jrg77

That is what my machinist told me today. That would make my block work cost $1090. Can someone explain why it is so expensive? I shudderto think what it would have been if I asked for splayed caps !

Jason

Air_Adam

Why do you want to have it drilled for 4-bolt caps?

ME Leigh

Its because they have to buy the caps, drill the holes, and then align bore the mains. Its alot of work.

Air_Adam

Why do you want 4-bolt mains though? I mean, yea they are great, but a factory 2-bolt setup will still handle 400hp without much complaint.

ede

why didn't you ask the shop for a break down on pricing? i'd guess it'd go something like this:
caps 200
mill, drill, and tap block 100
alighnbore block 150

nothing wrong with a 2 bolt block, if you want to step up use studs or get another block. i doubt splayed caps would of changed the price much if any.

jrg77

THey were going to align bore it with the old caps. They would do it twice? That doesn't sound right. I didn't think about the caps costing so much. $100 to line up on the current two bolts and drill two more... I'm in the wrong business...

The guys is entitled to what he thinks is fair. I'm just in sticker shock.

I was shooting for 500 hp, and I am thinking about either a Vortech or ATI supercharger. Would that require the insurance of extra bolts in the bottom?

Jason

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

Price crate engines and then price the work to make a crate engine from your block. The block work alone costs more then some crate engines and you havn't even bought anything to go into it yet.

I will not build another engine from scratch. Short block all the way from now on.

ME Leigh

No offense but crate motors suck. They come with parts that are not high performance oriented. Have you done any machine work to the block, like boring? If not, why not just get a 4-bolt block to begin with, unless you want the warm fuzzy feeling of splayed caps.

Streetiron85

Main caps can vary in price from $50 to $250 about.
I don't know what the disadvantages are of the less expensive part, but they all have to be align bored and drilled to fit.
If you're not building a max effort engine and you just need some replacement caps there are some less expensive options out there if you shop around.

SSC

I shouldent say this since its kinda a secret but.

Your not quite clear on what kind of engine this is cubic inch wise.
If its a 350 there are plenty of 4 bolt 350 blocks floating around under $200. If its a 400 you can get a 4 bolt or even a stronger 2 bolt for those looking from any parts store already built (non performance;() for what that machine shop is quoting you just for labor and parts to make a 4 bolt. Just sell the non perfromance components and you have a fresh engine ready to build how you want machine work already done.

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

No offense taken but that is a closed minded, broad comment. All engines are "crate engines" even if custom built by you.

There are many excellent crate engines out there and some bad ones. I myself can't see spending over $1000 on block work alone unless it is an "all out" race build then I would start with an aftermarket block. Likewise, 90% of the members here aren't building "all out" race engines. Budget is the limiting factor.

ME Leigh

It's not closed minded, it's just an informed comment even though it is broad. To get a "good" crate motor, it will cost close $5000. Most crate motors come with stock type rods, with stock bolts, stock type pistons. People keep saying that the ZZ4 motor is good, but all it is an almost stock Vette L98. I mean woppity freakin do, it has forged crank. Wow alot of good that does, when you have stock rod bolts and hyper pistons. I mean come on!!

I will agree though spending a $1000 on block machine work is just stupid, wrong and makes no sense. Especially when you can by a brand new 4-bolt block from GM for $5-600.

jrg77

The block is a 2-bolt main 400. I don't remeber the part number by heart, but I checked it in my interchange book and on the mortec website and it is a '76 2-bolt. So far it has passed the magnaflux test and will be sonic tested next week. If that goes oaky then I have to decide whether to continue with these guys or not.

90% of the crate engines I've seen have Clevite bearings, and at least for members on this board that is a no-no. The ones that have FM bearings typically are $5000 and up like mentioned above. GM has crates engines as cheap as $1300, but they definitely aren't a performance oriented build.

The entry fee for a new block capable of 400 cid seems to be about $1800. Then you get to check it out and make sure its good, and blueprint it if something doesn't clear something.

Part of the objective here was to build one myself so I can learn all about this stuff, so a crate while expedient doesn't accomplish my purpose. I would also have to maintain my motivation while collecting $5000 to spend all at once. Also why would someone buy my new parts from a crate engine? I would be very suspicious of someone parting out something that new. Did they break it, and now are trying to pass it off on some ignorant soul?:shrug:

I have the GM catalog and the basic engine blocks are not supposed to be good for more than 400 hp and 5700 rpm. I'm shooting for 500 and 6500, so that puts them out of the intended range.

For block work what is the normal price range, and what is included?

Jason

Air_Adam

If its a 400 block you have, leave it as a 2-bolt. Using 4-bolt caps actually weakens it, because the main webbing isn't as beefy as it is on, say, a 350 block.

The 400 incher is the exception to the "4 is better than 2" rule. The 400 blocks are actually strongest in 2 bolt form.

IMO, just get any necessary machine work done to the block, like boring, decking, honing, etc... and leave it alone. Don't bother adding 4-bolt caps because you'll be downgrading what you have.

jrg77

So at about $500 for boring, decking, honing, magnalflux, sonic test and degrease that's about right? If that's so then I'm okay.:lala: :lala:

Jason

Streetiron85

You could probably save some $ by skipping the sonic test, unless you're going with a +.060 overbore.

MYBLUZ

I was planning on converting my 2 bolt L98 block to 4 bolt as well. It's like $200 for the cap kit, which comes with the drill bit and tap, and some sort of guide sleeves for drilling. Then I'll take it in for line honing and other machine work. I figure why pay them to do something I can. Anyway that will save on some of the labor cost. Just my .02$.

jrg77

Every book and article I've read about this stuff says to do the sonic test, besides I have already signed up for it.

So $300 to make evrything round, straight, or even on the block?

What should I be prepared for after that? I suppose I can start buying parts then because I know the dimensions and stuff...

Jason

Air_Adam

Unless you'll be going well over 400hp, I wouldn't worry about adding 4-bolt caps. There are other weak links that will give before the caps will be a problem.

jrg77

What are the other weak links?

Jason

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

As stated above, ditch the 4 bolt idea and buy $90 worth of studs and be done w/ it. Studs in a 400 are good to around 700. 6500rpm isn't that bad. Any particular reason why you can't make 500hp at 6000 in a 400?

Air_Adam

Some of the other weak links that would go before a main cap (in a stock engine anyway) are stuff like rod bolts, stock "rubber" rockers, valve springs (ie. valve float), maybe a pushrod...

Stuff like that.

jrg77

The intention is to replace the heads and valvetrain with quality parts.

Full steel roller rockers (tip and trunion?), and rev kit, and corresponding other parts. As I get to them I'll know what to ask about.

Since I am not on a tight schedule or budget I am willing to take my time and invest in the right parts, and do it the right way rather than cheap out and be upset when I don't reach my goals or break something.

Jason

MYBLUZ

So, main studs in place of 4 bolt is stronger?

jaykar

iTrader: (1)

Hi,

Probably yes.
Although I ran a 400 4bolt destroke to 372 for two seasons
in Late model stocks years ago on dirt tracks and motor saw
7600rpm alot and bottom end never a problem

When it finally let go it was between adjacent cylinders
because of bore spacing.(Thin). And it was stainless wire
O-ringed and copper head gaskets.

Just my 2 centavos.

Later

jaykar

MYBLUZ

I think I'll do both,and cover my bases.

anondude13

You could probably save some money by foregoing the rev kit, I hear those aren't worth it.

92MaroRS

honestly its smarter to purchase parts then take the parts and the block to the machine shop and tell them you need it bored for these pistons. if not you might be off on your clearances. the only thing you can really have done before you have parts is magnaflux and sonic test to know how far you can go.

jrg77

That's all I want to know right now. I haven't bought the crank or rods yet, or even the heads. I just wanted to make sure I have something to work with before I start.

If the walls are too thin I have to go back to square one. No sense in buying a crank for a bad 400 block, right?

Jason