mtx28

what do you all think of late 3rd models vs early 4th gens? its getting very close to me buying another camaro(selling my 74 on ebay).. and for a long time i've been certain that i want a 91 or 92 Z28, definately L98. But i came across a few 93-95 Z28's that looked really sharp. I've driven a new (2001) TA and 2k1 SS camaro, but didnt really get to see how it felt in the turns (treated myself to two dealership test drives) anyhow, i know pretty much how extensive the aftermarket products are for both the L98 and LT1, and i know a limited amount on the LT1 motor, as compared to how much info i've gotten from this site on the L98. What do you guys think?? i figured a second opinion is always good to have, though it is what i personallly want in the end. Two reasons why I'm even considering a 4thgen is that 1) i really want ttops, and cant have that on a 91-92 unless u get a 305 and 2) i really want a manual. I'm every bit inclined to install a 6spd in a 92, but the price.. eek! i know both motors respond well to minor mods and both have great power potential.. what about handling? anyone reading this really put these to into some serious turns? do you have any other small quirks about 4th gens you dont like? call me silly and quite indecisive, but... decisions decisions, their quite tough. thx for the input

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• 83 Z28-- not a pretty site to look at, 200k miles and im sure it was treated like a rental car every day of its sad life(before i got it).. sold, thank the lord
• 74 Z28-- 383/400, green on black. pretty clean. FOR SALE!!!

89GTA5spd

Sorry if I upset a lot of people on this site by saying this, but I would buy the early LT1. The suspension is smoother, the tranny is way better, the intake is awesome, the motor is stronger, the aftermarket is really good, the interior is better (arguably), and the brakes are a lot better as well.

Third gen's are great, but if you don't mind the styling of the LT1 cars, they are better stock for stock, plus the intake is really well suited for supercharging. I might just break down and get a LT1 T/A instead of another third gen...

Enkil

LS1, LS1, LS1 *chants*

Or is that LS-1? oh well.

This is a rather superficial reason to not want a car, but the 92-foward cars are much harder to work on the engine from the top, because half of it's covered by the dashboard. With a thirdgen, you can take off the hood and have access to all of the engine from the distributor forward.

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89 iroc-z 305 tbi
k&n filtercharger, open element air filter. nuffin' else

TTA

If you dont mind working on the 4th gen its a superior car in every way.

I can't stand how tight the engine bay is, so mines for sale soon. Besides, my thirdgen costs less money to go fast anyway

The LS1 is cool, its a solid 13 second car. Not blindingly fast but it moves along.



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-Mike
89 TTA
PT51, V4, 50s, 3DP, Stock Long Block and Convertor.....
11.25@121 w/1.56 24psi Through the Exhaust on a 16psi launch

1998 LS1 T/A 6-Speed
13.10@106 Factory Stock down to the air in the tires. 296HP/319TQ

IROCZZ3

It depends on what you want to do I guess, but if you're planning on going faster for your dollar, I think you'd be money ahead by going with a 93 LT1 and here's why...

With an L98, you really need to tackle the intake system as a whole to get any real performance, a la Miniram or Superram. With an LT1 you pretty much *already* have a Miniram sitting on top of your motor. Just a nice home port job on the LT1 intake and you're done. With an L98 you'll need to spend at least $1200+ for a MR or SR. With the money you save on buying a MR or SR for an L98, you can get the LT1 heads ported or buy a set of AFR 190s.

------------------
1989 IROC-Z, ZZ3 shortblock with some bolt-ons.
13.20 @ 108.69, 2.2 60'

mtx28

------------------

• 83 Z28-- not a pretty site to look at, 200k miles and im sure it was treated like a rental car every day of its sad life(before i got it).. sold, thank the lord
• 74 Z28-- 383/400, green on black. pretty clean. FOR SALE!!!

mtx28

*tisk tisk* you TTA people are all the same seriously, by you saying 'if you dont mind working on it' you are referring to the tight compartment, no? I think i need to take a trip to the car lot, one of them and find a 4th gen i can look around at.

TTA

Yes the engine is hidden, its a pain in the *** to work on. 2 1/2 hour Spark Plug Replacements and 7 hour header jobs... *** Dat...

If you dont mind that BS, then get a 4th gen. They are much nicer than a 3rd gen.

------------------
-Mike
89 TTA
PT51, V4, 50s, 3DP, Stock Long Block and Convertor.....
11.25@121 w/1.56 24psi Through the Exhaust on a 16psi launch

1998 LS1 T/A 6-Speed
13.10@106 Factory Stock down to the air in the tires. 296HP/319TQ

Ray87Z

Early LT1s are plagued with a fairly weak Optispark setup that likes to go bad, and an annoying intake oil leak (not sure if that's been remedied or what). IMO the 4th gens, especially the early ones just look like *** too exterior wise unless done just right. And parts of the interior look better but that mile wide dashboard is flat out weird and not being able to see the hood at all doesn't do it for me. The performance between a good 91-92 L98 and a early LT1 isn't that big of a difference at all (especially if you're comparing auto vs auto). The 6spd is a definite plus though. I'd still rather have the 91-92 myself...

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray


[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited June 25, 2001).]

mtx28

I talked to a guy who owns a corvette shop, and he said that if you own an early LT1, and the water pump goes bad, expect to pay an additional 400 for the opti spark unit also(cuse the pump leaks on it and screws it up). anyone know if/when/what they did to fix this? I dunno, i think I'm going to have to drive an LT1, and take a close look around it and see what I think. I had ttops in my last car(83 Z) and man were they fun.. that mated with a m6, much fun i think. on a random note.. what size tires did the earlier 4th gens have? did they move up in size before they put the 275's on the LS1's?

Oh yea, another thing. Is the m6 in these the same that comes in the new models? I'm guessing its the same basically, but I dont have a clue as to whether or not its been changed any.

[This message has been edited by mtx28 (edited June 25, 2001).]

Ray87Z

They went through a slight change in the gear ratios of the M6s after a year or two, and there is a difference in the torque rating too I believe. I'm not up on the exact differences but theres not a big difference.

Also, later on all 6spd cars got 3.42 gears out back, earlier there was a worse ratio available, can't remember what it was (I want to say 3.08...)

The standard tire on Camaros was a 245 on the 16inch "Salad shooter" wheels I believe. I don't think regular Z28s and TAs have ever had more than 245s from the factory. Where are you getting 275s for LS1s from? Firehawks/SSs or something maybe?

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited June 25, 2001).]

mtx28

I drove a 2001 T/A that had 275's, im sure of it. Also an SS I drove had them. It may have been an option which just happened to be on the two models i drove.

branz28

I agree with TTA my 2000 Z just doesn't look like something i wanna play with (probably why it's still stock). Nice to drive and all but you got hoses all over the place, and stuff crammed here and there. Just look like a PITA to do anything.

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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Gutted cat
-!AIR
-Gutted Air Boxes

mtx28

well i just got done reading a pretty good write up on the reverse-flow cooling system of the LT-1's, and it seems much cooler(pun intended) than the older way. it seems more logical now that they have a 10.5:1 compression. if you install a set of heads with bigger combustion chambers, for instance that would give you a 10:1 compression(maby so you could add a S/Cer), would the ECU react to this? I cant think of any ways it would, but then again im very unfamiliar with sensors and controls. thanks for the input again

here is the link.. it seems a bit wordy, and is obviously comming from someone who likes LT-1s.. but good nonetheless
http://www.z28.com/hypertech/lt1.html

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• 83 Z28-- not a pretty site to look at, 200k miles and im sure it was treated like a rental car every day of its sad life(before i got it).. sold, thank the lord
• 74 Z28-- 383/400, green on black. pretty clean. FOR SALE!!!

[This message has been edited by mtx28 (edited June 25, 2001).]

AJ_92RS

You asked earlier about the handling of the 4th gens. I owned a 94 Z28, LT1, T56, T-tops, white w/gray-black interior, and a Bose (yuk) CD player. If going 70mph all the way through the freeway exits excites you, then that's the car. That was with Eagle GT IIs.

I have a road in my town, Rt.113, right next to the river. I took that road at speeds ranging from 90-130mph with no problem and it's a winding, twisty, hilly road. The longest straight on that road is only about a 1/2 mile, and that was were I hit the 130mph mark. I had a friend behind me in his Dakota 5.8L, and he got pulled over. The cop told him that he saw me first, but knew there was no way in hell he was gonna catch me. He didn't even have time to catch the first 3 letters on my plate.

I took it to the track, and with a K&N and a Flowmaster muffler (they didn't make a cat-back kit yet) I ran a 14.4@96mph w/2.20 60 ft. times. It was my first time at the track, and I didn't know how to get the car to hook up. 650ft above sea level, 80 deg. outside, 85% humidity, and I weigh about 240lbs. I miss that car. Mine now is a better looking style, IMO. But MY GOD, that Z was fun. And it would do 150mph no problem. Just put an LT1 in your car with the T56. Then you'll get the best of both worlds.

Good luck w/ whatever you decide.

AJ

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92 RS w/t-tops 305 TBI Auto.
170K miles and don't burn a drop o'oil
-K&N Truck filter #1500 w, open ele.
air cleaner
-Dynomax 2 1/2" cat-back
-B&M TransPak
-Jet Stage2 Chip
-180* T-Stat w/ 185* Fan Switch
-JVC CD--Alpine speakers & 4ch. amp
Rockford 2ch. to 2 MTX 12" subs

giovanhalen

third gen can accept a big block much easier than a 4th gen. if your looking for another reason.

Bort62

I can take freeway offramps at 70 np, Not that taht really Means Much.




------------------
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver 14.82 @ 91.1
Reader's ride -> My Ride

Just another Hot Rod kid, or thats what they all tell me.
Livin' the Stereotype

89ROC

Seeing as how I have both a 3rd and 4thgen, I'd go for the 4thgen. Don't get me wrong I love my thirdgen, as you don't really see many IROC-Z's anymore.
Anyway, here's a few things off the top of my head that make me like the 4thgen better:
-It has 4, yes FOUR cup holders.
-Has a lot more room for speakers (8 or 10, compared to 4 for the thirdgen)
-Rack and pinion steering
-You don't have to worry about setting the timing, or pulling the distributor. It does have the dreaded Opti-spark, but mine has 91,000 miles with no problems yet.
-the stock intake manifold setup will allow you to easily pull to 6500rpm's with the right camshaft. Unlike the TPI, where you run into a brick wall at 4600rpm.




------------------
89' pearl blue Camaro Iroc-Z
355/6-spd
Not stock...
------------------
97' black Pontiac Trans Am
LT1, A4, free mods, CAI,
HPP3+, Flowmaster catback, 3.42's.
NOS (waiting to be installed)

Kevin G

I have owned both 3rd and 4th gens, and I would recommend the 4th gen also if you dont mind working on them.

My 94 Z-28 with just cold air and full exhaust ran a 13.01@109..I was very impressed on how well the LT1 responded to bolt ons. I would have needed to go internal to get those numbers out of my 3rd gen.

mtx28

thats one thing i've been wondering about. how do you set the timimg? The cupholder and speakers are pretty minor details, however, little things add up to a lot. I think I'm likin 13.01 with two very minor bolth ons Can anyone shed any light on the compression question i asked in the last post, a few replies up? thanks again

L98IROCZ89

There are many pros and cons to both as you know.

I, personally, wanted a 4th gen because of the 3rd gen reputation as being a teenager car. However, a 4th gen costs much more to maintain, nmot to mention that the insurance rates are even worse than 3rd gens. Just way all your options and pick which is best for you.

------------------
***The driver formerly known as 89IROCZ***

1989 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
350c.i. TPI, rebuilt 700R4 auto w/shift kit, Dual catalyst Monza PaceSetter Cat-Back (currently no muffler, sounds on webpage) 3.23 Posi rear, Hypertech chip, Under-Drive pulleys, AFPR, K&N's, moddified MAF, Alarm, Keyless entry, remote starter, 92 Z28 AeroWing, Brand New Paint (6/21/01)

Future: ZZ4 TPI w/EGR, T56, 3.42 or 3.73, Spohn SFC, strut tower brace and LCA's

1989 Chevrolet Celebrity Eurosport
2.8 MPFI, no mods
225,000 miles and still ticking!

More info, pictures and sounds (of the IROC) available on my webpage: http://go.to/iroc-z

AOL IMer: GPA 0point0

L98IROCZ89

Since I just read further and saw that your talking about faulty water pumps and optisparks in 4th gens...

My roommate has a 95 T/A (6spd, t-tops) and his water pump was the first to go. He replaced that, and a few months later the optispark is bad.

Overall they are good cars though... I sure like them.

AJ_92RS

Yea, your right. I probably could do that in my 3rd gen., but the 94 just seemed to give better control and response. I guess that just gave me more confidence. BTW, I am talking about the hairpin exits. Like when you're heading north and then the exit turns you back south. Mine now just feels like it's gonna break loose and slide. Plus my seats are soft. I shift around too much. That may give me the feeling of less control. I dunno.

I might, someday trade mine for a 2002 SS, but nothing less. Or just buy one outright. Mainly for collector's reasons. Plus, IMO, they look awesome. I love that new blue. I don't know the name of the color, but it stole my heart the first time I saw an SS in that color. Drool was drippin' man!!!!

Sorry. I'll stop babbling now.

89ROC

The opti-spark (distributor) is cam-driven, and only goes on 1-way, so it is not possible to 'stab' it wrong. The timing is all controlled by the PCM, so you don't have to worry about setting it. It's non-adjustable.

I believe the CR of the LT1 is 10.2:1. It may be 10.4:1 though, I'm not sure.


------------------
89' pearl blue Camaro Iroc-Z
355/6-spd
Not stock...
------------------
97' black Pontiac Trans Am
LT1, A4, free mods, CAI,
HPP3+, Flowmaster catback, 3.42's.
NOS (waiting to be installed)

West Coast GTA Man

Well I am not talking about performance comparisons here, because I really couldn't tell you, but in my opinion the 3rd generations look much better. I think the 4th generations are to futuristic looking, and are harder to work on.
C-ya
Mike

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(Gran Turismo Americano) "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber).

91rscruiser

why dont you just put an LS1 in a thirdgen.they look hella better,easier to work in engine compartment,and all in all i think tend to get a few more looks than a 4thgen.they just seem to stand out a bit more.now i know an LS1 in a thirdgen would be one hell of a project,but it can be done.just takes some time,patience,and a few pretty pennies,but i doubt it would be overly expensive.and just think,how many people can say they have an LS1 thirdgen?not many im sure.and for even better kicks,get an RS and keep it looking stock,so when a dumbass see's the Rs badging and wants to race you,he thinks your slow as ***** until your license plate becomes a blur.hmmm 3GENLS1 sounds like a good plate.....

------------------
-1991 camaro rs,dark red metallic,t-tops,stock 15inch rims
-stock L03 305,TH700R4,2.73's,only mod for now is a Flowmaster 80 series replacement muffler.

Basett_Racing

First of all, let me say I totally agree with most all of the posts that point out the advantages of the 4th Gen. The fact is, They are in most ways the superior car, hands down.I do, however, prefer the looks of a 3rd Gen MUCH more than I do the 4th Gen, but that's just my opinion. Now, with that said, I bought another 3rd Gen(as a driver, since my 82 Z28 had no EFI, and was not very streetable) a little over a year ago. I looked around and priced cars for months, before deciding on the one I did. Now, before everyone starts to laugh, I bought an 89 RS w/ the, let's say, less than desirable L03 305. My reason was based on several factors, but the main reason I bought this car was the condition of the car itself. Granted, I got a very good deal on it, but I was ready to go get a loan up to $7000 or so, but I never found a car that I could justify spending that much money on. If I found a 4th Gen Z28, it would have T-tops and a 6 speed, which I didn't prefer. Or if I found a Z28 or T/A with the hardtop and an Auto, it would need paint, and would have too many miles and be totally ragged. So then I thought, I'll buy a 87-90 IROC L98 or a 91-92 Z28 L98. Same thing, I found nice T top cars, or nice 5 speed cars, and if I found a L98 hardtop, it would have 160-180K miles car it would need so much work, I couldn't see give the $4500+ everyone was wanting for them. I'm not saying there aren't nice cars at good prices out there, I'm just saying I didn't find them. So I was still in the process of looking when I found out the car I bought was for sale. I knew this car, I actually remember when it was bought new, and I also knew that 2 years prior the original owner had gotten a brand new crate engine installed in the car because it had a tick at start-up (Hyd lifters starting up at fast idle) on cold, winter mornings, like most EFI cars do. I had a 97 Sonoma 4.3 V6 that did it and my 2000 Z71 does it from time to time, no big deal. Everyone, including the dealer, told her that she didn't need an engine, it only had 98K, but she insisted, because she said she didn't want it to let her down. So she got a new engine, but that's the way she was about the whole car. If anything wasn't like it was when she bought it, she had it fixed. She only sold it because she bought a 2000 RS Camaro, almost the same color maroon as mine!! But, the car is in excellent condition, and is very clean. It is fully loaded w/ power accessories, and everything works flawlessly. I only gave $2200 for the car, and have been offered almost double that for it on more than one occasion. I bought a wrecked 87 IROC, very cheap, and changed out most all of the suspension, the rearend, put on KYB shocks and polyurethane bushings most everywhere, did a few engine/tranny mods, added the IROC tail lights, IROC fog-light grille, and 17" SEC racing wheels(used), and have still not spent $4000. Its quick for an L03, but its by no means a LTI caliber car, in terms of accelleration, but w/ the mods I've to the suspension, it corners better than any F-body I've ever driven, and is very fun to drive. The only other plans I have for the car right now is an ASCD SS hood, and a little later on, I am going to build a L98 350 that I recently bought to install in the car. My plan is to freshen up the L98 shortblock, go with a LT4 cam, buy a set of Vortec heads, and **GASP** retain the TBI set-up. I know, everyone says go TPI, but I've seen several very fast, daily driven, 88-94 350 TBI full-size pickups at the local dragstrips, and thanks to this site, I have learned so much from the TBI forum about the "Underdog EFI" system as I've heard someone call it. I can do this for around $2500, including the hood and engine, and I will easily have a better than LT1 performing, extremely well-handling car that I like in everyway. No compromises. Had I bought the 4th Gen, I would still want the look of the 3rd Gen. If I would have paid the $4500-$6500 that I saw for 87-92 L98 cars, I would be left wanting more performance, which as several posts above agree, would have been more expensive(including the cost of the car) to mod the TPI set-up to the performance level of the LT1, and I would still want wheels/tires and the SS hood. I am building the car I want, because the one I truly wanted doesn't exist, which was a totally streetable 3rd Gen, that performed like a 4th Gen, and one that I could actually afford. If I was very wealthy, I would have had someone build me a Supercharged LS1 powered, '92 Heritage Edition Z28, w/ 17" Fiskes, and a totally aftermarket AutoX suspension, but I'm not, so I had to do the best I could within my means

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82 Z28 383, Ported 215cc Dart Iron Eagle Heads 72 cc Comb. Chambers, Comp custom grind Hyd roller cam, Speed Pro .250" domes, Wheeler Motorsports 4340 I beam rods, Eagle 5140 steel crank, Weiand Team G intake, Holley 830 DP, hedman headers
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET:11.63 @ 113.25, w/ a 7.39 1/8 @ 93.04, and a 1.626 60'


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 14.91 @92.9
Bassett Racing

mtx28

Yea, I've tried to weigh all the options. I really like the looks of the third gen cars much better( over early 4th gens, the 98-newer is another story), but, at the same time, ttops and a 6speed(after driving two 2k1 Fbodies with 6speeds which were very nice) i think i've decided that those are two options that just have to be on the next car i purchase. I've thougth about going the 305 route and building it up, there are after all quite a few very quick 305's motoring around. Still though, the 5speed is relatively weak, and eventually I'd be converting to a T56. The last two cars I've had, which are in my sig, i bought with the mindset of a fixer-upper. This is much moreso with the 83, because the 74 was very clean when i bought it, but it still needed some maintenence. I decided this time around i was going to be willing to spend the extra money and get a car with around 50k miles on it, which i dont think is unreasonable for a 92-95 model. Its quite true that I know a limited amount about the LT1, but I dont think thats the way to go about the situation: know all you can before buying a car, technically speaking. I'm having the headliner covered and put in my camaro tomorrow, which is the final thing im doing before i put it up for sale, and while thats being done me and a buddy of mine are going to drive around a bit and see if we can find some early 4th gens for sale, and hopefully can con our way into getting a drive in one. I dont imagine its too different from the new ones, but still.. I do think the interior of the early 4th gens is awesome, cuse for the driver its like ur in your own little ****pit.. that being that the radio, and all controls are sort of angled your way.. i like that I asked before, but not sure if anyone saw it.. would adding aftermarket heads which larger combustion chambers have any affect on the ECU? thanks again for the input from all

------------------

• 83 Z28-- not a pretty site to look at, 200k miles and im sure it was treated like a rental car every day of its sad life(before i got it).. sold, thank the lord
• 74 Z28-- 383/400, green on black. pretty clean. FOR SALE!!!

FiReBReTHa

hey 89roc, whoopie doo. your 4th has four cup holders, mine has *6* !!!

lol... fourth gens are more comfy, even tho i think that the rears are smaller, and my rear compartment is better. (91 pont bird)
and fourth gen. well.... they have tight *** engine compartments. its not even funny... my friends V-6 makes me afraid of eights.

but a V-6 with ttops. reinforce the car with SFC. then drop in an 350..
prob LT1. taste of two worlds.
i wish we had an LT1 forum. that way i can see whats goin on for mods. cause i want to drop one..


Later guys..

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback, Fourth Gen Console. i have six cupholders. all for starbucks!
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
"My G/f Once Wanted To Break Up Because Of Competition With The Car."
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap
God Created The Earth, And Then Turned Up The Bass

Tas

4thgens suck. 3rdgens rule all. Just look at the possibilities. The non jet aircraft windshield is evidence enough for me.

468 big block 3rdgen.
https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001236.html

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Soon to be installed:
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.

Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz


[This message has been edited by Tas (edited June 28, 2001).]

91z4me

How come nobody else missed this? The guy said he wanted t-tops and that is a big reason he wanted a 4th gen. Hello there were quite a few 350 t-top third gen. Mine is only 305 but I remember seeing another post where people told of 350 and t-top cars. Just wondering why nobody noticed it. I would do the LS1 conversion if I were rich and also replace the interior. Just for looks. But for me the 91-92 z28 is the baddest mo Fo. IMO.

Drakar

89GTA 350 with T-TOPS !!!!!! go third gen the money saved buying a 3rd over a 4th can get you a 6 speed, and any tune ups the cars needs, plus 3rd gens are infamous for handling, better then early 4th gens (FACT) if you drive it and it doesn't feel it then it probably needs new shock/struts. Go third and save your hair and your knuckles
91 - 92 unfortunately I don't know if T's are possible heard no, but you can always have it converted for a lot of Canadian nickles (less then american penny ).

------------------
89 GTA 350TPI
92 RS 305TBI - Sold

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

I think that in terms of performance potential the thirdgen are totally superior. The are MUCH easier to work on and accept a wider range of parts. You can put any engine you want in a thirdgen car. Try to put something other than stock in a fourthgen. Now I know people are going to ask why you would replace the fourth gen anyway. Well actually, the question should be why would you want to replace a thirdgen engine with an LT1 or LS1. The small Chevy engine is THE best engine ever and the amount of parts available for is unmatched by any other engine. A 350 can make more power for less money than a fourthgen engine. Also, in my opinion the thirdgens are MUCH better looking. The Camaros look like oversized GEO Storms except for the new ones that look like the Crysler. The Trans Ams aren't much better looking either. I know I'll get ripped on for this but that ram hood hood is the gayest thing I've ever seen. The fourthgen cars don't have the same tough look as a thirdgen. I've come to believe that the thirdgen cars may be the best cars for performance potential ever.

Drakar

Well if you look at what he originally wanted he wants T's and 6speed, so I say find your 3rd gen with T's and drop a six and 350 in, fun and money nothing beats a 3rd gen unless you like spending money on technology, person a 30+ year run on one engine design kind of out ways the fact that stock you get more for LT or LS, cause we all know how long 3rd gens remain stock


Final - go with 3rd gen with T's and put what you want in it, you'll be happier you did.

PS let us know which way you go in the end.

------------------
1989 GTA 350 TPI - T-tops, dual cats, 9-Bolt aussie 3.27
1992 RS 305 TBI - T-tops, T-5, 3.08 - Sold

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

well i guess i'll add my $.02. I've owned 3 thirdgens and i'm NEVER selling my GTA..i've driven many 4thgens...yeah they are nice but honestly...the 4thgen camaro looks like an elongated geo storm...yes the LT1 has better upper RPM power..but u are sacrificing some low end torque...have fun with that opti-junk The Lt1 doesn't impress me that much...they are good engines but not for all the hype they get. To the person that said he ran a 13.1 with exhaust and cold air i'd ahve to see a time slip to believe that...not calling u a liar just would want to see a slip..anyway....as far as the handling...eh..its a toss up....all i have are koni's all around and a panhard rod and i can outhandle most of the 4thgens out there...and you DON'T have to spend 1200 on a MR or SR to get a TPI to breathe...and actually GM has made a LT1 style intake for a L98(don't know the availibillity of them but i've seen one) Personally i like the look of a thirdgen better...but to each his own...as far as the combo u want...not sure about the camaros but there ARE 91-92 Formy's out there with the 350/ttop combo..again not sure about the camaro. If u are planning on modding the engine and working it i'd go with the 3rdgen...bigger engine compartment and the L98 is easier to work on...if u are leaving it relatively stock and just wanna cruise around i'd go with the 4thgen...if u have your heart set on a 4thgen go for the LS1...a LT1 has NOTHING on a LS1!

I know quite a few people with a L98 mated up to a T-56...VERY nice...if u don't mind doing some work i say get an 89 Iroc(350 ttops auto) or 91-92 Z(305 auto ttops) and drop in a nicely built L98 with a T56. Man its nice spending other peoples $$$

I just wanna make one thing clear to everyone...i don't in anyway hate the 4thgens...i love all fbodys(well most of em ) i just like 3rdgens better..unless its a '00-'01 WS6

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Originating member of the SJNEP Crew
Vice President of the Jersey Fbody Crew(JFA)
Check out MyGTA Nicknamed:The Big Red Machine
***AOL IM RiceEatinGTA***
Moderator at www.transamgta.com
"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

Teddy Z

There are some other nice pros about 4thgens worth mentioning. The fenders and doors are made of some carbon fiber composite - so they won't rust! They have very cool, outta the way T-top holders in the hatch. If it's a V8 model it's got posi.

3rdgens rock too though - in fact, I think all f-bodys rock. I'm contemplating buying a '68 Firebird right now... not a rare car but certainly uncommon and definitely COOL!!!

Ray87Z

LT1s really wake up with a full exhaust. I've heard of many people running low 13s with a full exhaust and a CAI on a 6spd LT1. Although they usually take a couple other pidly mods to hit 13.1s (like reprogrammed comp, pulleys, etc).

Most of the people going on about how much better the Lt1 4thgens are over 3rdgens are comparing a nice 4thgen to their old high mileage 305 TBI or 305 TPI auto car. A nice 91-92 350 TPI would be a better comparison both as far as performance and build quality (improved junk on 91-92s). You would also have a very close race between a 91-92 350 and a LT1 stock for stock, especially if the LT1 is also an auto as well...

For a platform to drop basically any engine in you want, where you want modern looks, good handling, good comfort, etc as well, I don't think you can beat the thirdgen... A mint thirdgen with something hot under the hood is a real attention getter IMO.

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Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited June 29, 2001).]

mtx28

Well, like i said, if i was looking at a thirdgen it would have to be a 91 or 92(i like the older models, but those much more so), but ttops and a manual are musts.. therefore, i started looking at 94-95 models since both can be had. I know that LT-1's arent as easy to work on, but as the L98, they still respond well to exhaust mods and what have you(the LT-1's in camaros were detuned because they came in the corvette first, and the camaro shouldnt compete w/the corvette, so they put a more restrictive exhaust on it). I sat in a 95 model this weekend. it was love at first.. touch. it was an RS model, but since the interiors are the same, i figured i've have a look. i plopped down in the seat and wow, was it comfy I may have said before.. but this car I dont want to buy, and then do a heavy round of mods to get it to be what i want(350/6spd/ttop), i want to start with what i want, and then go from there. I had contemplated an older thirdgen with ttops, but then the tranny situation comes into the picture again. I know that thirdgens are, for reason, cheaper than 4ths, but i think to have what i want and not immdediatly have to modify the car(which i dont mind doing, but i dont want to have to worry about it right off), i think im going to look (more) for a white 94 or 95 car. if i can just find a good site as a resource for info on the LT-1's now... oh yea, here is my 74 that is for sale on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=592950285 anyone interested?

PETE

iTrader: (1)

as long as you are gonna spend the money on a 4th gen take a look around there are a few b4c's running around either 305/5 speeds or 350 autos now i know he wanted t-tops but after a few years you'll wished they were not there.before i bought my two third gens i always thought i would have t-tops they are very weak cars the money you'll spend on frame braces(a really good set not $99 crap bolt ins)and sending out your pcm to get recalibrated(no chips except 93's)you'll have like the song says (a bitchin camaro).i would choose a 90 iroc 1.speed density2.still has the 9 bolt rear(way better than that crappy 10bolt)3.you dont have to be a contortionist to work on them.4.and finally once it's done and you pull up to a 4th gen and smoke his *** yiu have a bigger s.h.i.t eatin grin.one more believe it or not the third gen cars that were raced in the iroc series are aerodynamically superior comparedd to the t/a's they use now.

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87 trans am 350 L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,headers,y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,ported plenum,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt,ads strip chip,relocated iat sensor,hollowed maf

14.10@97mph w/2.01 60'
superram coming soon

camaro6spd

LOL, are you kidding?! God Bless my IROC!

[This message has been edited by camaro6spd (edited July 01, 2001).]

mtx28

many many ways to look at it.. PETE, why do you say that i will wish the ttops werent there after a few years? Has anyone bought a 6spd out of a 4th gen? just curious how much they run