tchampton

ik there is already a few post over this but I cant find the answer I need I have a 89 firebird formula 305 I pulled the motor cleaned everything put a new oil pump double roller timing kit 4* advanced at the crank lt1 cam new rings tbi spacer ported the tbi new valves new 1.6 rockers new z28 springs new Dizzy new plugs new wires new coil my prob is I have it back in the car im a tech in town and im having trouble when I assembled the enigen I did the dot to dot method and made the common mistake and put the dizzy at tdc#1 well I move it 180* still I crank on my car no start I have fire fuel compression I have my valves at 0 lash and I still cant the car to start im stressing I gotta get it running in 2 weeks for college iv tried everything I could think of everything is torqued to spec I started with #1 tdc finger over the hole tell I felt compression the stab the dizzy then made sure the bug was facing #1 I have my plugs in 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 fireing order I can get the tbi to catch on fire but I have moved it 180* a few times trying to get this to work the car has open headers at the moment idk if that matters or not but plz give your 2cents on the matter I have spent lots of hours reading and I am still dead set its a timing prob

tchampton

well since no one is chiming in im gonna pull it back down to the timing chain and put it at 0* at the crank I don't really got time to play the wait a few day game

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

Patience is a virtue. 4 hours between posts. People have jobs and cant always reply. Its a waiting game. Im playin the game myself currently. Only getting help from like 1 or 2 people. Anyways, as I just went through an Lt1 install in my LO3, ill try to help. If you installed dot to dot your fine. Pull the dizzy and i pulled the dside valve cover to watch the #1 intake valve close as i spin the motor over by hand so i know when timing mark comes around I should be at #1 compression. In my case i put aftermarket timing cover on which moved my timing tab so what i thought was 0 TDC turned out to be like 8 to 10 degrees retarded and i was shooting flames out the intake. If your mark is in stock location then bring the mark up to 0 and drop the dizzy in. Rotor directly on #1 wire terminal or slighly after. Hopefully it fires and adjust base timing. Lt1 thread said 8 degrees advance.

tchampton

Yeah I ran out of time waiting so I tore it back down to the timing Chain but what happen was I did not know about degreeing the cam since I advanced the crank 4* so I just set everything at 0* put it back and it fired right up it shot lots of flames from exhuast an tbi but it quit doing that once I dove it a bit I did. It really mess with timing on dizzy but I got it running and have all the bugs worked out and yeah I under stand the job thing sadly I'm a tech for a dealership and I did little more then what I thought I knew but hey mess ups. Teach us stuff but one thing I'm not sure can I run my 1.6 roller rockers or do I need to keep my 1.5?

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

On a stock (unmodified head) you should stay with 1.5's. LT1 cams lift pretty much puts the head at its max allowable lift of about .450-.460 ish. Now you could run 1.6's but you'd have to get machine work done to the heads. SO if your heads are stock then stay with the 1.5's. If your looking for improvements then consider ordering an EPROM chip tuned for your car. I say that since you threw an LT1 cam in the car, it is not even close to running as optimal as it can using the stock tune. This is where I am at in my LO3 LT1 build. I am learning to program my own chip/write my own tune (definitely frustrating). No disrespect but in your case your better off (as I stated) getting a mail order tune because it's apparent your not very patient and if your not patient for the simple stuff then you'd DEFINITELY not have the patience for tuning your own PROM. Just an FYI.

tchampton

Lol normally I am but I had to get the car running so I could go to college half way across the state the only reason I was stressing about it and yeah I thought about get the mail order tune but right now I got got shorty headers 3inch single exhuast lt1 cam tbi spacer msd ignition system dizzy coil and wires and open element I did not expect to see a big gain unless I change heads and tune

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

Your not too far off from me with your combo.

LT1 Cam
COMP Cams Valve Springs 981-16
Double roller Timing set
081 heads (full cast cleanup/gasket matched intake and exhaust/bowl blend/guides smoothed) instead of the Swirl port 187's
Eddy 1 5/8 to 2 1/2 collector shorty headers (open Y-pipe for now... Making my own muffler)
Dominator (carb intake) with TBI to Carb spacer
Slightly ported TBI (Ultimate TBI)
Open element air cleaner (IAT still hooked up)
A.I.R delete
EGR delete


Thing runs RICH as a PIG @ lower RPM's, borderline burns the crap out of your eyes.

Unless tuned right, some power is left on the table.

tchampton

I did the tbi mods to and I'm also running double roller timing chain air delete I can tell a diffeance but ik I'll see a drastic change when I do heads and intake and tune I Also gotta change out my 273 gears thinking about going 373 posi .. Did u get a mail order tube for yours tell you get down all the Tuneing stuff?

Fireflier12

Make sure the balancer is at TDC. Reset everything by making sure plug 1 is at TDC first, then check if the balancer is lining up to that too. Maybe the balancer has slipped.

tchampton

I got it running now but thank you for chiming in

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

No. I dont want anyone doing the work for me, I would rather get help to understand and do it myself... Aside from the engine everything else is stock. No gear or convertor or shift kits. I don't wanna get too carried away as the car is sonner or later getting a different motor anyways. It runs alright with the stock tune (you can drive it around no problem) just far from optimal.

tchampton

Yeah mine runs good just reall weak off the line but when it gets higher rpm it goes good but I plan to out a 383 in it when I finish college I got the block at home just gotta Bulid it but I also got a twin turbo 5.3 I'm building for my 91 bird I kinda stopped on all the stuff tell I get done with school

tchampton

Hey guys I'm about to tear back into this in a few months but I bought some 416 heads mild port but I'm gonna rebulid them and port them more and polish them that shoul help a lot over stock tbi heads and my plan for a intake is get a dual plane intake for a carb and build or buy an adapter to put the tbi on and I'm gonna run my 1.6 rockers I also ordered my 3.73 gears today I hope to make atleast 250hp after I get my tune what do you guys think I was gonna put on the dyno hear at school but they said we can't because we don't have a way to get rpm signal

Formula 305

Why can't they get RPM signal? Sounds like they just don't want to do it with an older car. I call bullshit

tchampton

Idk it's our schools dyno they said the mostly use it to drive the school cars on since they can't drive them on the road and idk if they have a obd1 connector

Formula 305

They shouldn't need an OBD 1 connector. They can get the signal straight from the coil.

But schools are like that. Since its older they view it as basically obsolete for educational purposes and don't want to be bothered. The shop at my brothers school generally doesn't touch anything older than 10 years. I think part of that is because they don't want to deal with rusty **** tho.

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

What Formula 305 said. They could reference a signal from the coil just like every other muscle car has SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. lol. What do they need an RPM signal for, the DYNO? Now I'm not familiar with what inputs a dyno needs but I too call BS. They're either lazy or too stupid to figure it out. That's my take. Maybe they're afraid you might actually put down some power and hurt their PRECIOUS DYNO. HAHA.

GEE, I wonder how they run cars on the dyno that dont even utilize an ECM at all? Voodoo Magic maybe?

tchampton

Lol well I'll ask them today in class why we can't do it off the coil lol and I don't think I'll make any power lol we did a 2013 5.0 stang we have up here it only made 412 but hey said the dyno was not working righ but idk which wire would it be off the coil I'm not sure but I would love to get it dynod

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

Most likely a white wire... You in school, dont you have access to diagrams?
(gotta log in to TGO to see my attached pic. Click on thumbnail and pic will open up).. That should be the general schematic.

Formula 305

A dyno needs an RPM signal to calculate horsepower. Dyno's measure torque, and then use torque and RPM to calculate horsepower.