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Old 07-28-2000, 10:37 AM   #1
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Best Motor for a Fiero GT.....

i was thinking about getting a fiero gt to work on next summer... but i dont want a whimpy 2.8L or 3.1 in a sweet looking ride so I was wondering what engine would be good to swap in?
I was thinking of a supercharged 3800 V6 that come in grand prix GTP's at Boneville's, or perhaps a 350, anyways, anyone with any opinions please post... by the way i plan on making this a low 13's car

------------------

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Old 07-28-2000, 11:01 AM   #2
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i would recommend either a Northstar motor from a Caddy or a 3.8 V-6...
just my 2.

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Old 07-28-2000, 11:06 AM   #3
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How in Zeus's ButtHole ar you going to get a 350 in that little tiny Car? And how ar you going to get a tranny to bolt up to it??? IF you put a 350 in the back of that thing you are going to be a professional wheel stander. Everytime you touch the gas you will go up on 2 wheels. Look in PAW there is plenty if performance part for the 2.8. IF you must swap go with a 3800 SC. I don't see any way to put a V-8 in that rollerskate.

-Not a flame, I'm just really baffled.

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Old 07-28-2000, 11:32 AM   #4
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I saw a fiero a few months ago w/a 455 in it.There are quite a few options out there when it comes to engine swaps for a fiero,It just depends on how much $$$$$ you want to spend.These cars are very light,and it doesen't take alot of motor to get them going pretty good.I had a 85 fiero that i sold a couple of months ago that had the 2.5 4 cylinder in it.I had shaved the head and given it a 3-angle valve job,Hand ported the intake,Went to a 160degree thermostat,put in a hi-performance clutch and rebuilt the tranny.I raced a guy at work who has a slightly modified 92civic and beat him by 2 car lenghts in the quarter mile. Just make sure you explore all your options. Click the image to open in full size.

------------------
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Old 07-28-2000, 11:34 AM   #5
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Blown 502 BBC! You said all opinions were welcome right?
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Old 07-28-2000, 11:38 AM   #6
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Personally I would put a V8 in it. This guy sells kits to fit a SBC into a Fiero: V8 Archie He also has complete instructions on how to do the swap on the site. And BTW, you use the stock Fiero tranny, the only really hard thing to fabricate is the exhaust.

------------------
Scott
88 GTA L98
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In search of the elusive 1.9 60 foot time.

[This message has been edited by Scott 88 GTA (edited July 28, 2000).]
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Old 07-28-2000, 11:40 AM   #7
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theres a guy in my area that has a fiero with a 383 tpi motor with a blower on it. thing looked bone stock from outside but must go hell of alot faster than stock

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Old 07-28-2000, 12:13 PM   #8
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I would get a 3.8 turbo like the TTA or GNs.

Or would a 5.0 or mabey even 350 TPI fit?
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Old 07-28-2000, 03:19 PM   #9
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I say 383 TPI.....

------------------
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Old 07-28-2000, 06:02 PM   #10
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The kit to put a 350/305/383 in it costs $1500. Click the image to open in full size. That does NOT include the motor.

The kit to put the Norstar in it costs $3000. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. That also does not include the $3000-$4000 motor. Click the image to open in full size. This does make for an awesome conversion though.

Another option is the quad cam 3.4 that came in some of the early Luminas, but it is rare.

Like you, I want to find the Supercharged 3800 out of a Grand Prix to put in my '88 Fiero. I haven't been able to locate one though, so I am now considering a NA 3800 out of a late 4th gen. They make 200 HP stock, and have quite a few aftermarket parts available for them. That will be fun as hell in a 2300 pound car.

BTW I have seen Fieros with every engine mentioned above in them. They can all be done. The one with the 455 was a piece of $hit. That was some rigged up crap, and it only ran 12s. The other motors can be swapped and still maintain a professional appearance, as well as looking stock until the trunk is opened. Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 07-28-2000, 06:11 PM   #11
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The Fiero's would be a death trap with a v8 in it. Get serious guys, if you want speed, get a bigger car Click the image to open in full size..
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Old 07-28-2000, 06:23 PM   #12
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Tuc,

If you're looking for a base car, try to get a five speed manual (Getrag transmission). The four-speed Muncies are not up to the task and you'll always wish you had overdrive. Cruising 70 MPH at 4,000 RPM just doesn't do the package any justice. I can't imagine the auto transaxles would take much use from a reasonably-built SBC.

In addition, the '84s are alone in their wiring harness from the ECM through the bulkhead. Just something else to contend with if you pick up one of those.

When inspecting the candidate, look closely at the space-frame extensions that outline the rear hatch and cargo area. You can get a pretty good look by viewing upward through the openings just behind the rear wheel housings. A flashlight will reveal and corrosion in these areas. This is a weak spot on all Fieros. Also look closely at the 'A' pillar area below the window line - another area that accumulates moisture and begins to rust.

If you do find a good project car, keep a few things in mind. At 2,600 lbs. with 400+ HP, the little car will scoot right along with the big boys in the mirrors. The big scare is when the front end starts to generate lift and the car begins to float around when you hit triple-digits in the speedometer. You'll have to plan something to keep air from under the front of the car.

The stock-size radiator with three cores is generally adequate for up to 350 HP, since some of the heat is rejected by the coolant pipes along the floor pan. The 10 gallon fuel tank won't give you much range with a thirsty V-8, so don't plan on any major excursions through the Northwest Territory (or whatever it's called now).

BTW - I'd second the vote for V-8 Archie.

Good luck.

Later,
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Old 07-28-2000, 07:52 PM   #13
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i have a 86 fiero se that i bought with the ideal of putting a 350 or bigger in it , so i could use it to drive around town and stomp rice burners, would be alot of fun, but since then i got a 86 z28 so the fiero ideal kinda fell out of the picture and the size had alot to do with it , not my driving in worried about its the other people , but anyhow putting big motors in fieros is very common, saw a guy last week at the track with a 454 put in longways not sidewas like the stock motor, and it fit fine , but v8 archies is the place you want to check out ,allso look at their chop top jobs they do very nice work and very cool,i havent given up on my fiero one day i would like to do a kit car of some type , but the sound of a 383 tpi supercharged does sound nice Click the image to open in full size. specially when you pull up to the light with a civic si with 30 day tags next to you haha , no excuse little car against little car Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-28-2000, 08:03 PM   #14
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How would they be a death trap... The V8 conversion only adds around 200 Lbs.. (The weight of one large passenger). There is a brake upgrade to make it stop better if that's a concern.

Traction wise.. The engine is right over the rear wheels to help prevent the back end from getting snakey.

Any fast car can kill you if you don't treat it with respect, including modded F-bodies.



------------------
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Old 07-28-2000, 08:40 PM   #15
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If you can find one, get an '88. They had better brakes and a Lotus suspension.
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Old 07-28-2000, 08:51 PM   #16
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LMAO!!!!!

Everyone knows Fiero's don't move under their own power!
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Old 07-29-2000, 12:23 AM   #17
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It would only take a mild 350 to get a fiero to downright move. With a more or less stock Northstar motor (300hp), 2 different fieros went 12s in hotrod. Very tempting platform w/ that light weight.

I have kicked around the idea of one day getting one to play around with. I was kinda thinking the 450hp 406 buildup that went around in several magazines would be perfect. That would haul so much *** it wouldn't even be funny.

I have checked out v8 archie before, and his kit seems to be better than the competition. But I have to wonder if the price isn't really high for all these kits. Anyway, a v8 would definitely rule.

BTW, is the 3800 S/C motor going to be much easier to install? I'd personally rather have a v8.

Oh yeah and for me, I'd have to have a 86+ GT as the starting point. You know, the fastback looking models. I don't care at all for the standard models and older GTs.

Have fun though...

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Old 07-29-2000, 12:27 AM   #18
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hey, thaks for the replies guys, especially the detail vader. I just want to have a decent car around here, there are so many ricers and all the cars look the same here, and only a few thirdgens, a dozen decent ones at that... a modded fiero would be an awesome car, very light and easy to handle. I just wanted to explore my options before next summer so i can have enough $$$ to complete the task, now to start lookin for motors......




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Old 07-29-2000, 01:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by GTA Jim:
How would they be a death trap... The V8 conversion only adds around 200 Lbs.. (The weight of one large passenger). There is a brake upgrade to make it stop better if that's a concern.

Traction wise.. The engine is right over the rear wheels to help prevent the back end from getting snakey.

Any fast car can kill you if you don't treat it with respect, including modded F-bodies.

Weight is why I think it would be a "Death trap" Fiero's are way to light and small to handle a built 350 or a big block. Would you drive a go cart that has 400hp? I know I wouldn't. Also, you would most likley to live through a crash in a f-body than a fiero because of the size difference.
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Old 07-29-2000, 07:22 AM   #20
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I've seen several nice V8 conversion Fieros, but they all used "cherry bomb" mufflers.

The absolute best conversion I ever saw was a Northstar conversion! With just a few custom brackets, the whole Caddilac FWD powertrain bolts into place in the Fiero, for an INSTANT low-12 second ride. There was a writeup about six years ago on this very conversion in Car Craft, or High-tech Performance magazine. The guy was from Illinois, or Indiana, and the car looked downright amazing. He did it all in a one-car garage, too.

Death trap?? Hardly.
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Old 07-29-2000, 07:27 AM   #21
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I saw a very nice Fiero with a 3800 supercharged Gran Prix motor in it. Fit like a champ and the guy said it was pretty quick. Had the cool air vents that wrapped around the side windows and had like 16 or 17 inch rims. Very nice ride. Guy lives in Northern MD. Saw a 454 stuff in a VW bug at the same show, insane!

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Old 07-29-2000, 10:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by IROCracer:
LMAO!!!!!

Everyone knows Fiero's don't move under their own power!
IROC,

I know what you mean. I have to plan all my trips so that all routes are downhill. Then I wait until I see a big truck and coast in behind it to get sucked along with it back up the hill, not unlike the Taco Bell wrappers and pizza boxes floating around on the road.

Seriously, the 151-4 engines give it just about enough power to make it a little faster than the average Sentra or Camry. The V-6 cars are a little better, but why go halfway? I bought mine several years ago with the intent of installing a spare 355 SBC. The extra 160 pounds over the rear axle will only give it a little better launch and winter traction (it's my winter driver). I've spoken with several people in the Chicago metro area who have had V-8 conversions and whoever said they are "pretty quick" is a liar - they're wicked fast! A nicely done V-8 with a 5-speed will tag right along with a ZR1 until the breeze gets to about 140 MPH, where the extra weight of the 'Vette helps keep it on the road. What sucks is that first gear on the Getrag transaxle is way too low for a V-8, and there's no good way to change the ratios on the 76mm box.

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Old 07-29-2000, 11:09 AM   #23
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You have alot of options for Fiero powerplants: 3.1 liter is a drop-in, as is the 3.4 liter S10 replacement from GM. You can get a SBC in there, but be prepared to spend a lot of money for a transaxle that will hold up to the power. Caddy Northstar fits, as does the 3.4L DOHC V6 (Intrigue, 215hp), the 3.8L V6 (NA or supercharged) and the Quad 4.

I saw a nice Fiero GT at Hi-Tech 3 weeks ago with the regular 150hp Quad 4, it ran in the mid 15's, also had nitrous, but wasn't used (at least I hope for the owner's sake). You can also get the 180hp (or 185HP) Quad 4 in there too.

I also know that a few companies sell turbo kits for the V6 Fieros. If you were to go up to the 3.4L V6 and throw a turbo on, it should get 275-300hp and be streetable (the 3.4L replacement, not the DOHC motor).

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Old 07-29-2000, 04:10 PM   #24
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I found a 3800 series II at a junk yard today. It is in a f'd up '97 Camaro. They said I could have the motor, and whatever I need for the swap (wire harness, computer, acc., etc.) for $750. I wish I had some money. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-30-2000, 01:09 AM   #25
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Fiero with a V8 would be nice, it would work out really well, at least it did for the Miata. One place to go look at would be Fieroheaven.com..very nice guys there....will help anyway they can with your selection.



------------------
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Old 07-30-2000, 02:02 PM   #26
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I didnt read all the posts on this, so it might have already been said, but I have seen a Fiero GT with a ZZ4 in it... this thing was pretty dam fast too!

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Old 07-30-2000, 05:52 PM   #27
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We'll funny you ask. I've been in a fiero with a hopped up 454. Leme tell you. DAMN!!
Guy had it in a showroom at a corvette dealership inside of Irving, Texas. And it looked stock. ..... from the front.
So yes It is possible to fit someting big in it. If that was the question. I can't remember, I had too much fun that day. Ever felt like you had to use a spatula to peel your back off a seat after a little "Leme take you for a quick spin" ride.
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Old 07-30-2000, 10:53 PM   #28
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personally with the room you have and options available, i'd look into either an aluminum block 3.4 pushrod engine or just plain 3.4 pushrod s10 conversion engine. both are available through gm and wouldn't be that hard to get in. could use factory mounts and injection. add a shot of nitrous and 13's aren't a problem. could consider a 3.4 dohc from a monte or lumina also. would be a fairly easy swap. if it were found in a wrecking yard, a 2.4 from a newer cavalier would be a great swap with a vortech blower install. john moss did a cavalier with a blown 2.4 and 14's were not a problem with very little boost and not much traction.
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Old 10-04-2002, 05:27 AM   #29
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1. There are no lotus designed parts on a fiero.
2. The Fiero had better crash results than a thirdgen in all aspects.

Why do people talk out their ***?
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Old 10-04-2002, 04:47 PM   #30
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hmmmm nobody mentioned the 4.3 liter engines....or i missed it . my dad has a 4.3L fiero and hes spent around 3 or 4 thousand into it. no superchargers or nos or anything like that, and it runs low 12s. just shows it isnt necessary to go 8 cylinders in something that light. i read somewhere up there about a 455 and only ran 12s....ha.
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Old 10-04-2002, 08:28 PM   #31
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3800 SC will do the same cheaper. IE no conversion kit neccessary.
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Old 10-05-2002, 06:52 PM   #32
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Dennis,

Email me. I'll put you in touch with my brother. You'll want to talk to him. He has done several weirdo swaps into a Fiero and hanges with people who have done many more. 3.4L Dual OHC V6 from a Lumina Z-34? Yep. S/C 3.8 from a GTP? Uh huh. Turbocharged 2.5L Iron Duke 4? Check. V8? Of course.

You really came to the wrong board to ask this question so I would like to get you to somewone who has actually done stuff like this. Not me. Much smarter people than me. And expereinced. And guys who just get off on stuff like this for the fun of it- not money, not for flash.

My brother's ride is an 86 GT with dead-stock 3.4L DOHC motor from a Lumina Z-34 running through an Isuzu 5-speed transaxle. Fast? It'll run DEAD EVEN with my 94 Formula (13.5 @ 105) until you're over 100 MPH when it PULLS AWAY. And that's an unmolested factory engine- he hasn't turbocharged it yet.
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Old 10-05-2002, 07:04 PM   #33
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You can go to a junkyard and get a toranato (sp) front end. It is a direct fit from what I hear. It came with the 307 if I remember right with a auto tranny. It was a front wheel drive, but the motor was facing the same way our does. The key is the tranny. It can be done for about $300-500 depending on the junkyard. Hope that helps any.
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Old 10-05-2002, 10:16 PM   #34
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Damon,

TUC007 asked. I just got pissed over the people talking out of ignorance. Its like listening to mustang owners mouth camraos. Fiero's are GM cars. If they had a design flaw it was that they were too succesful. Remeber Pontiac only had to sell 30K a year for the contract to be valid. In 88 they were not allowed any advertising and still managed to sell 24 thousand or something close to that number in half a year before GM killed it.

Fires... 84 Fieros with the 2.5L only. It was the connecting rods from the foundry not the engine or the Fiero.

Safety... Only the volvo beat it in goverment crash test.

Performance... 0-30 faster than most cars of its time. A better power to weight ratio than an 84 Corvette.

Handling... 88 GT should out manuver a 2002 WS6 Trans AM or Camaro SS.

Weight... @2600 pounds, not too light.

1990 Fiero looks about as modern as a 4th Gen firebird and was to have a alum space frame with a larger engine. Think about it...
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Old 10-06-2002, 01:58 PM   #35
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tuc, have you seen the fiero.nl message board? *TONS* of info!

Personally I like the 3.4L swap, with the turbo kit from the company in Vancouver, BC.

Alex

BTW Vader it's called Nunavut now. The NW Territories still exists, but it's half the size.
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:17 AM   #36
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Anyone know the tranny ratios for any of the V6 trannys? Final drive ratios?

Thanks
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Old 10-07-2002, 09:06 AM   #37
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Four cylinder and V6 Fiero trannys interchange. The best automatic tranny came off an 84 4 cylinder 4.10 ratio, but has terrible highway RPM's The best manual is the 86 and up GT Getrag 5 speed. Don't know the ratio's for it. As suggested before go to www.fiero.nl and do a search.
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Old 10-07-2002, 09:14 AM   #38
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Where did all the people talking out their **** go? Funny when the real info comes out, they shut up. Truthfully its more pratical to install a 350 SBC in a Fiero than it is to install a 454 in a thirdgen.

The best V8 for a fiero remains to be the 4.9L caddy V8 found in devilles. It comes with a 4 speed automatic but will bolt to the stick shifts. It needs no adapter kit with only moderate modficiations. Go to www.fiero.nl and do a search.

The 4.9 is lighter than the V6 but unfortunely only produces 200 hp and revs to 4000 rpm. It however is the cheapest swap and should allow you to beat any ***** that you run across.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:46 AM   #39
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Re: Best Motor for a Fiero GT.....

Hey Guys,

Here is some true information, A SBC fits in a Fiero just fine. As for weight, Depending on the motor used the weight difference is only 30 to 80 lbs. (from a V-6) As an example: Mine has a ZZ4 crate engine (aluminum heads). I removed a 2.8L with the stock auto and installed the V-8 with the 4-spd manual. The car only gained 30lbs. I saved almost 50 lbs by going to the manual trans and ditching the A/C. The engine is located just forward of the rear axle so any weight gained would be like putting 30 - 80 lbs in your back seat. Traction is excellent due to the weight is just forward and above the transaxle.

As for power vs. speed, It all depends on the engine used. A LM1 only has about 250-270hp. A V-6 Fiero GT weighs around 2800 lbs. This will give you a high-mid 13-second car. With the ZZ4 I have it's rated at 355hp and mine runs on the dyno as 309 to the wheels. It runs 12.3 @ 111 mph.

As for transaxles, The stock auto is weak. The manual transaxles are not bad as long as you don't go crazy with power. They seem good up to about 400hp. There are other options if you want. For those who like auto's, The 4T65eHD can be built up to handle lots of power but requires an aftermarket controller (unless you go the 3800SC route which has the controller in the PCM already). For manuals, The 6-spd manual used on the G6's can be used and so far seems to be holding up. (Not many folks are running huge power thru them yet. Many just started swapping them.) The question on final drive ratio's is the 4-spd manual has a 3.65:1, The 5-spd getrag is 3.61:1. The 4-spd used in 1984 did have a 4.11:1 but the case isn't as strong as the later V-6 4-spd. (you can swap out the final drive into a later 4-spd if you want) ALL the stock auto's had 3.08:1 to 3.33:1 (varied between years and engines.) The TH-425 used in Toronado's and Eldorado's positions the engine north and south rather than transverse. To use it you will need to cut into the trunk to mount it. (yes it has been done.)

As for safety, While the Fiero does sit lower it isn't much smaller than a firebird. The 3rd gen F-bodies are 101" wheelbase, The Fiero's are 94".
Remove the rear seat of the F-body and you have a Fiero. (Track and width are nearly identical) The Fiero has a 5-star crash rating. Only the Volvo had a better rating for all years that Fiero's were made. There are plenty of documented Fiero crashes where the folks lived. Back in 2002 a Fiero owner was hit head on with a suburban in Colorado, The car wasn't recognizable, But the driver survived. A local club member was T-boned by a full size pick-up at 45 mph. The Fiero broke in half right behind the driver seat. He was home that night with some bruises and a fractured rib. (The pick-up driver spent two weeks in the hospital. He wasn't wearing his seat belt)

Now for engine swaps, Nearly any GM engine can (and has been swapped) into a Fiero. With each engine swap, The character of the vehicle changes. A 3.4L DOHC engine gives it a high-revving sports car feel while a SBC gives it more of a muscle car or streetrod feel. (I wanted a streetrod feel hence I went with a 355hp/405ft/lbs torque ZZ4) V8 Archie recently completed a customized Fiero with the G6 6-spd and an LS7 crate engine. Others have done many different things. We have a member who has a built 383 with a turbo pushing 16psi. Another member has a 3.4DOHC with a turbo pushing +400hp. Many have 3800SC's that are modified and run in the 11's and 12's. By far the SBC V-8's and the 3800SC's are the most popular swaps, But like I said there are Fiero's with Northstar's, 4.9L caddy's, 3800/3800SC, 3.4/3.4DOHC, QUAD4, Ecotec, 4.3L, 3.5L, LS1, LS2, LS3, LS4, LS7, LT1, ZZ4, LM1, etc. A shop in Indiana recently swapped in a Grand Prix GXP 5.3L with the matching paddle-shift auto. It is running in the high-mid 12's.

There is no "best swap" it all comes down to how you want the car to act. Sports car, streetrod, AutoX, drag strip, road course, stop light crusier, etc.

As for what is fastest? It's all subjective as to how you build the engine. So far on Pennocks Fiero Forum (www.fiero.nl ) the fastest verified is a 3800 turbo owned by a member named "FieroX" He is running in the mid 10's right now and hopes with some more mods to get into the 9's soon.
(this is a street driven getting 30mpg on the highway Fiero) We do have a member who recently just finished building a 427 LSX engine. He hasn't broken the motor in yet, But we should get some track times soon. His previous Fiero had a 3800SC in it and he was running in the low-mid 11's.

If you visit Pennocks at the link above, Search for "quarter mile times" and you will see the list of verified times with a list of the set-ups and mods.

You can see pics of mine here:
http://teamoctane.com/forum/garage.p...vehicle&CID=26

Last edited by DaveZZ4; 08-11-2009 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:46 AM
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