gruveb

Anybody have any experience working on FORDS?

Seems like I never "get" (notice "get" not "HAVE") to work on my camaro anymore. It's been running perfectly for a while, no problems. I want to get my denero saved up so I can finish my exhaust but that'll be a while b/c everything else is breaking!

Here's the vehicle:

1983 Ford Bronco
351 small block
C 6 tranny

The Bronco has trouble starting. It fires immediately after turning over, but seems to make only one revolution and dies.

Then, after it starts, it often dies when I put it into gear. Also some hesitation if I gun it from a stand still.

It doesn't matter anymore if it is warm or cold, although when the problem first started it only did it when it was warm.

Once it starts and I have let it run for a few minutes, it runs well. Plenty of power, doesn't get hot, fuel effeciency is normal.

I changed the plugs this weekend, and will replace the coil, cap, rotor and plugs next weekend.

If this doesn't fix my problem, what next?

Is adjusting the timing pretty straight forward?

The other message boards I've used, well, they suck! So if someone is humble enough to admit they've worked on one, maybe even own a Ford, please help me.

Fast3rdGen

the solution to all your ford problems......."Built Ford Tuff With Chevy Stuff" swap it over to a sbc and turbo tranny lol.

sorry i can't be of any help but i can tell you that my grandfather had the same problem with a 84 F350 duallie with a 460 and he never did figure it out and eventually sold it. dam ferds!!!!
the guy that bought it said that it could be the ignitor or the module in the deistributor. i dunno how or if he got it fixed as i never saw him again. maybe try testing the ignition components.

oh and here are some other acronyms ya can use lol

Fast Only Rolling Downhill
F*cked Over Rebuilt Dodge
F*cked On Race Day
read backwards: Drivers Return On Foot

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's it! Describes my Ford to a tee!

Well, I always called it "Found On Road Dead", but same effect.

1 week before I sold it, I figured out it was the ignition control box. They used to be rather expensive, but volume has brought the price down.

Get my drift?

Bort62

LOL

Id check the ignition Module )

rjmcgee

http://www.ford-trucks.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

Might try that place. Don't know how much info you will find, I mostly just use the diesel forum.

I know that my Powerstroke has made many parts runs for the Camaro. Even hauled it home a couple times.

Vader

Yeah, Navastar/International built a fairly decent Ford there....

As for the Buckin' Bronco, is it running a carb? After checking the ignition control on the inner fender (yeah, Bort, they were a very popular item form about '78-86), check into the fuel system to cure teh problem of dying when placed in gear.

gruveb

It's funny. This thing is the HO engine, runs a 2 barrel carb.

I bought it extremely cheap, the body is straight and it ran well when I got it. Now it still runs well, after it starts.

I'll check the ignition module first.

Oh, "Driver returns on foot" proves that Fords are satanic vehicles, "Ford" is a backmasked ackronym!

edit: Is there any way to check the components of the ignition withOUT just swapping parts? When it's my camaro, it's just an excellent excuse to upgrade (to upgrade this I'd buy a Blazer!), but I'd like to perhaps do some real detective work instead here.


I am going to change cap/rotor and such anyhow, but if it is the big stupid FORD box..........how do I check it?

gruveb

By the way, just for everybody's view pleasure, I will post some pictures of the..............mess.

Some previous owner ripped the emissions junk out, ripped the AC out, the cruise control stuff out, everything that wasn't totally "essential" .

Then he wrapped everything up in tape, but did a very sloppy job of it. So I have to pull junk off of the manifolds all of the time. Not knowing what I can rip out and what I need to keep, I've been too spineless to jump in their with some wire cutters to clean it up.

rjmcgee

Ford haters.

:hail: Ford

slayer2000

iTrader: (1)

I think most auto parts stores can test the module. I had three mid to late 70's jeeps that all had 2 barrel motorcrap carbs and ford ignition setups. I think that last one I bought at autozone was about $15.00 and they tested my old one to make sure it was bad. Just ask them to test it four or five times(takes about 1 minute each test). That last one of mine would work fine until it got warm then boom, nothing. I would also check your fuel filters and lines and then check for vacuum leaks. Good luck, working on a ford you'll need it

ede

ford has or had a lot of problems with the pip senser inside the distributor and the ignition control box. i've rebuilt a few SBFs and one 460. in high school neighbor had a duel 4 427 fairlane ,great car, he use to let me clean parts and stuff for him. your problem sounds like it may be in the carb to me or vacuum related, but i'm a dumbass most of the time.

gruveb

Here's some pics of the rat's nest. I took rather broad pictures, but if you like zoom in to see the real mess. Hundreds of wires just dangling, some cut, some leading to relays that are floating in space and so on.

gruveb

Pic 2

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Funny thing about Fords and Chevy's. I contract for a living and used to own Chevy's put on lots of miles fully loaded, finally got tired of spending weekends wrenchin on the truck instead of toys. Finally bought a Ford against ALL my buddies wishes-I'm the only one with the blue oval-My money has been well spent, weekends are free to race/and wrench on the race car-oh that happens to be a GM product too. Maybe if I bought a Mustang to race I could just weld that hood shut like I'm about to on my truck. I always make it a point to my friend when where traveling on the hwy from job to job-take notice at what's usually pulling the big travel trailers, hog trailers, job trailers. In todays market Ford and Dodge are the only ones still making true 3/4 & 1 tons with the live front axles for 4x4's. GM switched their thinking and are producing bigger model el camino's. Looks like a truck, but rides and hauls like a car-just what real men need. Also, GM finally got smart and farmed out their drive train on the HD's, Isuzu motors and Allison trannies-the ONLY thing that will last in a GM chasis. Ever notice how you can buy GM parts so cheaply-cause the damn things break down soo much they have to have parts at every 7-11 on every corner to keep them going, mass quanity-cheaper parts.
Okay-flame on my friends-flame on!!!
P.S. I'd also like to point out that my FORD has pulled my buddies Chevy out of many snow drifts-never vise versa, heck he had a hole in his yard that the back tire fell in and could'nt even pull itself out of that and it's a 3/4T 4x, I just grin everytime he pops the hood or I need to take out my chain and rescue him. Okay GM boys now u can flame. Just a warning, though, I did a background research on GM and when the name was patented in 1923 it is under Gay Men- all rights reserved of course-food for thought.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Is your Ford an '83 model?????

gruveb

Despite loyalties and LUCK (which is a lot of it), they all have their flaws. I've had 3 Fords now, an F-150, a Bronco II and a Bronco. I've never been able to keep the hood down on any three of them. I'll give the Bronco the benefit of the doubt until I get into it and see what I can work out, but the other two were worthy of the salvage lot.

I do know that Dodge makes a good truck, and that's probably the only reason they are still in business. Their cars BLOW.

I know that I've had extremely good luck with my GM cars, unbelievable durability.

One problem with every Ford I've had is that it seems like little, cheap things that have no business breaking, break. For example, have you ever seen an early 80's ford with a working tach? Door locks, breaking, my uncles 95 F 350's ignition is shot, you can pull the key right out while it is running, without turning the switch.

However, I believe that part of the GM idea is to create lower costs by using parts for Olds, Caddy, Pontiac, Chevy and GMC. That's why the parts are cheaper, not because they are lower quality.

gruveb

5/7, yep. 83, carbed. 2 barrel, 351W

Tom 400 CFI

Ugh! Ignorance at it's best. If you need a SFA and a buck-board ride to feel like a "real man" I'm really sorry for you. The reality is that the Chevy HD front end can take as much punishment as anything I've seen and hold up just as well. Hummer's must REALLY suck, seeing as they have all wheel independant suspension, eh?

OK, now I'm sold on Ford trucks. With THAT precision, and very scientific endorsement, who wouldn't want a Ford? LOL, That's like the peel-out dyno on the V-6 board.

To the original poster,
It sounds to me like your needle & seat in the carb is worn. This will cause presurised gas behind the seat -from the pump- to bleed into the float bowl, over filling it. Fuel will then run throught the main circuit into your manifold.

The engine fires on the first rotation from the mixure left in the cylinders after the last shut down, and then immediately floods out, IMO. To verify this, after the vehicle has sat for awhile, remove the air filter, disconnect the accelerator linkage, open the throttle plates, and look down into the manifold. If you can see wet gasoline puddled on the floor of the intake, replace the needle and seat. If it is dry, that is not the problem.

I have never seen one of those Ford ignition modules work intermitently. In my experience, they either work, or the don't.

KCobain147

I dont have much input on fixin it..but i do have another anagram:
Foolish owner, retarded driver.

SATURN5

First on Race Day.. Owned 5 Gt's or Capri 5.0l over the years, never had one lick of problems other than the 82 RS, seems the spider gears gave during a 1-2 shift. Popped in a 8.8 3.73 posi disc out of a 88 bird and never had problems with it.

As for your Bronco, I'll add check the ground strap, I've seen a couple that would start, rock over on the mounts and lose ground..and stall. Its a long shot but remember K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid). Always looks for the simple stuff before tearing something apart.

Oh..and my last GT had 240K on it when I sold it. Ran like a scalded chimp (14.5s @ 95) on the original engine (lets here it for Mobil1).

Hell my driver is a 69 F-100 shortbed with 86K original farm miles. 240 inline 6,3 on the tree, manual everything. Had it for 5 years, has never left stranded, and my arms look like Arnies j/k She looks like hell, but she next on the list for a frame off. cheers, Bob

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh, keep'em comin. LMAO
Tom, I've attended many meetings, classes, schooling where contractors from abroad get together and talk the talk. At a meeting in MN. there was a contractor from Arizona and another from Alaska, they origianlly started out with Chevy trucks, but with the rough terrain of rocks, hills, and off cambers that plague new constructs, they were finding the GM chasis's to have weaknesses with twisting too much, drivetrain malfunctions, and lack therefore of ground clearance needed on such projects. Many large construction company owners typically buy there vehicles at fleet prices so whomever offers the better deal wins. I've heard time and time again that the Fords followed by Dodge had a lower yearly maintenance cost than the Chevys. So after these findings, these companies would pay the "higher" fleet pricing cause that would be far offset by the cost of maintainence at year end. To me that says alot. No, I don't care for the wash board ride, but, I'm not like 70% of the market that buys a truck to haul the kids bike home from Wal-Mart far a christmas present, then have that be the usefullness for the year. Or to "just have it" My truck, as well as most companies trucks, affect the overall net profit at the end of the year. Everytime myself or whom ever spends a dime on repair it's coming from the buss. account or personal pocket and that's money I'd just assume stay in the account instead of pissing it away. I need my truck to make me money and save me money-my Ford has done both for years, and after talking to major buss. owners that are on the same wave length I'll side with them on the Ford over Chevy issue anyday. I've been on the other side-for 17 years in fact-it's only takin this 1 Ford to switch me over. No, it's not a 83, but I've racked up 30,000mi a year for the past 5 years, like I said loaded everyday with my ladder rack and tool boxes-1500lbs by itself. Then I pull a 20' trailer on a weekly basis also loaded with material. And plow snow every winter. Still never a problem, but I am a fanatic about this vehicles routine maintenance schedule also, cause I need to be.
Still like spittin fuel on the fire, so keep'em comin GDamit

rjmcgee

Did you come up with that all by yourself?

gruveb

I don't want this to turn into a Ford vs. GM post and get locked up.

From help I've found here and some other people I've talked to, I'm 90% sure that it is the carb.

If that works out to be true, I'm not gonna rebuild that little 2 barrel ( for one I am SCARED of working on carbs & I'd prefer a 4 barrel). I don't really want to buy a carb for my Ford, I'd prefer to upgrade my Camaro. Right now I have a 600 cfm edelbrock, electric choke.

I'd like to throw something a little beefier on there. My question is this, how hard is it to set up the kick down throttle linkage on an edelbrock for a Ford?

The money I want to put into this vehicle isn't in the motor. I would rather spend my money on suspension and lift and such. This is a vehicle that will spend a lot of time off road.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Look through your summit or Jegs, they sell all kinds of adapters for the Holley, Edelbrocks for about every scenario. Should be pretty straight foward I would think

Tom 400 CFI

Comment noted, but that is definitely NOT what we have seen in our fleet. We're now down to 1 Ford and soon that will be gone. But a while back we had a split fleet; half Fords half Chevs. This is no joke or exageration here; the parts costs for each Ford were equal to a monthly truck payment!!. That doesn't even include labor! I have the documentation to prove it, and that is the documentation that I used to convince management to get rid of most of the Fords. I could have paid for new trucks right out of my supplies budget, and still been even!! lol. I was the one who made the decision to move to Chevs, and they have done us very well over the past 5 years. I will admit that I was quite leary of the IFS, but figured it couldn't be much worse than the Ford TTB. In 5+years, with almost 20 vehicles, we have replace one lower ball joint, one upper, and two outer tierod ends. That is it. Oh, these trucks are driven exclusively off road. I do less front end work on the entire Chevy fleet than I do U-joints on just one TTB Ford Front end. And that Ford TTB center U-joint is a real pig phucker -5 hour labor for a $12 U-joint; Lame. I won't even get into the Ford E4OD trans, just ask any trans shop about them -lol.

Really it all depends what year you're talking about. I think '73 - '87 Chevy's are garbage cans. Weak, flexy, cracking frames. Junk window regulators. Flexi cab structure. Horrible seats. I could go on and on. I think '88-'95's and up are a massive improvement, but the engines were underpowered. Fixed in '96 with the Vortec. The new ones are even better, Frame and cab rigidity, power, brakes. All good stuff.

As for Fords, I think Pre '80 are the best (relative to same year, other brands) They were stout, and were assembled from good parts (D60, D44, T-18, etc.) But with the advent of the TTB in '80 they went down hill. The introduction of the E4OD made matters worse, and THOSE are some flexy frame rails and cab boxes. Not to mention the tinfoil beds(ever crush one? I did, and it was laughably easy). I think the leaf springs are stiffer than the fraim rails on the F-350's. The frames always crack where the front leaf spring attaches to the front of the frame rail. I think the '98 and up is a MASSIVE improvement, but now they have that guttless "mod" motor -worst in class. (BTW, Hint for you, it isn't really modular - http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb40228.htm -5th paragraph down) I wish Ford had come out with the '98 and newer chassis and cab, but kept the "old" Winsor power using more modern heads, injection, and smaller crank and rod journals on the 351.

To the original poster
You mentioned that the Bronco gets used mostly off road; if this is true, DO NOT use the Edelbrock Carb. For that application, it is a fuel sloshing, flooding out, som-bitch -It doesn't like to be shaken. For that application, a stock carb or a Holley will work far better.

Changing the needle and seat in the stock 2 bbl is a piece of cake. you needn't even remove the carb, or spill any fuel. Take off the air cleaner, remove the air cleaner stud form the carb, and remove all the screws holding the airhorn casting on. Lift off the air horn casting, and there will be your float, with it's needle and seat. R&R is simple and obvious. Adjust float level (spec will come with carb kit) and re-install airhorn, stud and air cleaner. It's really easy. I would say it is WAY easier than trying to adapt on another carb. You can literally do this job in about 10 minutes. Good luck

Morley

Fookin On Road Disaster

gruveb

Tom,

I'll give it a try on your recommendation. I'll let you know how it goes.

Fast3rdGen

i live in an area saturated with farm and construction and 9 out of 10 work trucks here are dodge or chevy. i have also pulled more than one ford (some 4x4) out of the muck with my 2 wheel drive 1 ton GMC Sierra. and to talk about farming work out.......ford's biggest and best motor is an International built diesel motor which still doesn't even compare to the cummins in the dodge. can't remember if gm's new diesel is their own or made elsewhere.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

All the manufactureers farm out their diesals now. Cummings are so frickin loud though, new duramax is a bad SOB-power, mileage, quietness, and the powerstroke is just tried and true. Fast3rdgen, your farming community could benefit from a Ford dealer, I know small towns and the hometown dealer dictates what the town will drive for the most part.
Nothin better than the Ford vs Chevy arguements to fire everybody up, all we need now is some pool tables and alot of beer, then this would be fun.
:hail: FORD

rjmcgee

It's an Isuzu.

Good power but from what I read they are maxxed out on power from the factory. I know that when I can get a tuner for my Powerstroke I will be able to choose between a 60 hp / 115 ft lb or 80 hp / 135 ft lb increase. The higher one will put it at 560 ft lb's. Can't argue with that.

Tom 400 CFI, I hear you about the E4OD, it sucks.

Fast3rdGen

all our big ford dealerships went out of business.......due to lack of business. we do have one dealer that sells chrysler and ford and i can tell you that the chrysler is all that is keeping it open.

aklaim

FORD: Fuct Over Rebuilt Dodge

chacane67

I must say I agree with Tom.

When I was doing drivetrain failure anaylsis, I find this unfortunatly true, but Ford paid my bills for quite awhile. The majority of failures were the differential and yes the infamous AOD. I did something like, 3-4 Broncos a day for months at a time. (I was doing the evaluation for the US Border Patrol and their fleet). But after the correct parts were put in, most of all problems had disappeared. And in retrospect, EVERYBODY is having problems with their transmissions....Ford, Chevy and Dodge. Which is interesting that the 'Big Three' are now consorting to building a trans together, based on GM's current platforms.

I still do a fair amount of off roading (chasing Ivan Stewart and rock crawling) and have nothing other to say than run a Holley. The local Bronco club runs Holley or EFI.........that tells me enough.

gruveb

I know from experience that both of the overdrive autos for Ford's bite, although the electronic one is much better.

I have the C6, which does OK on the highway, but if highway effeciency is more important than strength and reliability, then you need to be driving a car.

For that matter, I have a buddy who built an F-250, slapped a turbo charge deisel (don't remember displacement or anything else) had a dealer add A/C, and took out the tranny and slapped a 4 speed manual in there. Said overdriver trannies were worthless for hauling something.

My C6 blew up about 5000 miles after I drained it without knowing. I got stranded on the side of a trail when a hole rubbed through one of the steel tranny coolant lines. Filled it up, changed the filter and drove it for another 6 months or so before it lost 3rd gear.

Have another buddy who has a 74 Camaro he races (stock car track) and he found a Ford tranny to slap in there, a C 4 I believe.

Take the good with the bad I suppose.