Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Emissions and streetability are NOT a concern. Neither is vacuum. Thinking of going w/ a solid roller but wondering if it would be worth the money. Currently I'm running a cc306.
230/244 on a 112 and
.544/.576 lift w/ my rockers.
I want to make more power but more importantly, I want a quicker ET. This is a manual car w/ 4.11's and will be using a 28" tire. At the strip, I will also be running a 300 shot of n2o.

If I've left anything out, then just ask. Check sig for current time.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Can't answer about the "worth the money" part; of course I'll say that it is, because it's somebody else's money.

But that aside, you can get FAR better performance in every way out of a solid roller than a hyd one. Be prepared though, to make some substantial upgrades to the rest of the valve train; springs most especially.

How much quicker do you want to go, and how much money would it have to cost to no longer be "worth it"?

What induction does it have? i.e., how hog-wild can you go, and it still work?

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Static Compression is 10.18:1
Dynamic compression is 7.58:1

Heads
Aluminum Protopline 200cc intake runner and 64cc chamber
2.02/1.60 valves 0.100 longer than stock
Valve springs comp cams 26987 121/388#
7/16 screw in studs, guide plates
ARP head bolts
From Protopline’s website @ 28” of water
Intake exhaust
.200 – 146.41 101
.300 – 203.72 156.94
.400 – 249.84 176.85
.500 – 260.51 186.34
.600 – 268.51 190.16
.700 – 276.41 194.87

I'm using the HSR intake w/ a 58mm TB. Basically, I've been told that I could make more power/go faster w/ my current set up and I'd like to get all I can out of it.
Too much money would be over 1000. Which means if the "conversion" to a solid roller is over that, then I probably won't do it.

How much quicker? As fast as I can w/ these heads. I like these heads and intake and would like to keep them. I bought the 230/244 cam back when I was slapping the motor together. I'd like a 11.50's all day everyday. Even when it's 100*s out and the track is a little greasy. Which means in good weather, faster than 11.50. Sorry for the open ended question, but if you can give me a cam solid or not that'll give me a low 11 on motor, the $1000 budget gets thrown out the window, along w/ the old 306 cam.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

The cc306 is an old design camshaft. Some of the newer Crane/GM cams are better such as the 0846 or 0847. They are hydaulic roller cams though. If streetability and emissions are of no concern, go with a solid roller single pattern duration in the 238-244 range. That cc306 isn't really extreme, it is meant for nitrous applications or engines with poor exhaust or heads with bad flowing exhaust. Not for an engine with those heads.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Your valve springs are NOWHERE NEAR enough for a solid roller; not even a gentle little street roller. You'd need 1.55" springs with around 175-200 lbs on the seat and near 500 open. So those would need changed out. That might require machine work to the heads.

Those heads have a relatively poor E/I flow ratio, at about 70-71%. I'd recommend sticking with a dual pattern cam for that reason alone. However, add 300 HP of nitrous, and you need EVEN MORE bias toward exhaust; you can't jam any more IN, until you move the used-up stuff OUT. And you've got an extra 300 HP worth of spent stuff to clear out.

I'd say you'll have a real tough time doing a solid roller for $1000 from return lane with the 306 to staging lane with a solid.

Also, the HSR doesn't support really massive huge flow; you've pretty near maxed it out, as it is. I don't agree that there's alot left in it.

And, for a bigger cam, you'd need more compression. IMO you already are at the low end of the range of suitable CR for the cam you've got now.

In a word, I think that you've taken most of what you have under the hood, about as far as it's going to go, mechanically; and that it will end up being ALOT more than $1000 to make much of an upgrade.

Of course, alot of what you have could be sold, which would help out on the $$$$ end of things. I don't know about bringing it down to $1000 though.

Looking at your ET and mph, you're picking up 25-6 mph from 1/8 to 1/4. Seems like kind of alot. One would ordinarily expect more like 22-23 mph or so. Usually indicates a poor 60' or soggy leave, and then good HP farther down the track. Your thoughts?

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

1st, let me say thanks to both replies.

Sofa, I'm not sure why I pick up so much mph in the big end. I can only suspect that it's b/c I'm a manual car. My 60' was a 1.57. I shift around 6k.

As for the solid roller: it sounds like your telling me I'm maxing out what I have (cam/intake). Which is fine, I just wanted to know if changing the cam would be an improvement worth trying out. I agree w/ you about my compression. It is low, but I didn't want to mess w/ milling the heads or 0 decking the block incase something 'bad' happened on the jug.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This brings me to my next question which I've asked on other boards, but haven't had a lot of luck w/. I've been poking around and trying to get information about big cube sbc's w/ 18-15* setups. (I know, your thinking, "where the hell did that come from"). But I've been thinking about selling my motor complete and going w/ a 15* single plane EFI. Yes it's expensive. But from the sale of the boat anchor, I'd be able to pick up a block and put a down payment on a set of heads. This would definately put me into the 10's on motor.

Basically, I'm tired of going slow.

your thoughts? proven combos always welcome.

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

or not...

vortecfcar

I dont know if you've considered this option, but a carburated LS1 would be fairly inexpensive compared to a traditional 15* aluminum small block. The ignition setup, a couple new motor mounts (?), and a th400 built for an LS1 (which can be found cheaply used on LS1tech.com) would be a lethal and cool looking setup. A lot of low cost, High flow heads and monster cam packages that will get you into the 11's no sweat.

-just an option.

You could pick up a long block used without electronics for a good price if you know where to look.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422476

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

11's? I'm running that now w/ some off the shelf 23* crap.
I'm not even going to get started how much an LS1 swap would cost.
The tranny, When it's all said and done, a th400 is close to a $3000 swap in a 4thgen. I already have a tranny.

Thanks anyway for you input, but I'm looking to go 10.0 on motor if I go w/ 15* heads.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I really don't see that the cam is your limit, as it stands. i.e. changing it won't have alot of effect.

What RPM does it trap at?

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

right now I'm spinning ~6200rpm thru the traps w/ a 26" tire. I've seen that cam in lt1's (which is what it was designed for) trap at 118-119.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You have an intake with longer runners than the LT1 one. I doubt it's going to make power at as high RPM as the LT1 will.

But, you might want to try a chassis dyno; and see where it makes power, where it falls off, and if you can pick up anything by playing with the fuel and timing curves. It just seems to me like it should ET better than it is, at that mph. You should be able to get a couple more tenths out of it with engine tuning, or chassis tuning, or driver technique, or something.

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

This was after the dyno tune durring a 102* day. Yes, it was very hot.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Saying that the HSR does not support huge flow from an as cast form is very inaccurate. The manifold stock will flow 275 cfm. To help put that into perspective, a tpi manifold stock will flow about 200cfm, A Performer RPM will flow 286 and a victor Jr will flow 275. The Super ram fully ported and radiused and honed can do 275cfm. So the HSR is a good manifold I know, I ran it on one of my past engines.

The Pro Toplines are a great head also. They should not be looked at as a head with a "poor" I/E ratio. If that is poor then the only good unported head out there would be an AFR. I agree though that if he is to have nitrous, a dual pattern cam is a wise decision.

If you are looking to gain more time, I would say try a different cam, with a newer design and look at traction and strengthening the body. People have managed to get TPI's into the 12's with a stock Shortblock. They just concentrate on traction and strength. Mike Davis went 11's on a HSR with a LT4 hot cam'd 355 with tfs unported heads. Many other people are able to get 11's and low 12's as well with mild street cams (under 230* duration). I would also look at weight savings.