are a sponsor here on the boards. The quality from what I have heard is great, and their prices are far cheaper than any of the other competitors.

SFC's are the first thing you would want to do to the car. As others have said, these bodies flex terribly.

While changing shocks/struts and springs, look into new strut mounts. Founders Performance also carries these for a great price.

Here is a link to founders main page: http://www.foundersperformance.com/

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Skip the ES bushing kit, if you are going to be upgrading rear control arms and panhard, about the only thing you'd be using out of the kit will be stuff that will either be cheaper for only the parts you need seperately, or stuff where polyurethane isnt a good choice anyway.

Up front get the global west Del-a-lum lower control arm bushings.

Preferribly get Bilstein shocks and struts, better design, and last a lot longer.

Yes you absolutely need SFC's, anyone that says you dont should be disregarded permanently.

Alstons and spohns are about the only two i'd buy, i've seen others, and directly installed those two, wouldnt buy anything else.

Other things to complete your suspension:

ES poly transmission mount
ES poly torque arm mount
ES poly engine mounts
ES poly swaybar bushings and endlinks

Some sort of adjustable LCA's for the rear, and panhard bar, preferribly rod end type, or spohns del-spheres.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

I would love to have everything you mention. But for auto-x not a daily driver.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Then you would hate to see my setup for my daily driver


None of that is terrible for a daily driver, most people are a bit confused and dont understand how things work, then think its bad, the people actually running stuff are busy wondering what everyone else is thinking.

Ultimate DD setup, all the parts I mentioned, with spohn del-spheres on the rear stuff.

blakecharles

that's quite a shopping list you have there!! you need the adjustable suspension if your going to lower the car. YOU WILL feel the difference after installing sfc's

fidelis5588

There is no such thing as overkill, please, bring it on. =)

Thank you for going into some detail with the bushings. I wasn't sure what parts came with them, and I've been reading alot of posts about poly vs rubber, but frankly, it's over my head. I'm a hands on learner.

I will certainly look into the Founder's stuff! And strut mounts as well. And SFC's are on the list.

Thank you all for the advice. Please keep it coming!

Hal87

iTrader: (1)

Just got UMI sfc's put on my Firebird! I cannot BELIEVE the difference!!! Everything that everyone says about sfc's is true, Well worth the investment, good place to start.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

In that case...Don't buy "lowering springs". Buy the Coilover Conversion kit, 82-92 Chevrolet Camaro/Firebird Weight Jack Product SKU #2505
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...tion.php/II=20

You get to choose your hardness/softness of springs & dial in the ride height that YOU want & not just whatever some kit gives you. And you have the ability to raise/lower the car (a few inches) in the future for FREE (just gotta turn a couple wrenches)!

88 5.7 Iroc-Z

Founders performance has some great quality pieces at great prices, I have their LCA's and adj Panhard on my car, if you want the best bang for your buck go with these guys, they sometimes take a bit to send stuff off(took them 3 weeks to get me my parts) but if you experience this just contact them. Also since you want to go around corners get the rod end type of LCA's and panhard bar.

You will ABSOLUTELY need SFC's, because these car's flex a ton, UMI, BMR, and Spohn are all pretty good, if you order from summit, you get UMI's and BMR's for 249.90 shipped to your door, there are also some cheaper options like hotchkis, but if you want to see all your options go to summitracing.com.

Shocks are a must, but Koni yellows are pretty steep, Bilsteins will get the job done on a daily driver and they will improve the ride substantially over the old worn out shocks. The lowering springs will lower the vehicle(unless you have extremely saggy springs, in which case it may raise it) but it does so at the cost of a stiffer ride, so just be aware of that.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

If you want high quality and to avoid all of the truth behind the poly vs. rubber debate, which is reality, go to the spohn stuff and delsphers, the gw del-alum bushings up front.

That lets everything rotate and pivot as it should without binding, thereby letting the dampers do their job.

Also Bilsteins arent a lower level damper than the konis, better shock that will handle forces better, and last far longer, you lose the adjustment factor, but once you adjust the damping correct you'll likely never change it, if you end up really needing different valving in the Bilsteins its no big issue, and you could even possibly do it yourself.

RRUHL

i have the kyb adjustable rear shocks and 70 10 coil over struts in the front there a bit over kill but then agian not everyday you see a jacked up camaro lol f lowing them.....then agian i have a yj jeep on 38s and 8 inch lift soo dont use my opinion for ur answers lol

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

I stripped everything from under my 85Z-28 and it was amazing how the car handled after replacing/upgrading suspension.

adj. sphohn rear pieces
Energy suspension bushings IMO, POLY is the only way to go. Last much longer.
Edelbrock Tie Rod adjusters make things easier.

Moog steering pieces
Koni shocks
Eibach 1" drop springs.
Springs restored correct ride height after removing cast iron from engine.

If you are a driveway/Garage mechanic like me, I can give you a few tips that I learned the hard way. There is an easier and safe way to install springs without using a spring compressors. I have seen one break while being used and I never use them.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Poly last longer than what ? Rubber ? Maybe, the stock stuff lasts forever, longer than delrin, not a chance.

Tips for installing lowering springs without a compressor ? Shouldnt need one anyway....

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

The springs can not be installed without compressing them. The point of a spring is to provide resistance to compression. What would be the point of coil springs if they are not under compression? They can be compressed either with a compressor or with a heavy chain and two jacks. Two jacks and a chain is easier but it takes a bit of time to get the bolt holes lined up.

I am using Graphite impregnated Poly bushings in my Corvette because they will last forever if properly maintained. Unless you are building a track car, Delrin is just overkill and wasting money on a daily driver.
Stock rubber bushings last forever??? Why do they sell replacements then? Why does rubber rot in 6-7 years?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Weird, as i've installed quite a few sets of thirdgen lowering springs without any sort of spring compressor, chains, etc.


You seem to be quite confused by how the bushings under a thirdgen work, or any car for that matter, and have bit hard into prothane/es advertising, or work for them.

1st, I havent seen much in the way of stock bushings rotted on cars in 6-7 years as you claim, yes i've seen some torn in a little over that time, but other than cars that are a hyd filled rubber bushing, not very often, lets be a little realistic here.

2nd, there is a reason there are debates on whether people are better off using stock rubber replacements for most of the suspension that actually moves, rather than polyurethane, everywhere that it rotates, and gets side loaded, polyurethane often ends up with more stiction than the resistance a rubber bushing would have offered with its twisting, not to mention being unpredictable.

Everywhere I suggested delrin to the OP, its far from "overkill", its what is a great choice, especially when the other alternatives are nowhere even close to the same, and would be a great choice whether its a daily driver, or a weekend toy, especially with her plans to keep it for quite some time, upgrade it once, and never have to toy with it again.

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

You CAN NOT install springs without compressing them in some way. If a spring is not compressed after proper installation, WHY would you need them?
I have been rebuilding cars for 29 years. I know what a bushing is. I just have a couple of things that you do not. Common Sense and mechanical ability. Just because YOU do not like Poly for some reason, doesn't mean that there is something wrong with them. If you want to try Poly again, take it to a shop that knows what they are doing.

Rubber rots, decays, degrades, cracks etc. over a realatively short time.

If someone uses Poly bushings, installs them correctly and isn't a moron, they work perfect and last 10 times longer than rubber. They do not squeak or make for any noticeable ride harshness. I would not have used Poly all the way around on my '68 Corvette that I restored and would not be installing them on my '73 Vette.

You have obviously not read what she posted. She is rebuilding a Daily Driver, not a racecar. I understand that the original poster is a girl and you want to impress her with your vast knowledge of autos and build her car for her, but just chill out a little. She was looking for opinions on a good suspension for her daily driver.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

The first part of your post shows it all.

Weird that I and plenty of others have installed springs, without any spring compressor, or chains, your vast knowledge shows just how much you know.

She was asking for input, again, just because you bit hard into some advertising, that doesnt change how things actually work, you are ok with greasing your poly bushings every month so they stick less, thats just fine, she probably isnt going to want to crawl under her daily driver every month to make up for a bushing materials shortcomings, the delrin is yet again a better choice there.

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

The chain is to wrap around the spring so it doesn't slip and fly out and kill anyone in it's path. I was giving advice on how not to get hurt or killed. A jack on opposite corners installs the spring. Since it would never happen with your expertise,go ahead and install a coil spring without a compressor or safety chain. Probably be fine, but, someone may have to pick up pieces of your head from the ground someday.
As far as the poly/rubber thing. I just use what is best for my intended use. I wouldn't install them on an $50,000 Vette and a $30,000 Vette if they were not good pieces. I don't know though, maybe the Poly bushings for real cars are different than the ones used on toys.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Look, your inexperience with the springs is starting to show a little too much here, by the time there is any actual tension on a set of lowering springs in a thirdgen when installing them, without any of your sillyness, the arm is already up and has made the spring captive, the thing that you dont understand about the lowering springs, is that they are generally of a higher spring rate, what ??? how in the world do you get a HIGHER spring rate to LOWER a car ???
OMG !

They are a much shorter free length, sorry guy, again they can be slipped into the pocket, pushed right up onto the A arm, jack it up and theyre in, yes I understand with your 70's corvette restorations and old giant springs you've got to use your chains, teeter totters, sawmill, and smoke stack to install them. But we arent referring to your 70's corvette.


Definetly got me on the poly, the stuff for "toys" must be made poorly, oh well the QA1 sphericals will work fine for me instead.

Kinda sad that you cant just grasp the concept of a bushing needing to be able to rotate both on an axial and radial plane at the same time, like the rear suspension arms need to, and then grasp that a delrin spherical such as that offered by spohn both does this, and allows for minimal nvh.


Maybe you should stop "trying to impress her" with your 70's vettes, and learn a thing or two ?

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

hoogaboo, delrin is a better way to go than poly. The original poster is installing on her daily driver, however, here is a quote from her.

ShamelessTR

First of all a bravo @Z28Ricer for being on the reality of this issue. It really doesn't matter what you need to do to get coil springs onto any other car, we are talking about a thirdgen Camaro, which tends to favor the use of less tools and more know how.

As for the Founders Performance stuff. I just received my order and initial quality is amazing. I am really looking forward to getting it under my car, along with a couple other goodies. I am glad I found Founders because for an adjustable set you pay the same as an adjustable panhard elsewhere.

Lastly don't let guys, no matter how much they know, tell you what to do on your car. It's yours, and you drive it. You have access to all the information in the world about your car right here on Thirdgen.org. Do your own research, figure out what works best for you and do it.

Oh and nearly all the advice in this thread is great advice. I really feel like there is little else to add. Hope you have a blast in your Maro when it's done!

fidelis5588

Amen. I'm all for putting the good stuff in initially so I don't have to do it again. *ahem konis*.

While ignoring the bickering section of this thread, again I greatly appreciate all the opinions and knowledge shared. And don't worry, I'm about as hardheaded as they come and I won't be putting anything on my car that I don't want on it, and if I want to put some ridiculously expensive parts on because I like them even though it's a DD...I will be. lol.

I'm leaning towards a mixture of poly and rubber for the bushings, and looks like I'll be getting some stuff from Founders and some from BMR because they're less than an hour from me and they give discounts for paying cash and picking parts up whatttttt.

fidelis5588

Question...if I get the on-car adjustable LCA/Panhard bar package from Founders, do I still need LCA relocation brackets? Or does the LCA's being adjustable account for that already

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

LCARBs are only needed if your looking for drag racing-style launches. For the street? That are not "needed".

I've had adjustable LCAs from UMI for years now & still don't have LCARBs. In fact....The only reason I have LCAs is because I needed the thinner design (than stock LCAs) & used the Offset bushings to give the room for the 315 rear tires.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

If you are lowering it, yes you realistically need them.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

No. You do not NEED them. Will they help with launches & reducing tire spin? YES. Are they NEEDED? NO.

A lowered car, without LCARBs will live a long & happy life without them & with zero consequences. It is the drivers right foot that is the determining factor of whether or not anyone needs them.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You lower it you throw off the suspension geometry, its correcting an error, its not something that doesnt change, it is an issue, just because you choose to ignore the error and not fix it doesnt mean its the correct way to do it.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Please tell me that this is not going to turn into another internet pissing match that I see way too often on TGO?

A NEED is defined by "if you don't do something else then it cannot be done or it will hurt something else."

LCARBs are NOT NEEDED by definition. Yes it makes for a bad suspension geometry.

Will it hurt/hinder/or otherwise hurt or make anything bad by not having them? No. It WILL NOT hurt a single thing.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

It does hurt something else, it hurts the suspension geometry, or did you not read that definition properly ? "Or it will hurt something else" - that hurt is the angle of the rear suspension.

Seriously, install $600 in shocks / struts, $200 in springs, to say skip the $47 brackets that are needed, yes by definition to correct the induced incorrect geometry.....

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Ok. I'm done playing your internet "I'm right & your wrong." game. Not worth it.

I've said my piece. I have proved that they are NOT a REQUIRED item. I have given her the required info that she needs to make an informed decision. I'm outta here. I didn't come here to play games with you.

But I will say this about a previous statement of yours that I let slide because you obviously like to "internet argue".

You said "how in the world do you get a HIGHER spring rate to LOWER a car ???" Easy answer to that question Spring height & spring rate are 100% independent. They can EASILY make a high spring rate in a shorter spring. In fact? That is pretty much standard practice. A higher spring rate on shorter springs to prevent the car from bottoming out since it is now lower to the road & lower to its bumpstops.

Go ahead.....Argue back. I'm unsubscribing so whatever you have to say will only be for others to read for you to make yourself look "big" to everyone else. BYE BYE!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Argue back ? I dont need to, you've pointed out exactly what I said, apparently you missed it here:

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Avoid the on-car Panhard bar. There's tremendous force applied in the middle. Once you have the adj one set, you'll likely not ever touch it, again (unless adj ride height).

Quote from frrax (f-body road racing and auto x):

Panhard bars
This is a location where rod ends add little to harshness even on a daily driver. It’s almost a no-brainer to use a double rod ended piece. Poly bushing’ed PHBs, particularly BMR’s, are prone to failure in these applications. Rod ends also limit deflection and enhance the feel of the car and prevent wider rear tires from rubbing the fenders under side loading. Look for a PHB with high quality ¾” rod ends-preferably 3-piece rod ends that run about $30 a pop. You can also make your own PHB with parts from stock car part vendors. Aluminum is also suitable for this application and can save weight over steel, but either choice will work fine.

LG Motorsports sells nice quality steel and aluminum phbs. Unbalanced Engineering, Spohn , UMI, Stranoparts and others also sell steel phbs with quality rod ends.
Avoid designs, BMR, which use an adjuster in the center of the phb. Under axial compression this is where stress is the greatest and is the worst possible place to put an adjuster.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

The list I would go with starting with best bang for the buck to least:
-Weight reduction (Can't beat free, and the less weight you have to push around a corner the better) $0
-Rebuild/ replace all worn steering linkages, ball joints, adjust or replace steering box if worn or leaky (doesn't matter how good the car slides or sticks, if you can't control it there's no point) $-depends on what's bad
-Koni Yellows ~$750
-SFC's and wonderbar, preferably Spohn outer and Alston inner ~$200 each plus installation for SFCS, $50 for wonder bar
-J&M or Founders strut mounts, (Founders are cheaper but I'd imagine J&M uses a better bearing, maybe Vetruck could weigh in on this.) ~$150-250
-Poly sway bar bushings/ end links, Global West Del a lum A-arm bushings ~$20 each bar/$100 delrins
-Rod/Rod adjustable track bar and Rod/poly LCA's $200-400 depending on supplier
-3 pt. strut bar. The 2 pt one just connects the two deflecting strut mounts to one another without triangulating them and anchoring them to the firewall. ~$150 on up for pre made, depending on your fabrication skills or who you know you could probably fab one or have one fabbed for the material cost + a case of beer or two

^Pretty cost effective list for making a thirdgen handle by correcting all the design flaws and compromises. (Crappy worn out dampers, rubber bushings everywhere, and stupid amounts of flex)
Bilsteins, mentioned earlier in the thread, are good but Konis have better valving for use with stock or lowered cars, whereas Bilsteins are valved for stock height and are non adjustable.
As for lowering, you can run drop springs, weight jacks or coilovers. Drop springs are cheap but they suck because most of them are too soft to compensate for the fact that they mess up the front suspension geometry, meaning that the car will either roll the same amount or more unless it's low enough to hit the bump stops when leaning. Weight jacks allow you to pick your ride height and a good spring rate for that height, and then corner balance the car at a speed shop to perfectly distribute the weight. You can crank them up and down to change the height until you're happy with it, then have it corner balanced and aligned for perfect handling. your last option in this department is coilovers, which work much like weight jacks but they move the spring onto the strut from the a-arm pocket, allowing for more leverage so that you can run a softer spring to get the same handling. They do put the car's weight fully on the strut mounts which are very thin steel, however and change how the load is distributed through the chassis from how it was designed and intended to be handled. Personally, I'd run weight jacks or get some custom springs made.
And then if the car is lowered, you may want to pick up some lower control arm relocation brackets and a bump steer kit if it will clear your wheels.

I hold Vetruck, Twin_Turbo, and 91_5.7_TPI, racing geek and Sofakingdom in high regard on this subject and through their posts and the stickies at the top of this board are extremely helpful for anything else you may need to know. That's where I got most of my info from for that list and for what I've done to my car (couldn't be happier with it btw ).

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

fidelis, before listening to any moronic advice and get hurt, read some more threads about installing coil springs. You do not simply set the spring in the pocket and install bolts. Anyone that actually knows how to install a coil onto a 82-92, knows that. If it was that easy there would not be countless threads on here about coil instalation and any need for coil spring compressors.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...y-install.html

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

Blackend, Don't even try. There are some on here that ARE RIGHT, PERIOD and everyone else on here is stupid.

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=ShamelessTR;5359175]First of all a bravo @Z28Ricer for being on the reality of this issue. It really doesn't matter what you need to do to get coil springs onto any other car, we are talking about a thirdgen Camaro, which tends to favor the use of less tools and more know how.

QUOTE]

Isn't an 85z-28 considerfed a Thirdgen?? That is what I was talking about. Why does EVERY thread about coil spring install on this sight say to use a compressor or the 2 jack method. The Hotchkis that I installed would not compress enough to get the bolts in. The car came off of the ground befor compressing enough. I then went to the opposite corner and slowly jacked the car up until it put enough wait on the other corner and the bolt holes lined up.

If everyone but yourself and ***** are wrong, please go back through all of the coil insrtall posts and correct them. The 2 jack and a safety chain method came from this sight, so they need correcting.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...kind-best.html

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I know more on this subject than you do apparently, and here are the flaws in your attempted proof.


In the very thread you linked here, you can pretty well see that the person installing the springs is installing factory springs, yes with factory springs you'll need a compressor, there is no sort of voodoo magic here.

We are talking about lowering springs and installing them however, thirdgen lowering springs have a great deal shorter free height, you leave the A arm bolted in at the crossmember, slip the spring into the pocket up top, set the lower end of the spring in the correctly clocked spot in the lower pocket and jack the A-Arm up, done, thats it.

https://www.thirdgen.org/springs

See the note about lowering springs.

In the link you posted here, you skipped over the information, there is no need to go back and correct anything, you simply didnt read it.

Here it is for you, post number three:

hoogabooga

iTrader: (1)

GD...OK..I'll let you win. Tired of your ignorance anyway.
Sold my parts which was the only reason for loggin on in the past year.

That's one thing I don't have to deal with on the Vette forums. Know-it-all children. maybe one day you'll get your big boy panties and get a '55 Chevy, Roadrunner, or C-1,2,or3 Vette and have something , till then, have fun.

Then again, I could sell my 68 and trade for let's see.... 15...20...25 Third gens???

Advice? Should I trade it in so I can have 20 extra cars?


Ya'll have fun and remember.... Just because ONE member claims HIS way is the ONLY, it isn't always true.

Good day!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

This sums it up, you say it cant be done without all of your crap because you didnt know how.

I never said it couldnt be done with a spring compressor, and all of your extra hoop jumping, I said the shorter free length allows them to be installed without needing to remove the lca bolts, eliminating your need for a safety net with the chains while trying to move the LCA up with a jack and position the bushings to align with the holes.

You were the one claiming it couldnt be done, and it can, and has been, many times, before you go attempting to call someone ignorant, maybe you should look up the definition and then go stare in the mirror for a bit.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

This thread has turned into a flame war.

Seriously though, two members are arguing about a trivial issue, one is bashing thirdgens, and I find it particularly interesting that neither of you actually currently have thirdgens, or at least not in your sigs.

Springs are extremely dangerous, what's important is to take great caution, wear your PPE, and do them however you feel comfortable and minimize the risk. There is no one size fits all spring, nor is there one "correct" method, other than to use the J23028-01 tool, which I have never been able to find, is probably far more expensive than paying someone to install the spring for you, and would require decent fabrication skills to properly replicate. Just take your time, be smart and safe, and if you aren't comfortable, bite the bullet and drop the cash for someone else to do it so you'll never have the headache or the risk.


OP, sorry your thread got trashed. You had the right idea in your first post and there were a few good ones in there too. Note those, read the stickies and good luck.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

1st There was no arguing, the entire time he was trying to argue something because of his lack of knowing the technique.

2nd What's neither of us having thirdgens have to do with anything, i've owned nearly 10, disassembled hundreds, and worked on hundreds. And despite his lack of know how on installing lowering springs, surprising as it may be, Dean also probably has quite a bit more experience working on thirdgens than most of the people around here as well.

SlickTrackGod

Someone on our Facebook 3rd gen club page mentioned to me my name was being thrown around on TGO again so I searched it and found this thread.

Read a little of it, but not that much. I see talk about changing springs and wanting the perfect coil (in a sense).

[By the way, I should probably mention SlickTrackGod is Vetruck, Hi again all}

On the procedure of changing springs?- it can be very dangerous. If you do not know how to do it, you should probably have a shop do it or get someone with experience to help- thats all I will say on that.

I do not own a 3rd gen anymore, but as stated above, I work on them alot and still do to this day participate in helping our local club because of my vast knowledge of these cars- I love them. Ive had my eye on a few over the past several months, but something else I could not pass up came my way, as well as a current prospect into buying a widebody Porsche and getting into racing that with a very good friend as a two driver team- with that I have no room for a 3rd gen in the near future, buit still help weekly with the local guys (pic attached) doing setups for them for local track racing.

Coil springs are the same choice for any car when the first rule of spring choice comes into play, you want the longest coil wire length as possible for the least frequency change and rate change during suspension movement. Best way to do this on a 3rd gen? Get a heavy duty spring like a Moog 5662, set an extended ball joint into the control arm to aid in lowering another 1/2" to keep a longer spring, and then trim the spring down (with several installs and reinstalls in small trimming increments) until you get a ride height with the ball joint socket sitting about 1" lower than the front A-arm mount bolt on the chassis. This is maximum front suspension geometry setup.

I had suggested at one time to use drop spindles (for many reasons for geometry andvantage as well as roll center advantage) but the extended ball joints do alot towards the same goal - alot of people have reported issues with wheel clearance and tierod issues with the racecraft spindles. I have no experience with this other than what I have read on TGO and Facebook. Never heald a set in my bare hands so what I say is heresay.

I had extended balljoints on my car and reduced my positive roll rate thus using less a front swaybar for more mechanical grip.

Best things to buy first for the car are shocks, and tires. Next is solid bearing strut mounts- I recommend HotParts units with separate caster adjustments. Makes a world of difference when having to pound a 3rd gen strut into position with a rubber mallet to set alignment.

LCA relocation brackets are only needed if you are getting wheelhop- A little higher in rear than front help induce roll understeer=good. Too low makes for a squirrely high speed ride and induces roll oversteer=bad.

Dean

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

X2. Since the thread has apparently lost its usefulness and since bickering becomes annoying quickly....

JamesC