gta_knight

Hi all

My car has got Eibach pro kit springs fitted and the ride is very firm and the car crashes over the slightest bumps in the roads.

is anyone here using the Vogtland springs on their car? I've seen a few posts saying the ride is great but the replies are a bit vague. This car is just a cruiser for driving around the streets so the comfier the better.

Stock springs would probably be even better but shipping to the UK is now do ridiculous I can get a set of vogtland springs for half the price of a set of moog ones from rock auto.

thatsupnow

My 91 Z28 has Vogtland springs. I believe they drop 1 3/8". Really nice springs, firms things up and really keeps you planted to the road. I'd get them again if I was to do it all over again. I bought my set from Founders Performance

91formula_WS6_5

I have been considering the vogtlands also. Any pics of how low the car sits? How long have you been running them?

gta_knight

Firming things up seems to be the problem for me thats the trouble lol.

I had a V6 firebird last year as a project. I fitted new shocks front and back and the previous owner fitted new front coil springs but it sat too high. I cut a full coil off the fronts and it sat nicely and rode really nice!

I'm considering going that route on this car. It's got sub frame connectors, adjustable shocks, wonder bar, strut brace, tubular lower control arms and adjustable panhard bar and it rides like ****. No doubt it would be great on a perfectly smooth track but this is the real world with crappy roads lol

thatsupnow

I've been running them for a number of years now. No issues at all after this long. Not the best pics but should give you a good idea of what to expect

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

gta_knight What you running for shocks and struts? This is normally the issue with aftermarket springs 99% of the time.

gta_knight

It's got the red KYB ones up front and adjustable KYB ones at the rear. I've never touched the dial though I'm not sure what it's set at or how old they are

thatsupnow

Yea it's definitely hard to find that perfect medium between comfort cruise and performance. It's almost just trial and error to figure it all out

gta_knight

Yup. There's like 4 different moog springs options for the front too. I'm guessing ones listed as standard duty would have a softer spring rate than the heavy duty ones. I might go for them

t/aws61985

iTrader: (2)

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...rd-weight-jack

Gentleman, Look no further than weight jacks. Get exactly the ride you are looking for. Fully adjustable

vinny R

[QUOTE)

I'm considering going that route on this car. It's got sub frame connectors, adjustable shocks, wonder bar, strut brace, tubular lower control arms and adjustable panhard bar and it rides like ****. No doubt it would be great on a perfectly smooth track but this is the real world with crappy roads lol[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I have with stock springs. My buddy and I took the car an hr. to the range and he could not get over how good the car rides. My wife also comments on how smooth the car is also. With those suspension parts you get handling and don't sacrifice the ride. I set my shocks over 3 years ago and never touch them. Tires also make a big difference in the ride and if you got NO-Profile tires that is not helping. I have a set of Vogtland rear springs just sitting there in the garage. Have had them 2 years or more now and just like the ride to much to make the change.

gta_knight

This is exactly what I have with stock springs. My buddy and I took the car an hr. to the range and he could not get over how good the car rides. My wife also comments on how smooth the car is also. With those suspension parts you get handling and don't sacrifice the ride. I set my shocks over 3 years ago and never touch them. Tires also make a big difference in the ride and if you got NO-Profile tires that is not helping. I have a set of Vogtland rear springs just sitting there in the garage. Have had them 2 years or more now and just like the ride to much to make the change.[/QUOTE]

So youve got all the suspension mods my car has and the same shocks. But stock springs??? I might have to just get a set of these standard duty moog springs then and maybe cut one coil off depending on height.

Ive just got a replacement set of 245/50/r16s for the GTA rims. They are new old stock ( 9 years old ) as we can't get this size in the UK anymore. They were a steal so I thought it was worth it. They might have hardened though so I will see what it feels like. I have also been looking out for a set of nice aftermarket 17" wheels so I can easily get brand new tyres

vinny R

So youve got all the suspension mods my car has and the same shocks. But stock springs??? I might have to just get a set of these standard duty moog springs then and maybe cut one coil off depending on height.

Ive just got a replacement set of 245/50/r16s for the GTA rims. They are new old stock ( 9 years old ) as we can't get this size in the UK anymore. They were a steal so I thought it was worth it. They might have hardened though so I will see what it feels like. I have also been looking out for a set of nice aftermarket 17" wheels so I can easily get brand new tyres[/QUOTE]

I do, the only difference is my shocks are KYB AGX. Your tire size should be ok, but the 9 yrs could be a detriment. Those tires could be hard and making things worse.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I can't offer any opinions on Vogtland vs Eibach, but it seems to me that too much blame is being placed on the Eibach springs, when it's the shocks that control the spring action.

Non-adjustable KYB struts and shocks offer a firm and tight ride, and they last "forever." I had one set of KYB's GR-2 struts and Gas-a-Just shocks on the car with my WS6 springs for 30 years, and they were still solid when I changed them earlier this year. I liked them, but most people would probably consider the ride too harsh. You might consider testing a new set of rear shocks with the Eibachs before changing the springs, because you might find yourself with another harsh ride if you pair another set of springs with the KYBs.

Earlier in the year I lowered the car, and I changed to Bilstein struts and shocks. Bilstein does, or used to, offer two types of rear shocks for 3rdgens: one for standard height and one for lowered; I have the ones for lowered. I tested them with two different types of springs: 1) 175# rear springs lowered 1" to 1-1/4"; 2) 200# rear weight jacks dropped about 2". Both combos provided a nicer ride than the KYB/WS6 combo. Stiffer springs than stock, yet a nicer ride, thanks to the Bilstein shocks.

I didn't intend to test both types of springs, but after installing the 200# weight jacks with the Bilsteins, the ride was so different that I swapped to the 175# lowering springs to see how they'd compare, and they were very similar to each other, both nicer than KYB/WS6. I'll be swapping back to the weight jacks though because the height is still too high with the lowering springs. The adjustability of the weight jacks is necessary in my case.

Speaking of ride height, that stance is nice, thatsupnow, but it's a lot lower than a 1-3/8" drop. What's really going on there that you haven't told us?

thatsupnow

Hahaha the springs are supposed to be 1 3/8" drop but I'm sure they've sagged just a tiny bit more with all the **** I've got up in the engine bay now. The weight of the Iron block LS is no joke I believe it's like 187 lbs bare, all forged internals, VS racing 80mm T6 turbo, intercooler, piping etc etc. It all adds up I guess

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I have the KYB's in my GTA, at the time they fit my budget (which was not Koni's, or Bilsteins). But 10+ years later, they have definitely given up. Body control is...questionable. Its nowhere near as bad as hoopty territory where the car bounces for a minute after a bump. But on compression they definitely compress way too much, even though the rebound is still controlled well enough.

I will probably go for something like Koni Yellow's this time around, if not an out-right adjustable pro-touring shock. I did purchase a set of Vogtland springs, they are still on a shelf. I'm more leaning towards weight jacks anyways.

vinny R

This is exactly what I have with stock springs. My buddy and I took the car an hr. to the range and he could not get over how good the car rides. My wife also comments on how smooth the car is also. With those suspension parts you get handling and don't sacrifice the ride. I set my shocks over 3 years ago and never touch them. Tires also make a big difference in the ride and if you got NO-Profile tires that is not helping. I have a set of Vogtland rear springs just sitting there in the garage. Have had them 2 years or more now and just like the ride to much to make the change.[/QUOTE]

I am replying to my post cause I finally had the springs put on the rear last week. I used the Founder's Perf. LCARB also. They dropped the car as advertised @ almost a 1.5"drop. Went from 28"at the bottom of the fender to just over 26'5". The front fender bottom is @ 26", stock springs in the front. The ride, I am quite pleased to say the least. It really does not seem different. Still rides smooth, I even went over the RR tracks as my ultimate test. The only difference is it will bottom out sooner if the bump is extreme, the jolt didn't feel much harsher that with stock springs. It takes some rear travel away but that is expected. I do like the way it leveled out the cars stance as I never was a fan of 2" rake I had and the rear fender. Overall I like these and will keep them on the car. Went for a cruise with the wife and got her approval

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I have weight jacks with 800 lb/in springs on the front with Koni yellow struts and it's really not that rough. It can be jarring over bumps at lower speed (like in the city) but otherwise is controlled wheel motion with good travel, have never bottomed the front. My car does ride rough though (some would say it rides really bad) but I've concluded the rear is mostly responsible for that. Unfortunately I've never been able to get the rear to take bumps as good as the front, not even close as good even with double adjustable shocks.

Push the car hard though and it rides smooth as silk. Stiff suspension has a place but it's not at the speed limit, you've got to drive like a maniac to see what it's good for. The track is the only place you can do that without looking for flashing blue lights.

That said, shocks do wonders for ride quality and I think some people that complain about rough ride could have a much better ride if they had only spent more money on better shocks. Good shocks are not cheap. Outstanding shocks are outrageously expensive. Koni yellow is the best front strut you can get for our cars before the price point goes stratospheric -- And the Koni's are plenty expensive these days! Rear shocks are a different story and are much more affordable. Even double adjustable rear shocks are just a few hundred dollars. Controlling all that unsprung weight of rear axle is the real trick though.

But more often than not, I think a lot of people just set ride height too low and are slamming into the bump stops during normal driving. The front has quite a bit of suspension travel, the rear has less. The rear bump stops are set up to keep your tire from tucking above the fender lip, so if you have only an inch between tire and fender then you have less than an inch of suspension travel and you'll be on the bump stops during normal driving. Tightening up the chassis with subframe connectors and a steering brace will help with the "crashing" noises over bumps. But the ride is going to be bone jarring if you don't stay off the bump stops except in the most extreme conditions.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I've also had better luck with constant rate springs in the rear than I have with variable rate spring. Not necessarily in terms of ride quality, but in terms of vehicle control. I have some extra Go Dog Go under the hood, and with tires spinning my car will wag like a SOB using normal rear springs. Put in constant rate springs and the car becomes super predictable and goes straight down the road. I can't explain why, it just does, and the difference is like life and death.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yes, height is adjustable but weight jacks ALWAYS have high spring rates because the spring is so short. This requires really good shocks. My front springs are 800 lb/in and that's on the soft side for a weight jack. A lot of people are in the 1000 - 1200 lb/in range, tailored more for track use. To put it in perspective, that's anywhere from 2x to 4x more than stock!

Just want to make sure people know what to expect with weight jacks, it's not all puppies and roses. I've actually been considering going back to conventional springs on the front to get more extension in suspension travel. Basically softer spring with large sway bar, more like modern cars.

jbates346

@@LAFireboyd Great reply. I am actually running into this very problem right now. Thanks for sharing your experience!

SbFormula

Deleted

SbFormula

@QwkTrip you nailed it!!!

My Koni Yellow made so much difference on smoothness, the car felt new.

I would add, that reinforcing the chassis, fixing rattles and dampening material can do wonders.

My '91 Formula Restomod is smoother than my bone stock '89 Camaro.IROC-Z with very low milage. Why? The Formula has dampening material, chassis reinforcement, Eiback prokit with Koni Yellow, poly bushings all around and most rattles fixed. My '89 Camaro flexes and rattles. I replaced struts and shocks with OEM style and it did not change the ride (the back shocks were shot)! The springs are far from firm.

I started addressing every rattles on the Camaro and it's getting better (back seats, hatchback, T-Top, T-Top handles and doors). The T-Tops are lexan and crack non stop. The T-Top handles were loose and ringing like bells. The doors were making loud bangs when hitting a bump on the road as they were loose. It sounded like the car was coming apart. I also ordered subframe connectors to reinforce the chassis. Can't wait to see the difference. I am thinking of ordering the Koni Yellow to help with the ride. All suspension bushings look ok.

If I drive the Camaro for an hour and switch to the Formula, everything feels really tight and the ride is smoother.... Should be the other way around right?

Chassis flexing, rattles, worn out suspension bushings and run of the mill struts and shocks can make a ride very rough.

Of course on a nice road, the Camaro becomes smoother and the Formula louder and rougher... because I push the Formula (400hp) with loud exhaust and cruise with the Camaro (220hp) in overdrive...