dbarker02

i just swapped my 84 305 4bbl engine for an exsact replica from 85. Now i need to rebuild the old engine because it was totally blown... every ring & seal is cooked from wear & tear of the previous owner.... Can you guys give me the best setup to rebuild this engine w/ (heads, rockers, cam.. etc etc etc)? It would really help me out alot.. Thanx Drew

ede

best for what?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The best setup for a rebuild would be a 350 block.

And I'm serious about that.

Don't waste machine shop money on a 305 block. $'s/HP, it just doesn't make sense. If you were trying to jaz up a viable 305 shortblock, I'd recommend things along the line of the mods in my sig. For a 350 rebuild, do the same things, with hypereutectic pistons and 350-style heads.

dbarker02

i want to keep it a 305... its not a high horespower car but somethin that draws attention... best setup for street driving... thanx guys

rezinn

If you ever want some power, ditch the 305. Even rebulding it would be a waste of money. I blew my 305 a few months back and it was cheaper to find a 350 than to rebuild that bore deficient sludged up block.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Your sig says, and I quote:
"Future plans
------------------------------------------------
New high performance engine"

It doesn't say, "New high performance 305 engine."

If you want to keep the 305, use the '85 in there now. It has the flat-top pistons that you really want, and if it's running okay (good compression, not burning oil), then you can leave the shortblock basically as-is and mod around it.

Wait, is this really an '85 Caprice 305? If so, I have no idea about the flat tops. It'd still be okay, though.

My mod'd 305 is at least "...somethin that draws attention". Especially when it wraps up to 6000 RPMs and is still pulling (sounds pretty impressive doing it). However, for less money than rebuilding that 305 and tweaking it out, a 350 with cam & exhaust will also draw attention.

So, which is it: "high performance engine", or "somethin that draws attention"? I have both, while maintaining the street driving part, but for another $600-800, it would have done all of those even better with a 350.

Funny thing about power - kinda like money. How much is enough?

"Just a little bit more."

dbarker02

WEll a 350 would be much much better but my parents bought a brand new comp last winter because the old one froze & the board on it cracked in 2. so i have a factory replacement computer that cost way too much & i really dont want to waste it.... so 305 it will more than likely be... opinions on how to freshen up a 305 to be "high performance" aka: street car that does decent in a 1/4 mile. Thanx...

pyro

I saw a 305 do a 14 1/4 mile one time .... one time

here is what I suggest if money is tight DON'T DO IT
you will just make yourself miserable because you will never have what you want if money is kinda tight go to a junk yard and get a carb and intake off a 350 make sure that it has a four barrel on it it will improve power a lot but you will have to get a cam new do a lot of home work and get a good cam dont just take any idiots advice do it yourself

but If you got the money to spend I strongly recomend
the edelbrock proflo efi on a 350 a set of holly heads
and whetever cam edelbrock recomends
I put one of these on a 71 nova for a friend and wow this thing is awsome

now if you want to stay in the carburated middle ground on money
get a rochester carb lika a quad jet and rpm air gap I like mine
run it at about 9.5:1 compressionwith a good cam you should be in 300 hp range with a 350 with a 305 get a carb that fflows less maby 600 cfm

as for rocker arms and stuff you seem to not want to spend the extra money getting power out of a bigger engine and as for the comp you can get them from jet for like $125

Flamingo

Isn't the only difference in computers between the 305 and the 350 just the chip?
Somewhere in the history of my car the engine and wiring were all fooked up, so I would love to get a 350 dropped in there, but that takes money and equiptment I don't have right now. Until then I will try to keep my 305 running decently (and everything else on the car, right now having probs with steering gear box).

camaro6spd

the 5spd 305s run in the 14s....thank you very much....stock...The G92 TPIs....yeah.....one big point...HE HAS THE BLOCK and HE WANTS TO GO THAT ROUTE...LET HIM GO...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'll only let him go if he understands why he's doing what he's doing. I don't think that's the case, yet.

If you have to change the computer to get a CC carb'd 350 to run properly with a computer-compatible cam in it, I've got a hat that I will gladly boil and consume. Even if you DO need to change the computer, the cost of that ECM is peanuts compared to the $'s/HP you'd lose building a 305 block.

It doesn't make economic sense to rebuild a 305. If you have some rare collectible 3rd gen that needs a numbers-matching 305 block to maintain its value, then perhaps. But, how many of those have you run across lately?

Certainly not a sports coupe.

Pyro, what in the blazes are you talking about? Proflow and Holley heads? A properly set-up CC carb 350 will outrun that combo any day of the week. Taking Edelbrock's recommendations on a cam? That's like taking the fox's recommendations on henhouse security.

No matter what route you take, you HAVE to take care of exhaust and air intake - headers and high-flow rest of the system, and at least a dual-snorkel air cleaner.

pyro

you may be right about cam selection but I do not belive that to be the case
here is the world as I understand it edelbrock made the intake and computer so it would stand to reason that they would recomend a particular cam
however like I said do your homework dont call the guy at jegs for a cam they sell whatever they have the most of in stock
or screw you cause your an idiot
a cam is a very application specific part selecting the right one can in a way be the make or break feature. I am not saying it is the only thing just that it requires the most homework to get it right the manufacurer would have info that you may not and for a street application they wont try to mess you up its theyer reputation

as for the carb being better I want what you smoke
look fuel injection easier to tune fewer moving parts and a computer to figure it all out not to mention its adaptable to different air pressures like you dont lose power in the mountains
now
carbs
I have spent years trying to understand and maby I just have a mental block but I still have trouble tuneing a carb its hard
and for a kid who may be reciving poor or no tech advice in person
it may be impossable

but I guess everyone does it different in one way or another

dbarker02

five7kid i understand exsactly what im doing... i want to put a 350 in it i really really do, but i just happen to have everything i need for the 305, minus the upgrades.... All i asked for was what was the best setup for it, not what i could do w/ a 350.. thanx for your help neway but almost everyone else seems to understand a little better about what i wanna do.

Once again.. so i can get a clean start on this post.. What is the best setup for a 305 4bbl comp controlled engine? I want it mainly for street driving & every now & then the 1/4 mile. thanx

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You started by saying you were going to rebuild the blown 305, and continued saying that. So, that drove my responses.

I'll go back to my earlier recommendation to work around the 305 you're now running. Forget the blown engine. It's a boat anchor.

Go up and look over my sig (the Camaro part). I have a daily driver that is quite capable (and fun) on the street, and holds its own for that occasional 1320. I still need to fix the 148k-miles tranny to get it to shift from 2-3 at WOT. But, the only changes I would make for more performance are the torque converter (smaller diameter, higher stall, higher quality), and gears. If you need to save some money, have 1.94 intake valves put in the heads off of the blown 305, and port them good & proper.

Pyro, the only things I smoke are tires and the competition...

dbarker02

thanx, sorry bout that. I would work with the running engine but i need the car just about everyday. so building up the old one & waiting for a chance to drop her in is the best option. Thanx for all the help.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not to be a broken record, but that being the case, find yourself a 350 builder and work it over while you drive your current 305.

Really, that makes much more sense. Rebuilding a 305 block is like putting pearls on a pig. If it weren't true, you wouldn't hear "Get a 350" so much.

Rage13

dbarker, if you want the 305 then go for it! as for every one else, he hears what your saying so no need to repeat it...
when i went out to buy my car, every one said "Get a small cheap car, like a (honda, toyoda, etc.)" and i listend to none of them and got a third gen higher insurance, and alot more gas but i love it.. so for those of you who havn't gotten it by now, let the guy have his 305, if thats what he really wants he'll be happier with it

dbarker02

thanx rage... getting a 350 builder around here is tough to do for cheap. I just happen to have the complete 305, carb intake everything cause the new engine came w/ everything on it.... i do mean everything. I moved only the starter between the two engines. That said & done.. the 305 is what i have, its what i want, & its what will be used. I still havnt gotten a clear answer on what i want so im gonna get specific....

what heads should i use,rockers,pistons,cam etc etc etc? id like to know so i can start buildin it up. thanx for the help

Deemax

iTrader: (1)

In the words of Rodney King...."Can't we all just get along"

IMHO...if the guy wants a 305...let him have his 305! Value and satisfaction are perceived...its what you think is good, not what someone else does. Sure, I yanked my 305 for a 350 and couldnt be happier...but if barker has his heart set on the 305...he'll never be happy with a 350.

And barker, as for specific mods, I can't help ya there, but....its been my experience, especially on a daily driver, to always go just a little bit more conservative than your heart really wants to, and concentrate on upgrading everything just a little bit rather than doing one thing to the extreme (a radical cam with a stock computer will give ya nothing but headaches...ported heads on stock exhaust manifolds still won't flow worth a dam*...monster carbs alone do NOT make a race car...etc.) Just like the manufacturers, the aim is compatability and efficiency. After all the work I did, I'm only putting out about 260 HP....it sure would be nice to say I had 300, but I'd rather have trouble free reliability that I can get out and enjoy, than bragging rights to something that has me under the hood every other day cause it just doesn't run right.

Just my 2 cents...

streetrunner

YES 305 POWER... It's really cool to say, "you have just been waxed by a 3 0 5"
Well im going with vette L98 alum. heads (polished), TPI, SLP Headers, Lunati cam, 3.5 inch mufflex cat-back, and 3.42 gears (i have a 5 speed). I just want to get to the 13's and in the 5's for 0-60. No looking down, what do yall think about that setup and improvments? MONEY is a BIG issue tho.

Z_Ghost

I am rebuilding the 305 in my B4C right now.
It's getting line honed, square decked, bored and honed with a deck plate.
Not sure about pistons yet, the machinist is looking to see what he can find, If he can not find anything suitable then I will go with KB pistons.
The crank is getting turned and blanched.
Cam is going to be from comp cams. Cam #08-501-8
212 218 488 495 112
Heads, I was going to port the stock one, but 1 head has a crack in it so I am going with the World heads. I will pocket port them and put on guild plates so I can use my old set of roller tipped rockers.
Porting the TPI intake and Plenum.
Car all ready has Eldebrock headers on it and a flowmaster cat back.

Would I make more power with a 350... Yes I would, but this will make a really nice 305 and it will run just fine for me..


Now the Z will get at least a 383 and make LOTS of HP.

NTChrist

305's will respond nearly the same way to mods, as a 350 would (except for the lack of cubes related power ).
Get a slightly bigger cam than reason would suggest, go with as high of a compression as you are willing to run on the street, and spend your money buying a well-thought out induction and exhaust. If you're looking for a parts list, or secret recipe for power, pick up a Summit/Jeg's catalogue, and start reading.
One good thing about the 305 is that, despite what SLP says, a 305 can get away with 1 1/2" primary headers, which can be had for HUNDREDS of dollars cheaper than good 1 5/8" headers. I never thought that 1/8" would cost so damn much.

Of couse, if it was my car, I'd buy a junkyard 350, and spend the $$$ there...

RedFirebird

This shouldn't even be a discussion. You just mention all this stuff like what heads, rockers, cam, etc you should use on your 305. By the time you **** away a bunch of money on that stuff, buying some 350 shortblock core will be pocket change, and freshening it should cost the same if not less and you will not only make a lot more power with the same parts but there will be ample room to make even more power. You said you wanted something "high-performance". A 170 hp LG4 is not high-performance. So in the end you'll end up getting a 350 or something along that order inevitably. Look at all the quick cars on these boards. They all have 350 and 400's, and all the variations in between, or big blocks sitting under the hood. Oh yeah and i can't forget you guys with 231's .My corvette's motor ate a few valves not too long ago. I already had big plans for the car, this just spead it up. You think i'm going to throw another lo-po 350 longblock in there for the meantime? HELL NO. I have a new 377 with all the nice parts (don't cut corners) sitting in my garage waiting for a few odds and ends. I guess the moral of the story is don't do the same thing twice to accomplish one end.

screaminformula

im gonna open a WHOLE new can o' worms here...I am the proud owner of an '87 Formula WS6 with the (dare i say?) TPI 305 (there, i said it, please don't hurt me?!) and the T5 manual. i am in a bind, i know 350's are said to be so superior and i DO belive you guys, i know the 350 is a WORLD CLASS motor and anyone who says any different if fu(k!n stoopid. but i cant see throwin away a PERFECTLY GOOD 305 complete with roller cam (from L98 350 anyways...). so the only solution is (in my eyes, please serve up any suggestions but please dont just say GET A 350! that is like kickin a dead horse, right? so why not just work with me, huh?) to build one helluva 305. i plan on rebuilding the 123,000 mile original block with a Powerhouse 335 stroker kit (who has used this kit, anyone?!) and i may bore it a wee bit farther, i dont know yet, from there i plan to go with a good set of heads with the 64cc combustion chamber to up the compression ratio on my "beast". any recommendations on heads, come on, i KNOW there are SOME 305 fans out there, geeze, we are always labeled the pocket-protector wearing geeks, lol! then i will go with an aftermarket intake to be determined later also (suggestions in this area would be appreciated as well.) and from there just any mods that "tickle my fancy" and help to cure my "need 4 speed"! please dont write a whole bunch of 305 hater responses, come on people, its a GM SMALLBLOCK for ***'s sake, it can be worked with! it just needs some help/support. thanks for reading this, have a nice day!

Ride4ME

well said

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Horribly said, actually.

"...rebuilding the 123,000 mile original block with a Powerhouse 335 stroker kit"? Yes, people have done it. $800 just for the rotating parts, plus the block work, plus the extra work of clearancing the pan rails (and likely problems with rod bolts & cam lobes). $1000, and you still need all of the rest of the rebuild/performance stuff. When you do finally get it all together, you'll have 20 cubic inches less than a .030"-over 350, with the valve-shrouding 3.766" bore of the 305 design, you're way behind the rebuilt 350, $'s/HP-wise. "Unique"? Yes. And in the 1320 or auto-x, that will buy you - What?

I know it isn't alway easy to find a 350 builder. But, if you can't find one for less than $1000, then you simply aren't trying hard enough.

"...64cc combustion chamber to up the compression ratio"? Right, since stock 305 heads are 58cc, going with 64cc will drop you a little over a point.

305 haters? I'll repost my sig so you don't have to scroll up and down on this post. Think again.

Look, I've said it so many times, I should just make a continious tape. But, I'll say it once again. If your 305 lower end is in good shape, go ahead and modify it in a manner similar to what I've done. It WILL respond to the "typical" SBC mods because it is a SBC. BUT, if the lower end needs rebuilding (rings, pistons, bearings), you're wasting your money. That when you go out and find the 350 builder.

screaminformula

umm, what rebuilding stuff? the kit has EVERYTHING in it, cylinders, pistons, crank, etc...Jesus Christ people

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Cam, lifters, gaskets, rockers, valve job, resizing rods (if necessary), rod bolts (a good idea), pressing pistons onto rods...

One of the most common mistakes people make when starting a project is not knowing all the little "details", and the associated costs. The next is mis-matching parts, and right after that, putting money into the wrong base.

Rebuilding a 305 block is putting money into the wrong base.

And, you have my permission to refrain from using my Savior's name in vain in your responses...

evil t/a

Five7kid I understand exactly what you are saying. But since most of the people here are likely teens logic and common sense will not work all of the time.

ede

got to agree with evil on this one. i think five7 is wasting his time talking to people who don't listen

iroc22

Grrrrrr we're not all like that.


Why do these posts always go this way?

I can see where the camp is split anyway.

Where's the debate? any engine with a 4-inch bore will make more power than one with a 3.736 bore.

evil t/a

I know

screaminformula

just as an update to all you people who say us teens "don't" listen: i needed some time to listen to all of your advice/criticism and some time to review numbers/prices and i have come to a decision. the new engine for my 1987 Formula WS6 will be none other than, are ya'll ready, the 383 STROKER!!!!!!!!!! so its not that we DON'T listen, just sometimes our "processors" are slow. so could ya'll please stop the criticism now, huh? and what are everyones suggestions for building a 383? you know, certain kits to use/avoid, heads, intakes (im sticking w/TPI), etc...thanks guys