esvsr71

Hi all.



I don't know when this first happened, but yesterday I saw blue smoke coming out of the tailpipes on fireup. Quite a bit in fact. I'm not sure of what to do, but I know that I don't have much cash so I hope whatever has to be done doesn't cost much to be fixed. The car runs fine just that blue smoke I've been told is a real problem. Oh and the car has 10w 30 oil in it. I have a five digit odometer and it reads out 83261 I don't know if that has anything to do with this problem that would be of help or not. Just thought I would throw it in there.

What all do I need to have done to have my car fixed? I was told by a few people I would need to have the engine rebuilt I sure hope not because I can't afford that.

All help is greatly appreciated.
Please help me

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

blue smoke is oil
white is coolant or condensation
black is fuel or carbon or something


is just does on startup then it goes away after it warms up right?


that means your rings are a bit worn then when it heats up they contract and make a better seal. my 305 did the same thing but only if i bought the rpms right after starting it. and my buddies 305 tpi does it on startups.

i wouldnt worry about ti too much, throw in a can of restore and use 20w 50 oil. (run 20w-50 in my 305, ran perfect.)

MikeDirntRulez

Valve stem seals.

Extremely common on these cars and SBCs in general.


You don't need to rebuild the engine, however it is not a DIY job for somebody who isn't a mechanic. Labor will probably cost you around $300 to get it done, but if you research it, you can buy the seals for less than $40, and spend maybe a weekend putting them on, and you're all done!

esvsr71

Thank you for the help

I talked to my mechanic and he said right now since i have 10w 30 in it to keep putting it in until next oil change then put 30 weight in it. Is 30 weight the plain 30W? or is there a different way its written?

Also in the $300 that needs to be spent, what all will be done for that price?

And how long can I keep doing this until it gets to be Critical repair time?

What other danger is there in this?

thanks and please keep sending help

Toehead

Your problem is certainly the valve stem seals, and there is no other danger besides oil consumption. Just make sure you check your oil often, and you wont have a problem. This problem is extremely common on the 305's. My bro's car does the same thing. Unless it really bugs you, i'd just let it go.

R1UK

Valve stem oil seals wearing, were very common here on most Fords for many years.
If you left one for more than a few days the oil running down past the seals was enough to make it look like James Bonds Aston Martin in action.
As long as it goes when its running its not a major concern, and it can happen if you take off, if after say idling at traffic lights, as long as you dont engulf the whole town, dont worry.
The only good point is a little oil running down the bores can lubricate the cylinder bores on start up, something i'm sure the designers did'nt intend.

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

u could run straight 30w.


id run 20 50 though.

1meanGTA

i noticed this for the first time the other day on mine, right at startup. it doesnt do it everytime, must have just started.

i always run 10w-30 mobil 1. about 6 months ago i used the expensive full treatment they have at autozone, z max or something.

since i got it, my car has leaked oil from what i THINK is the timing cover. its splattered up on the block, but doesnt appear to be coming from the heads. it isnt much, i put maybe a bottle of mobile 1 in every 3 or 4 weeks and theres a spot in my garage.

esvsr71

I'll be sure to keep that oil checked on, oh and a friend said he put this in his oil and it stopped smoking. What are your feelings on this product?

http://store1.yimg.com/I/rodi_1859_91721521

If it works as good as he says it does, I might give it a try.

Keep the help coming you have no idea how much I appreciate it

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

restore is pretty good from my experiences.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't use that engine restorer stuff. If anything it will decrease the life of the motor. In a nut shell it has a higher viscosity and will not flow around your motor the same way regular oil does. Therefore it will not provide the oiling needs that your engine requires. That stuff is for dead engines that won't last much longer. You need new valve stem seals and nothing more.

esvsr71

Hey all, I did something I haven't done in a while lol I checked my oil level, and which I was surprised when it showed on the stick - FULL I must have some kind of mini leak or something for it to still read full and yet that blue smoke comes out. Weird. I definitely must say Weird.

Toehead

ya, the valve stem seal leak is a slow one, but it will still add up over time. now that your car does this, it is important to check the oil often. dont forget

Anvil

I would try 10w40 first then 20w50. the 20w50 takes a long time to get around the engine especially when the weather starts to get colder. Both the 20w50 and 10w40 will help get the compression back up,but the 10w40 will circulate a little quicker on start up.

esvsr71

Thanks all, I'm not sure whether to try that additive stuff or not, but I was also told since my odometer is only five digits more than likely my car has over 100,000 miles on it. Some other things I was told was you could get some kind of high mileage motor oil. And to add STP treatment. What do you guys think? A lot of choices and I don't want to make the wrong one and hurt it more than what it is going through right now.

Keep the help coming please, I Thoroughly appreciate it!!

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

My car has 240,000 miles and has done this since about 100,000.
I know a lot of people will disagree with this but, one of the best
GM techs out there (and I'm dead serious this guy has won a corvette and a Z28 from GM in some technician contest they do)
told me to leave it. It is actually good for the motor because there is oil on all the parts on startup. I have never had any problems and my car is driven daily. My

joetiger98

Uhhh I've never heard of an engine smoking to be a good thing.....Blue smoke means oil is getting into where it don't belong, & thats a bad thing. Oil is getting into the combustion chamber, & it don't belong there at all.


Joe

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

yeah but its not a very big deal, and that way u get more oil on the rings.


it probably would help more then hurt, all burning oil would do is burn oil and maybe leave some residue behind no big deal.

Nate86

Can't see how running 20W50 or 10W40 rather than 10W30 would make anything better at all in this scenario.

The 20W50 is way too thick and would reduce engine power trying to squeeze it through the passages inside the engine.

The problem with 10W40 is not its thickness, but the fact that it will break down way faster than 10W30 and sludge up the engine. Remember that the greater the difference between the two numbers in multi-viscosity oils is, the more additives (and consequently, the less oil) are added into the mix in order to keep the oil the proper weight with temperature change. Additives break down and cause sludge in the engine. I suppose if you change your oil often it wouldn't be a problem, but since this problem is pretty much limited to start ups, it kind of defeats the point since they are both 10 weights when cold.

I'd say don't sweat it, so long as it only happens briefly during start up. It is a common problem with these engines, as many have already mentioned. Just check your oil level regularly and keep it in check.

Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

20w 50 will run absolutely fine in a SBC only time i didnt put it in my car was some 10 30 for winter storage.

Nate86

Sure, it will work fine... but why run a thicker oil than necessary and reduce power?

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

u just answered your own question, what would u rather have thin or thick oil protecting your vital engine parts?

Nate86

20W50 is unnecessary in pretty much any engine that come stock in these cars. 10W30 (and even 5W30 is some locations) provides adequate protection without the downside of reduced engine performance from parasitic loss.

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

believe what you want man.

yuel

well for me when my car did blow out smoke, it wasnt that i was concern about the oil in the cylinder, it was kinda of the embarassment of starting the car and leaving a big puff of smoke behind me in public. then i switch to thicker oil, but didnt really help, so i guess the moral of the story is since it doesnt cause serious damage, so get it fixed or leave it alone.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Mine does the same for years now, i don't worry about it at all..!!
I ran it with 20W50 dino oil for years, no powerloss or something.
Than I switched to synthetic 10W60, again no problems.
Two years ago I switched again, to synthetic 0W40, works just fine!!

Red Devil

Why do these types of posts proliferate on these boards still?!?

If you have rings on the way out, you'll know it, you'll engulf your house, and likely the neighborhood in blue smone and stink the place up of burning oil.

If it's seals, it'll 'puff'. You'll see it for a whopping 30 seconds max and you likely won't even notice the missing oil on a 3K change. Nothing to worry about.

Restore is crap. Ask anyone that's opened up one of those poor motors.

Don't do this unless you have an oil heater and time to use it everytime you fire up. That crap on a nice SPRING day will jump right through the bypass. I'd hate to know how long on a winter day it would run unfiltered and slooow and way too thick.

Thanks, but I like my oil filtered and flowing properly. You can run whatever crap you want, but I like my motors lasting well into old age.

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

well u dont have to worry about running oil in a thridgen in winter, cause third gens shouldnt be driven in winter

sellmanb

Continue to use Mobile1 10w30.

30w (HD30w) was made for the cars in like the 50s... if you believe that oil studies and such were just as good in the 50s as they are now days (if it was good enough back then, then it is today too!) then you are MISTAKEN.

The only reason to use anything like 20w50 is if you have excess bearing clearances where the only way to keep your oil pressure in the proper levels is to run a thicker weight, then you should start worrying about an engine rebuild...


You have a problem with valve stem seals... I've included a picture of where the valve stem seals are...

Basically, they cost me less than 30 dollars at autozone, and they were good FelPro positive types (two intake sets).

To do this job it is semi-meticulous... search for Stekman, he has a great write-up on how to do this yourself in his profile if you are semi-mechanically inclined and dont mind buying a couple tools (probably total cost for the tools ~40 max).

if you have more time than money, which seems the case for most of us.. then I'd suggest doing this yourself. It's not that much harder than doing a tune-up. If you dont feel confident in a tune-up, the 300 dollars is not that bad then.


But either way, do not worry about this. I had debated on leaving mine un-touched because it made it easier on the piston rings on startup... but ultimately decided to do them myself since I didnt want the embarressing blue smoke on start up... playfully called "the chevy salute" around here....

sellmanb

oops, forgot picture.

Red Devil

It's not the winter that worries me, it's that waayyyyy too thick oil.

On normal days it probably jumps through the bypass. It probably heats up excessivly at times and more than likely isn't providing lubrication as well as a lighter weight oil would... unless your bearing clearances are excessive, in which case your engine builder screwed up or it's close to time for a rebuild.

Your advice on oil is something that I hope no one on this board takes.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

@Red Devil, the advice from Borsty isn't all that bad!
Educate yourself on lubrication a bit, and you'll understand why.....!!
Again, when I used my Bird as a daily driver, I used 20W50 dino oil, and I drove my car hard, very hard (European style....!!)
Now that I use it only for show purposes, and hardly make any miles today, it's filled with 0W40 Synthetic....!
Know what you're talking about....!!

Borsty

iTrader: (2)

ive known people with hondas running 20 50 with no problems after about 30k on it.


i will always use 20 50 in a v8, my dad has been using 20 50 since 78 with his pontiac 400. running 20 50 in a v8 (unless some small v8 like a tarus SHO or something) is complete safe.

u keep listening to the manufacturer of our cars for oil advice, ill go off of my own hands on experiences.

im am finished adding my thoughts to this post. good day.

esvsr71

I think I'll take this route, the car does exactly like he says puff for about 30 secs then gone.

Also that Restore stuff sounds like bad news.
One thing though, I was told was you could get some kind of high mileage motor oil. And to add STP treatment. I saw some kind of 75-100,000 mile mobil oil I think on tv. What are your feelings on that? Oh and is synthetic better or stay with regular Pennzoil?

Keep the help coming please I'm finding all this fascinating and I hope I learn something from all this.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Don't use aditives, they destroy the balance of your oil.Use any well known brand oil, and change it regulary, like every 4000 mls, or at least twice a year, when the car is used as a daily driver.
And do change the oilfilter at every oilchange!
As for synthetic versus dyno, there are very good dyno oils and very bad synthetics.....and vice versa.
I like synthetic oil, because it acts like a conservation oil when the car is not in use for longer periodes (like my car does...)
But besides that, synthetic is generaly speaking, superior over dyno oil in every aspect, only drawback is cost.....!
Look at www.redlineoil.com for more info about synthetic oil.
(btw, I'm not using Redline, but German made Castrol fully synthetic...)

sellmanb

Pennzoil and Quaker State are one in the same now seeing as Quaker State bought them out.... I dont know about you, but I know that I wouldnt put Quaker State in my motor... nor would I put pennzoil in there. Quaker State full synthetic still isnt even a true synthetic. The Pennzoil Platinum or whatever is the same quality.


20w50 is thicker than diesel motor oil!

I quote "u keep listening to the manufacturer of our cars for oil advice, ill go off of my own hands on experiences."

You're right... what do our car manufacturers know about what bearing clearances they put in our cars stock?

I dont know what kind of education you've been blessed with regarding oil studies, but your views on the thicker the weight oil the better is intriguing... would 85w90 GL5 be better? Perhaps you should ask Five7Kid a couple things about motor oil... I believe he is a vendor for AMSOIL after all.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

85W90 GL5 gear oil has about the same viscosity like 10W40 engine oil, but is made for totaly different purposes....
Not a very good idea to compare those.........
But again, lubrication is hard to understand.....

Red Devil

90w wear oil has the same viscocity as 10w30 motor oil?

Hondas and 20w50. I fail to see the relevance to this conversation never mind this board. And why would a 20w50 work well in a 5.7l but not a 3.4l v-8??

Let me just address the fallacious (in my mind) statements made with regard to the 20w50 argument. The weight of the oil does not mean t lubricates better. If that were the case we’d be using 90w gear oil instead of 10w30.

Dutch, I know more than I want with regard to lubrication, however, I’ll take that comment to mean that you want me to learn about maybe film strength… ok, do you really think that the miniscule difference in film strength makes up for the atrocious cold start characteristics and loss of filtering? The answer would be no.

Drag on the skirt and rings? Yep, 20w50 can do that. Again, by the time it gets up there though to offer the ‘better’ protection and increased drag, the 10w30 would have already been there for some significant time (contextually).

Or perhaps you mean maintaining a low speed hydrodynamic bearing film. Well, honestly that issue has primarily revolved around 0 weight oils, but I’ll drag it into this discussion… No wait, I can’t. The lighter weight oil will get in there quicker and probably maintain it’s film as well as a thicker weight oil… except of course when the clearances are larger than spec.

Or maybe you are even trying to make reference to shear strength. Again, the difference is negligible (unless comparing 10w30 synthetic to dyno 20w50, the synth kicks ***) but during a cold start up (which does not mean cold outdoor temperature) the inclusions that would be in the 20w50 would likely reduce the shear strength of the oil until the oil thinned enough to be filtered.

But, maybe you need to hear it from someone other than me…

Lets not get into the fact that 20w50 has more viscosity index improvers in it than 10w30. That means that more actual lubricant is displaced in favor of the VIIs.

Now the last bit of info is the most important. 20w50 was used throughout the 60’s and 70’s. There was a reason it was phased out as recommendations in the warrantied automobiles of the 80’s. Tolerances had (and have) since increased (as clearances decreased)… hope I said that right… anyway, 20w50 was no longer needed. If you feel like running it, feel free, I certainly won’t… except in my POS 250,000 mi oil burning yard truck.

My NSHO anyway.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well, you still don't get it........

Nate86

I don't see what there is to "get." He pretty much told us everything we need to know about running 20W50 in one of these cars stock. When you run 20W50 in these cars with stock engines, you are losing power and lubrication protection. What is 20W50's advantage over a less weight, especially when engine protection is not?

Sorry, I guess you just don't get it.

Rick King

your car is ok --burningoil is just something all motors will and or do--check it often and if you do put in new seals I recomend removing the heads and have them freshened up. make sure all the springs speck out and have a valve job done, this can make a world of differance

just my $0.02 later and

GB

rick

roughskinjrz

ok so my car has blue smoking out of the exhaust not until like 20 minutes after the motor is running, it will idle blue smoke and when i punch the throttle a cloud comes out. do you think this is rings? or seals?

and do you have to remove the motor to change the rings?

Stekman

Have you even done the other things we suggested?